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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by intellidryad View Post
    Just hope to help a little with some of your issues.

    No manual: When you first setup your phone, a video plays and in the end it reminds you that there is an app called "help" on the phone. That is your manual. I do agree that the actual pdf file of the full manual is hard to find on Palm's website, and I never knew it exists before I joined PreCentral. Now that, is something Palm didn't do right.

    About text input.
    Long press for capital letters and double space for a period mark? I think that really is a BB thing, and this is the first time I've heard of it. The Palm way of doing it is, once you type a period mark followed by a space, the next letter is automatically capitalized. I feel that this is more intuitive for people who has never used mobile devices.

    Different OS's are designed with different logic behind it. Try making the jump from Windows to a Mac! But I do agree that there's still somethings Palm has to fix, such as spell checker.

    Hope you'll like it once you get used to it!
    Also remember that you can make the shift and alt keys stick for multiple digits, characters, or all-caps.

    Once you learn the WebOS interface, I think you will love it. It's not perfect, and still missing some basic stuff that My centro could do with the ancient PalmOS platform, but Palm and PreCentral are catching up much faster than any other phone platform ever has. If you used the first Palm phone (handspring?) or the first Windows phone, or the first blackberry phone... they were all horrible and took years to make the progress that Palm has made since June of 2009.

    And here is an example of how Palm is starting to earn respect and visibility in the market, in spite of Palms terrible marketing...

    It took an organized and enthusiastic community for the Pre to be all the way to the "smart phone finals" in this web contest. The editors of laptopmag.com have been SHOCKED at how well the Pre did in this contest:

    March Smart Phone Madness Game 14: BlackBerry Tour vs. Motorola Droid

    And they are shocked at how poorly some of their editor's choices have performed (cough*iphone*cough).

    Make sure you vote in the finals to help the Pre stun the smartphone world once again!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Some of your issues are handled by preware patches and apps (such as slelecting multiple e-mails,
    If there is a patch that will do that, I certainly would like to know about it.
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
  3.    #23  
    Again, all good points, and I definitely understand the logic of them all. However, to me, most seem like solutions one would find after having to really look for them, rather than something that is either intuitive or readily available. With as ruthlessly competitive as the Smartphone industry is now-a-days, I guess I am just surprised that the user-experience details were not thought out to being dead simple for most people. Now, I am not talking about dumbing down all of the power out of this device. However, what I am saying is that there just seem to be some very basic oversights in the experience.

    With regard to the bb, perhaps there are a lot of bb features I am used to (and perhaps unfairly expect). However, wouldn't this be a target market for Palm? I mean, if I am not mistaken, bb is the biggest Smartphone manufacturer of them all. I don’t see how Palm can survive if they are looking at their device (or expect their customers to look at their device) in a vacuum of their competition. Additionally, are you telling me that bb migrators are not (heavily) targeted as potential users of this device? If not, that is sad. To all of bb's strengths, they really have let their device os age and lose relevancy, which IMO opens up opportunities for a scrappy/daring company like Palm to capitalize on. Unfortunately, this sort of innovation/leadership rot is not an uncommon occurrence for the apex predator in a large category.

    It is definitely not my intent to debate the virtues of this or that, or spread an opinion that the Pre is bad. It is not bad, it is actually quite amazing. It just may be a bad fit for me, which is sad because I can see what the device could be. However, I have been burned in overly-investing in “potential” in the past, so I guess I have 30 days to decide what I want to do. Anyway, thank you to all for your solutions and offers of help.


    Best,

    John
  4. #24  
    get the overclock patch that will definitely boost your outlook on pre!
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    If there is a patch that will do that, I certainly would like to know about it.
    Install Preware, then look under patches\email.

    There are several really cool email patches, including one that deletes the message when you swipe the notification. That's what I use because it's only for personal e-mail (I don't get many to that account) and I pull all email off to a PC to archive so it never accumulates on the phone.

    Check them out. You can also search for Jason at Canuck Software on this forum. I think he has a link of all his patches, as do the other developers here.
  6.    #26  
    Upon thinking about it more, perhaps at least some of my apprehension comes from the price drop today. Not that price level means everything, but it is a decent analogue for market position and perceived value. As such, the fact that Verizon has only had this phone a little over 60 days, and it has already dropped to 1/3 of its original price (vs. where the Droid stands, which has been "out" far longer) is troubling to say the least. Anyhow, just wanted to make sure that was said.


    Best,

    John
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    Again, all good points, and I definitely understand the logic of them all. However, to me, most seem like solutions one would find after having to really look for them, rather than something that is either intuitive or readily available. With as ruthlessly competitive as the Smartphone industry is now-a-days, I guess I am just surprised that the user-experience details were not thought out to being dead simple for most people. Now, I am not talking about dumbing down all of the power out of this device. However, what I am saying is that there just seem to be some very basic oversights in the experience.

