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  1.    #1  
    Hello,

    I know this is my first post, and I promise I did not just come here to troll/complain. I honestly have been lusting after the Palm Pre since the CES 2009 announcement. So, when my Verizon account came up for upgrade last Friday, I was psyched. Even more, by the time I ordered my phone on Monday, the price had dropped to $80 (boo-yeah!) on an alleged one day sale. So, I received the phone late yesterday and unfortunately, ever since them, my excitement has only been continuously eroded by many "seriously?" and "are you kidding me?" moments. This is a phone I loved before I even met it (I think I probably read almost every review of it published), but honestly since I have been using it, it seems to almost be daring me to hate it.

    OK, a little about me. I am upgrading from a Blackberry Curve 8330 (the best bb available on Verizon the last time I came up for my last upgrade). I liked the phone, especially the intuitive features. However, Blackberry's lack of being able to use the "real" web, and lack of simple things like threaded (or even decent) SMS was a real hindrance on my 8330.

    So, after nearly a day with the Pre Plus, I am almost shocked at the things it can't do. Like:

    1. Select multiple emails. You know, to delete, mark as read, etc. Basic functions I do at least daily.

    2. Spell check for emails (one of my bigger, "are you kidding me's?").

    3. Auto-correction that makes sense (seriously, I know you think MS always means Ms., but for me it means Microsoft 99.999% of the time).

    4. Have normal build-quality and feel for a device of this caliber (I am shocked that the sharp edges made it past prototype). If it is a duck, it *has* to look like a duck, quack like a duck, and FEEL like a duck.

    5. Simple keyboard conveniences (double space for period, hold letter for capital, etc.). I know these are bb things, but they seem pretty obvious, at least to me.

    6. Ability to manage email better. This one has been discussed ad nausium, so I won't parrot what has already been said. In my own experience, though, for the one email I took the time to write on the pre (curse you, #2), I got an error when I sent it. Not only that, I cannot get it back to re-send. It has disappeared into the Palmosphere. Outbox? Nope. Sent items? Nope. Anywhere on Gmail? Nope. Ugh.

    7. Mediocre (at best) phone call quality. I often have had to put on a headset to understand the person on the other line (especially when cell to cell, carrier to carrier). Now I am not expecting hifi sound quality through the earpiece, but I was expecting something north of Burger Barn drive-through speaker.

    8. No user guide. This is amazing to me. For a device this revolutionary (from an OS/Interface perspective), I am amazed that there are not reference materials in the box. I consider myself a pretty sharp spoon with these sorts of things, and I have done no less than 20 Google searches in the last day figuring out how to do something (usually simple somethings). Even the icons used from everything from email (paper airplane to send?) to the app store are confusing. Most of these make sense in hindsight, but should you really have to push the buttons to find out what they do?

    9. No/crippled GPS. Now, I understand that this may just me a v. 1.4 thing (and is, historically, one of the more annoying things about Verizon), but this just makes no sense. Even the guided setup talks about location services (and location-aware apps) quite a bit. So, I would imagine, that most folks would actually expect this to work.

    10. Lack of a sensical "settings" screen. Why spread settings so far out? Even more, why make everything so automatic and non-configurable? As one small example, you can't delete facebook friends from your contacts. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I want my contacts list to be automatically bloated with tons of people I will never call/email/text, and will only make my contacts more cluttered. Thanks for that.

    11. No process indicator that says something is happening (like app is loading, etc.). Since the accuracy of any touch screen will never be 100% for everyone, it would be nice to have feedback that something is happening (and further tapping is not required).

    Maybe I am just an oddball, but this device is one of the more confusing I have used. I know the Pre is not for everyone, and I know that the simple answer to most would be to just go buy a tour (or droid or whatever). The problem is, at least for me, is that there is so much the pre does right (at least in concept), that is so revolutionary and compelling, that these gaps in sensical execution are baffling. Plus, now that the Pre Plus is down to $50 (and it's "killer app" of shared 3G connectivity over wifi is now free) I wonder if the Palm death knellers might be right (something that I would hate to admit). This is a company that I have nothing but exceptional experiences with before, which makes me want to ask "Who are you, and what have you done with the real Palm?".

    Lastly, and maybe this is just a personal preference, but where are the product evangelists? Where is all of the community involvement that is almost required in most of today's advanced consumer markets? Like most people, I found almost all of the advertising Palm has done so far to be just plain odd and ineffective to the point of actually making me lose interest in the product/brand, but TiVo did this too (with a product with similar revolutionary potential). However, they nailed the execution (at least in the earlier days), and they had people engaging with their most enthusiastic and influential customers. The Pre had unprecedented hype leading up to its launch. Why was that just left to drop (along with customer goodwill and expectations)?

    Anyway, my motivation here is really not to bury the Pre. If there are loads of people out there who think it is the bee's knees for their own use, that is awesome. My problem is that the things that have been overlooked just seem so basic. Sure, incredible features will make your sales-slick/press-packet look compelling, but it is in the actual experience where devices either shine or not (and build a following or not). At the end of the day, I guess I am just shocked that the device is not more than it is.

    So, with this being a pre fan forum, feel free to throw your spears. This is just my experience, and although I think these things are basic, others may experience something different. I mainly put this out there to talk about what I think are fairly obvious things that I don't see being discussed. Thanks for reading.


    Best,

    John
  2. #2  
    You seem to want a BB, and not a Pre. While that's OK, I don't think you should blast the Pre for not being a BB.

    And from reading your post, that's the impression I got.

    A stock Pre is designed for the "every day" user, who needs 1 or 2 email accounts, needs to text, needs to make calls, and that's it. You obviously need more than that, which is available through patches.

    I'm probably not saying anything you didn't already know, but there it is.
  3. benly52's Avatar
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    #3  
    If you were so in need of an email-strengthed phone you should have stayed with blackberry.
  4. #4  
    Well for starters you're not coming here about "IPHONE RULZZZ!!!!111oneone".

    It does seem like you need an e-mail device, maybe even a Peek would be better fit for you. And you're right, BlackBerry's email is way better, they're they expert, they've been doing it for years, so there's no argument on that.

    Although I'm not sure about your items 7-11

    7. I actually experience better call quality than I used to. I'm sure it's not my phone, I have an Nokia E51, one of Nokia's enterprise devices. But then this thing is really dependent on network as well.

    8. Palm's full user guide is available on Palm's website. It's actually very common for electronic devices to come with just a quick setup guide.

    9. I personally used the Google Maps on mine, it seems like it's really dependent on the network. I sometimes have it lock like in an instant, sometimes it just timeout. But when it works it's really accurate.

    10. That's why we have Preware But I agree, they tried the Mac way too hard, the "everything is configured for you", definitely something Palm can polish on in the next release

    11. I'm actually fine with the cards system. Icon with a swirling wheel, pretty much equivalent to the wheel and hourglass on Windows.

    What you should do it submit it to Palm. They have a mailbox for product suggestions.

    Good luck with the new phone.
    Palm IIIc -> Sony CLIÉ T650C -> Sony TJ-37 -> Palm TX -> Palm Centro -> Palm Pre Bell -> Palm Pre Plus Bell/Verizon Hybrid -> HP Veer -> HP Pre 3 NA -> BlackBerry Classic -> BlackBerry Priv

    It's a Late Goodbye, such a Late Goodbye.

    Need OEM Palm Pre parts? See here
  5. #5  
    Wow, I think we need to talk. Some of your issues are handled by preware patches and apps (such as slelecting multiple e-mails, etc. That also answers your last point, which is evangelists andcommunity involvement. Look around and you will see the community providing amazing stuff like Preware and QuickInstall, rock solid enhancements like the 800Mhz overclock, etc.

    The community support and enhancements here at PreCentral are amazing.

    Most of these guys do it on a volunteer basis, and can't even cover their costs with the donations they receive.