    With regard to the bb, perhaps there are a lot of bb features I am used to (and perhaps unfairly expect). However, wouldn't this be a target market for Palm? I mean, if I am not mistaken, bb is the biggest Smartphone manufacturer of them all. I don’t see how Palm can survive if they are looking at their device (or expect their customers to look at their device) in a vacuum of their competition. Additionally, are you telling me that bb migrators are not (heavily) targeted as potential users of this device? If not, that is sad. To all of bb's strengths, they really have let their device os age and lose relevancy, which IMO opens up opportunities for a scrappy/daring company like Palm to capitalize on. Unfortunately, this sort of innovation/leadership rot is not an uncommon occurrence for the apex predator in a large category.

    It is definitely not my intent to debate the virtues of this or that, or spread an opinion that the Pre is bad. It is not bad, it is actually quite amazing. It just may be a bad fit for me, which is sad because I can see what the device could be. However, I have been burned in overly-investing in “potential” in the past, so I guess I have 30 days to decide what I want to do. Anyway, thank you to all for your solutions and offers of help.


    Best,

    John
    it would not be interesting if all the phones came with the same features and setting capabilities. this is why there is competition, at least in my opinion. i love the fact that Palm and WebOs took risks. i can agree, it does take sometime to get used to a whole new OS, a brand new one at that; however, Palm has been making great improvements with updates. there is a lot more issues that have yet to be resolved but it is in the works.

    perhaps, the Pre market is not for you. we, who are WebOs users form the get go, have learned to be patient, it is like watching a child grow. now, i am not one to say that i have not had headaches because of instability and hardware malfunction, but who hasn't?


    it is also nice that you can notice that the phone has the potential to get to where you want it to be. if you have no patience, then i would suggest to stick with what works for you best, at least you can't say you didn't try it out for yourself.
  8. #28  
    100% agree on 9 and 10
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    OK, a little about me. I am upgrading from a Blackberry Curve 8330 (the best bb available on Verizon the last time I came up for my last upgrade). I liked the phone, especially the intuitive features. However, Blackberry's lack of being able to use the "real" web, and lack of simple things like threaded (or even decent) SMS was a real hindrance on my 8330.
    This paragraph pretty much explains all your complaints bellow, btw.

    1. Select multiple emails. You know, to delete, mark as read, etc. Basic functions I do at least daily.
    Not a big deal for me, but then again I don't get 400 emails a day, in which case it would be a big deal.

    2. Spell check for emails (one of my bigger, "are you kidding me's?").
    I guess. But I don't want it running in memory all the time.

    3. Auto-correction that makes sense (seriously, I know you think MS always means Ms., but for me it means Microsoft 99.999% of the time).
    I would prefer this to be an optional toggle. I don't want a massive database of auto-correct words running in an already ram-starved environment. I'd rather run multiple programs than spell better. And, there are patches that do this.

    4. Have normal build-quality and feel for a device of this caliber (I am shocked that the sharp edges made it past prototype). If it is a duck, it *has* to look like a duck, quack like a duck, and FEEL like a duck.
    Never noticed. Wah.

    5. Simple keyboard conveniences (double space for period, hold letter for capital, etc.). I know these are bb things, but they seem pretty obvious, at least to me.
    See my first post.

    6. Ability to manage email better. This one has been discussed ad nausium, so I won't parrot what has already been said. In my own experience, though, for the one email I took the time to write on the pre (curse you, #2), I got an error when I sent it. Not only that, I cannot get it back to re-send. It has disappeared into the Palmosphere. Outbox? Nope. Sent items? Nope. Anywhere on Gmail? Nope. Ugh.
    I've never had an error sending an email. But I'm using Sprint.

    7. Mediocre (at best) phone call quality. I often have had to put on a headset to understand the person on the other line (especially when cell to cell, carrier to carrier). Now I am not expecting hifi sound quality through the earpiece, but I was expecting something north of Burger Barn drive-through speaker.
    My call quality is fantastic. But I'm on Sprint. I have never had good quality on Verizon with any phone.


    8. No user guide. This is amazing to me. For a device this revolutionary (from an OS/Interface perspective), I am amazed that there are not reference materials in the box. I consider myself a pretty sharp spoon with these sorts of things, and I have done no less than 20 Google searches in the last day figuring out how to do something (usually simple somethings). Even the icons used from everything from email (paper airplane to send?) to the app store are confusing. Most of these make sense in hindsight, but should you really have to push the buttons to find out what they do?
    There are up-to-date help in the launcher itself if you tap help. But really, I think it may just be you, I've seen people that barely know how to use a computer figure out how to use the Pre quickly.

    9. No/crippled GPS. Now, I understand that this may just me a v. 1.4 thing (and is, historically, one of the more annoying things about Verizon), but this just makes no sense. Even the guided setup talks about location services (and location-aware apps) quite a bit. So, I would imagine, that most folks would actually expect this to work.
    Works great on Sprint.

    10. Lack of a sensical "settings" screen. Why spread settings so far out? Even more, why make everything so automatic and non-configurable? As one small example, you can't delete facebook friends from your contacts. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I want my contacts list to be automatically bloated with tons of people I will never call/email/text, and will only make my contacts more cluttered. Thanks for that.
    I much prefer our settings options over the insanely complicated endless lists of settings on Blackberry. To each his own.