    Some of your issues are still a problem, but this is the right community to help you through them, and find the best ways to enjoy your Pre.

    I hope you will look around the forum, and PM me or anyone else that you think can help you get a jump start.

    I have a Pre+ and a BlackBerry Curve, so I can confidently say that once you add a few mods to your Pre and learn a few twists to the interface, you will be a very happy camper.

    I carry the Pre because I've never used a BlackBerry that had decent call quality. Everyone I talk to says that the call quality on my Pre is better than any of my previous phones.

    I will grant that the hardware isn't quite as refined, but that will happen over time. Blackberry has been refining their hardware for years. Remember how awkward they used to be? Blackberry only does one thing well, and that is e-mail. That's all I use my Curve for - because my company requires it. My pre let's me tether to the internet, has a world-class browser, a fantastic community for support and development. Palm has always done contact management and calendar better than anyone, and the Pre does almost everything I want in that area - notable exception is the lack of "categories" to organize contacts...

    Hang in there, mate. WebOS rox0rz!
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 04/01/2010 at 01:10 PM.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by callmechewy View Post
    You seem to want a BB, and not a Pre. While that's OK, I don't think you should blast the Pre for not being a BB.

    And from reading your post, that's the impression I got.

    A stock Pre is designed for the "every day" user, who needs 1 or 2 email accounts, needs to text, needs to make calls, and that's it. You obviously need more than that, which is available through patches.

    I'm probably not saying anything you didn't already know, but there it is.
    This.
  7. #7  
    yeah...

    blackberry is good about typing and keyboarding. That's what they do best...
  8. hegemon13's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    10. Lack of a sensical "settings" screen. Why spread settings so far out? Even more, why make everything so automatic and non-configurable? As one small example, you can't delete facebook friends from your contacts. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I want my contacts list to be automatically bloated with tons of people I will never call/email/text, and will only make my contacts more cluttered. Thanks for that.
    I, too, freaked out about my Facebook contacts importing into my contact list. Then I calmed down, explored the settings, and removed them. The procedure is not immediately obvious, so here it is:

    1. Open the Contacts app.
    2. Tap the Contacts tab in the upper-left corner of the screen.
    3. In the menu that pops up, tap Preferences & Accounts.
    4. In the Accounts section, tap Facebook.
    5. Tap Remove Account.

    This will remove all your Facebook contacts. It does NOT sign you out of the Facebook app or affect other apps, such as Calendar.

    Hope that helps!
  9. #9  
    8: Check out the ON-PHONE-HELP utility, accessible from the top left drag-down menu in all of the stock apps. It's extremely thorough!!

    Also - as far as having a cluttered contact list - you should not EVER have to open that contact list!! You do know about quicklaunch right? from the unlocked home screen, the cards view, or with the launcher pulled up - just start typing! this goes for apps, webpages, and contacts!! When in doubt swipe up into card view and just start typing
  10.    #10  
    I definitely had no intent to "blast" the pre. Again, if it works for you, I think that is great. Plus, my comments were with regard to my experience with a Verizon Palm Pre Plus. In understand the experience can vary from carrier to carrier, that makes total sense.

    However, with regard to the just sticking with a blackberry, I definitely understand the recommendation. However, the fact remains that bb stinks when it comes to the real web and sms. This is something that the pre, iphone, and even several android devices absolutely nail. And for me, at least in this day and age, not integrating well with the web is something that just doesn't fly anymore. Just my $.02.

    With regard to the email features, maybe I ask for too much. However, at I like to think my expectations are pretty basic. No, I do not expect an Outlook 2007 clone I can walk around with in my pocket. However, I do expect at least basic features that even most webmail interfaces support. Like the spell check thing. I mean, who uses email professionally that does not spell check before sending? I can understand leaving this out (although it would be nice) for IM and SMS where shorter messages are the norm. For emails, though, it just seems odd, at least to me.

    With regard to the "community" and "evangelist" comments, I was actually referring to Palm, not this site. Why are there people from Palm (and not just developers) "out there" in communities like these, continuously interacting and showing their appreciation? Where are the people from Palm acting as two-way conduits from you to them? IMO, this site is *awesome*, and the dedication, innovation, and helpful nature of the residents here is plainly obvious (and frankly amazing). I have learned a ton from this site, and I definitely consider it the premium resource for this type of information.

    However, I would ask the question, even though these phenomenal resources are here, why would someone need to find these things to do fairly basic, professional things with a device (especially one that does not even come with a user guide)? I can understand the need for external resources for those who want to turn their devices up to 11. But for basic things like managing contacts and email, or overriding common settings and preferences, why would one nearly have to find these resources here?

    Now, please don’t get me wrong. I think what is done here is incredible. What I question is the dependence the basic Palm experience has on self-service, of finding the answers to your own questions. Most people I know just looking for a professional device would not bother. They need their device to support their work, and their appetite for supporting their device (that is supposed to be supporting them) is typically very low.

    Anyway, again, I do not mean to insult anyone. This is just my experience, albeit one that I think would be basic for many professional users (who lean on these types of devices for their work). Thank you to all who make this community so great.


    Best,

    John
  11. Maturin's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post

    10. eah, I want my contacts list to be automatically bloated with tons of people I will never call/email/text, and will only make my contacts more cluttered. Thanks for that.
    Welcome to WebOS, John

    Just wanted to chime in with an example of how I use my phone...

    Universal Search. Just open the keyboard and start typing the name of the person you want to contact. Then tap the method you want to use to contact them.
    This works even better if you type the first letter of a name followed by the last name. Typing "john" will bring up everyone in your list named john, but type "jsmith" and John Smith will be the only one to pop up.

    I haven't opened the contacts app (except to link contacts) in a LONG time.

    Universal Search really cuts through the clutter.

    Enjoy!
    HP Touchpad: I just cant quit you, baby.
  12. #12  
    I was going to address the Facebook contact issue, but someone just beat me to it.

    The GPS on my Sprint Pre works great. There have been numerous threads discussion Verizon GPS issues.

    Many of these things actually *have* been discussed on here (some discussed to death), but it was long ago and they are buried under tons of newer posts.

    My biggest advice: give it some time. I think once you get a better feel for things, you'll enjoy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maturin View Post
    I haven't opened the contacts app (except to link contacts) in a LONG time.

    Universal Search really cuts through the clutter.
    Absolutely. One of the first things I did was replace the contacts icon on the quicklaunch bar with messaging. With the contacts app having no way to quickly find someone without typing their name, there is no reason not to just use universal search instead.
  13.    #13  
    I appreciate the replies regarding the contacts, that makes sense. However, maybe this is just the consultant in me, but I question cluttering up anything unnecessarily. It just feels inefficient, which is probably 90% of my problem with it. I am sure you are all right, that for practical purposes it is largely a moot point. Thanks for chiming in.


    Best,

    John
  14. #14  
    If you " read almost every review of it published," didn't you know it didn't have these features out of the box?
  15. Speebs's Avatar
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    #15  
    I am with this guy. Blackberry has good email features, and the Pre should mimic them. Just because it's meant for the "everyday" user doesn't mean it has to be gimpy.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    1. Select multiple emails. You know, to delete, mark as read, etc. Basic functions I do at least daily.
    There was a screenshot posted on a website a while ago that hinted multiple selection may be coming in the future

    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    3. Auto-correction that makes sense (seriously, I know you think MS always means Ms., but for me it means Microsoft 99.999% of the time).
    There an app: AutoCorrectEdit that can customize the autocorrect dictionary for you

    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    7. Mediocre (at best) phone call quality. I often have had to put on a headset to understand the person on the other line (especially when cell to cell, carrier to carrier). Now I am not expecting hifi sound quality through the earpiece, but I was expecting something north of Burger Barn drive-through speaker.
    People have told me contrary, saying they get surprising good quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    8. No user guide. This is amazing to me. For a device this revolutionary (from an OS/Interface perspective), I am amazed that there are not reference materials in the box. I consider myself a pretty sharp spoon with these sorts of things, and I have done no less than 20 Google searches in the last day figuring out how to do something (usually simple somethings). Even the icons used from everything from email (paper airplane to send?) to the app store are confusing. Most of these make sense in hindsight, but should you really have to push the buttons to find out what they do?
    User guide is online

    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    9. No/crippled GPS. Now, I understand that this may just me a v. 1.4 thing (and is, historically, one of the more annoying things about Verizon), but this just makes no sense. Even the guided setup talks about location services (and location-aware apps) quite a bit. So, I would imagine, that most folks would actually expect this to work.
    I think it's just the verizon devices that have gps issues. There's a guide on the forums on how to enable other gps modes that can drastically improve gps reception.

    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    11. No process indicator that says something is happening (like app is loading, etc.). Since the accuracy of any touch screen will never be 100% for everyone, it would be nice to have feedback that something is happening (and further tapping is not required).
    Since webOS 1.4, there is a loading splash screen. Other than that, virtually every app I know of has some process indicator.



    And as for the Palm evangelists, they're mainly on this forum, in IRC, and especially on twitter.
    If you've liked my software, please consider to towards future development.

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  17. Maturin's Avatar
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    #17  
    I suppose its a matter of personal preference, then. To me, Universal Search makes the phone so much more efficient. Just swipe up from the gesture area to get to card view, open the slider and start typing. Don't have to mess with menus, lists, or any of that...

    As for points 1-7, I tend to agree. Though its not bad for me, as I'm an excellent speller. And the only email I've had error out on me, I had tried to attach like 10 photos to it... mightve been asking too much.
    HP Touchpad: I just cant quit you, baby.
  18.    #18  
    Quite a good question, which is one of the reasons why I am surprised the experience has been so different than it has. However, in hindsight, it is amazing how few reviews even talk about call quality, or you know, actually using the phone as a telephone.

    In fact, I am a little shocked that more reviewers did not experience the same things I did if they truly spent as much time with the phone as they said they did. Perhaps that is the real lesson here, to not be so trusting of "professional" reviews and instead spend more time reading what the real users are saying (in places such as this).


    Best,

    John
  19. #19  
    Just hope to help a little with some of your issues.

    No manual: When you first setup your phone, a video plays and in the end it reminds you that there is an app called "help" on the phone. That is your manual. I do agree that the actual pdf file of the full manual is hard to find on Palm's website, and I never knew it exists before I joined PreCentral. Now that, is something Palm didn't do right.

    About text input.
    Long press for capital letters and double space for a period mark? I think that really is a BB thing, and this is the first time I've heard of it. The Palm way of doing it is, once you type a period mark followed by a space, the next letter is automatically capitalized. I feel that this is more intuitive for people who has never used mobile devices.

    Different OS's are designed with different logic behind it. Try making the jump from Windows to a Mac! But I do agree that there's still somethings Palm has to fix, such as spell checker.

    Hope you'll like it once you get used to it!
  20. #20  
    I'll give it a shot. See embedded comments


    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    Hello,

    I know this is my first post, and I promise I did not just come here to troll/complain. I honestly have been lusting after the Palm Pre since the CES 2009 announcement. So, when my Verizon account came up for upgrade last Friday, I was psyched. Even more, by the time I ordered my phone on Monday, the price had dropped to $80 (boo-yeah!) on an alleged one day sale. So, I received the phone late yesterday and unfortunately, ever since them, my excitement has only been continuously eroded by many "seriously?" and "are you kidding me?" moments. This is a phone I loved before I even met it (I think I probably read almost every review of it published), but honestly since I have been using it, it seems to almost be daring me to hate it.

    OK, a little about me. I am upgrading from a Blackberry Curve 8330 (the best bb available on Verizon the last time I came up for my last upgrade). I liked the phone, especially the intuitive features. However, Blackberry's lack of being able to use the "real" web, and lack of simple things like threaded (or even decent) SMS was a real hindrance on my 8330.

    So, after nearly a day with the Pre Plus, I am almost shocked at the things it can't do. Like:

    1. Select multiple emails. You know, to delete, mark as read, etc. Basic functions I do at least daily.


    Yeah, pain in the ****...especially if you are using POP and deleting on a desktop client doesn't delete them on your phone. I switched to IMAP just for this reason. That helps. I tend to keep up with my email during the day, but I can always use a desktop to clean things up. That said, do you know that you can swipe a message, not answer the delete question, and just keep swiping when you want to delete multiple messages? That approach works in pretty much all WebOS list views. I don't mean to insult you or dilute your point, but a friend with a new pixie didn't even know that swiping existed...and was opening each message to delete it.




    2. Spell check for emails (one of my bigger, "are you kidding me's?").

    Yeah. Not there. Sort of lame. I expect we will see something from Palm or someone else in the future.



    3. Auto-correction that makes sense (seriously, I know you think MS always means Ms., but for me it means Microsoft 99.999% of the time).

    Patches exist to modify the autocorrect DB. Would be nice if it was built in. we lost a lot when we went from PalmOS to WebOS. Fortunately, we gained some things too.


    4. Have normal build-quality and feel for a device of this caliber (I am shocked that the sharp edges made it past prototype). If it is a duck, it *has* to look like a duck, quack like a duck, and FEEL like a duck.

    Personal preference. You can get a Pixie for a BBerry look and feel. the Pre tries to provide the best of both worlds - a full screen and a physical keyboard...and their implementation involves sharp edges. Happens...and not to just Palm:

    How to File the Sharp Edge Off a MacBook Pro - MacBook Pro - Lifehacker

    Perhaps that would work.



    5. Simple keyboard conveniences (double space for period, hold letter for capital, etc.). I know these are bb things, but they seem pretty obvious, at least to me.

    Sound great. Could be candidates for a patch. We had such things on PalmOS. That said, a good developer using the WebOS fields properly when designing an app can really help here...since many capitalize (or switch to numeric) when configured properly.


    6. Ability to manage email better. This one has been discussed ad nausium, so I won't parrot what has already been said. In my own experience, though, for the one email I took the time to write on the pre (curse you, #2), I got an error when I sent it. Not only that, I cannot get it back to re-send. It has disappeared into the Palmosphere. Outbox? Nope. Sent items? Nope. Anywhere on Gmail? Nope. Ugh.

    Haven't struggled here. Works well for me.


    7. Mediocre (at best) phone call quality. I often have had to put on a headset to understand the person on the other line (especially when cell to cell, carrier to carrier). Now I am not expecting hifi sound quality through the earpiece, but I was expecting something north of Burger Barn drive-through speaker.

    Seems to be device-specific. I had to replace my Pre and the call quality was much better on the replacement unit. That said, as many have said, most smartphones don't do well in this respect:

    Call Quality Down for Smartphones, Verizon High Customer Rankings, Says J.D. Power - WIRELESS AND MOBILE NEWS



    8. No user guide. This is amazing to me. For a device this revolutionary (from an OS/Interface perspective), I am amazed that there are not reference materials in the box. I consider myself a pretty sharp spoon with these sorts of things, and I have done no less than 20 Google searches in the last day figuring out how to do something (usually simple somethings). Even the icons used from everything from email (paper airplane to send?) to the app store are confusing. Most of these make sense in hindsight, but should you really have to push the buttons to find out what they do?

    Yeah...it needs one. There are videos, but perhaps it should ship with a DVD. I was shocked at what my friend with the new Pixie did not know.



    9. No/crippled GPS. Now, I understand that this may just me a v. 1.4 thing (and is, historically, one of the more annoying things about Verizon), but this just makes no sense. Even the guided setup talks about location services (and location-aware apps) quite a bit. So, I would imagine, that most folks would actually expect this to work.

    Works fine for me...and I use it a lot...including using location-based reminder apps like GeoStrings and GeoTasks. SprintNav is also awesome...and free...but that doesn't help you.



    10. Lack of a sensical "settings" screen. Why spread settings so far out? Even more, why make everything so automatic and non-configurable? As one small example, you can't delete facebook friends from your contacts. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I want my contacts list to be automatically bloated with tons of people I will never call/email/text, and will only make my contacts more cluttered. Thanks for that.

    After using the phone for awhile, you may just discover that you don't ever even go into the contacts app. Universal search is your friend...and you can create a launcher page of just contacts as well for frequently contacted folks. The LaunchPad app makes such a page even slicker...as do patches that allow you to add more pages to the launcher.



    11. No process indicator that says something is happening (like app is loading, etc.). Since the accuracy of any touch screen will never be 100% for everyone, it would be nice to have feedback that something is happening (and further tapping is not required).

    Not true. There are many. It's up to a dev to decide when to use them, but I see them all the time.




    Maybe I am just an oddball, but this device is one of the more confusing I have used. I know the Pre is not for everyone, and I know that the simple answer to most would be to just go buy a tour (or droid or whatever). The problem is, at least for me, is that there is so much the pre does right (at least in concept), that is so revolutionary and compelling, that these gaps in sensical execution are baffling. Plus, now that the Pre Plus is down to $50 (and it's "killer app" of shared 3G connectivity over wifi is now free) I wonder if the Palm death knellers might be right (something that I would hate to admit). This is a company that I have nothing but exceptional experiences with before, which makes me want to ask "Who are you, and what have you done with the real Palm?".

    Lastly, and maybe this is just a personal preference, but where are the product evangelists? Where is all of the community involvement that is almost required in most of today's advanced consumer markets? Like most people, I found almost all of the advertising Palm has done so far to be just plain odd and ineffective to the point of actually making me lose interest in the product/brand, but TiVo did this too (with a product with similar revolutionary potential). However, they nailed the execution (at least in the earlier days), and they had people engaging with their most enthusiastic and influential customers. The Pre had unprecedented hype leading up to its launch. Why was that just left to drop (along with customer goodwill and expectations)?


    Palm does not have the cash Apple does. They are running on fumes...but they are trying. The carriers want flagship phones that are in high-demand...and they will back that phone...and WebOS has not been that device for them...and they have moved on...at least in terms of major support.


    Anyway, my motivation here is really not to bury the Pre. If there are loads of people out there who think it is the bee's knees for their own use, that is awesome. My problem is that the things that have been overlooked just seem so basic. Sure, incredible features will make your sales-slick/press-packet look compelling, but it is in the actual experience where devices either shine or not (and build a following or not). At the end of the day, I guess I am just shocked that the device is not more than it is.

    So, with this being a pre fan forum, feel free to throw your spears. This is just my experience, and although I think these things are basic, others may experience something different. I mainly put this out there to talk about what I think are fairly obvious things that I don't see being discussed. Thanks for reading.



    Change is tough. I gave up a lot when I traded in my 700p (running the old PalmOS) for a Pre...but I gained more...and it gets better all of the time. I can do things with multitasking that the iPhone cannot dream about...and, perhaps more importantly, things keep getting better because the OS is fairly open to modification. Will we see the day when patches show up in the app catalog? Would be nice, especially for average consumers, but I doubt it...so hopefully Palm will integrate the best and brightest ideas into the core OS for the benfit of the average consumer...but they are also trying to keep things simple to bring in new smartphone users...and I suspect they are trying to keep the UI straightforward.

    I suggest giving it a second day...or a week...and then see how you feel. You may find more annoying things...and hopefully some good things. Who knows, but I will say that if you were looking for an email-centric device, this isn't it.

    BTW, you are not going to find many objective folks here...and many (if not most) are technically savvy enough that they have their devices patched beyond recognition.



    Best,

    John
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