    11. No process indicator that says something is happening (like app is loading, etc.). Since the accuracy of any touch screen will never be 100% for everyone, it would be nice to have feedback that something is happening (and further tapping is not required).
    I have no idea what you are talking about. Since 1.4 you always see something happening.

    Maybe I am just an oddball, but this device is one of the more confusing I have used.
    If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck....
  10. #30  
    Coming from a PalmOS device (Treo 755p), the Pre was a shock. Many things were different. I almost returned it. But after about two weeks I figured out all the ins and outs. I was also smitten with the excellent EAS support. About a month later, I picked up my old Treo, and it felt so archaic.

    By the way, the Help app is VERY good. You can find the answers to most questions there. No need for a manual. In fact, as much as Palm is updating the phone, the electronic Help app allows them to keep fresh info always at your fingertips.

    You can't expect to work the same way you did on your BB. You have to conform a bit to the webOS way of doing things in order to appreciate it.
  11. #31  
    Hey man, I understand what you're saying. Coming from one OS environment to something completely different, there's bound to be a few speedbumps and a bit of a learning curve. Yeah, there are obvious features missing and some things do need to be addressed. But that's what updates are for!

    It's been one day, right? Hopefully, after some more time and use you'll find yourself liking this phone more and more. I can only hope so, as I'm about to jump into the world of Pre myself and my backstory sounds suspiciously like yours, haha.
    THIS IS HOW WE HANDLE BUSINESS
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    8. No user guide. This is amazing to me. For a device this revolutionary (from an OS/Interface perspective), I am amazed that there are not reference materials in the box. I consider myself a pretty sharp spoon with these sorts of things, and I have done no less than 20 Google searches in the last day figuring out how to do something (usually simple somethings). Even the icons used from everything from email (paper airplane to send?) to the app store are confusing. Most of these make sense in hindsight, but should you really have to push the buttons to find out what they do?
    It's online! I even printed it out. As well as there is a HELP for each screen on the phone. Easy peasy.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    Again, all good points, and I definitely understand the logic of them all. However, to me, most seem like solutions one would find after having to really look for them, rather than something that is either intuitive or readily available. With as ruthlessly competitive as the Smartphone industry is now-a-days, I guess I am just surprised that the user-experience details were not thought out to being dead simple for most people. Now, I am not talking about dumbing down all of the power out of this device. However, what I am saying is that there just seem to be some very basic oversights in the experience.

    With regard to the bb, perhaps there are a lot of bb features I am used to (and perhaps unfairly expect). However, wouldn't this be a target market for Palm? I mean, if I am not mistaken, bb is the biggest Smartphone manufacturer of them all. I don’t see how Palm can survive if they are looking at their device (or expect their customers to look at their device) in a vacuum of their competition. Additionally, are you telling me that bb migrators are not (heavily) targeted as potential users of this device? If not, that is sad. To all of bb's strengths, they really have let their device os age and lose relevancy, which IMO opens up opportunities for a scrappy/daring company like Palm to capitalize on. Unfortunately, this sort of innovation/leadership rot is not an uncommon occurrence for the apex predator in a large category.

    It is definitely not my intent to debate the virtues of this or that, or spread an opinion that the Pre is bad. It is not bad, it is actually quite amazing. It just may be a bad fit for me, which is sad because I can see what the device could be. However, I have been burned in overly-investing in “potential” in the past, so I guess I have 30 days to decide what I want to do. Anyway, thank you to all for your solutions and offers of help.


    Best,

    John
    I really agree with you on this. As cool as all the mods and patches are, you'd prefer that they be built in and easy to find when you walk out of the Verizon store. That day will come, and I agree that a large part of the WebOS richness is only available to people that find this site and are willing to roll up their sleeves and learn stuff.

    I think they have all that "dead-simple" stuff in mind, and it is just being added as fast as Palm can. They've had some really amazing features added in the OS upgrades they put out every few months. That video camera app you have now wasn't there in January, and it automatically appeared in the last update. I think the Pre is already "dead-simple" and just lacking some stuff that you rightfully can expect to already be there. It's not as simple for us to add through this forum, but that just shows that they platform can absorb major changes as Palm adds them. It still astounds me how the Preware app catalog does a better job of managing and updating the apps from Palm's own app catalog (realtime search, automatic list of apps that have updates available, etc). If volunteer community developers can make such bullet-proof enhancements, you know that Palm put the right foundations and API in place to be able to do it too.

    That's not just banking on potential, that's real value today. The iPhone is locked down to preclude ever having some of the cool stuff the Pre already has (even if you do have to use this forum to get it). Flash is a good example. I think Flash isn't all that important to me, but WebOS already has support for Flash built in. Apple will NEVER let flash run on the iPhone (unless Steve Jobs makes a public change of position) because it requires inter-application commmunication that Apple will only allow between Apple's own core iPhone apps. That's why you can surf the web and listen to itunes, and the iphone app can pause itunes when a call comes in, but a call will shut down a third-party app. Instead Jobs is trying to force the world to support HTML 5 that will make Flash less important. And, Apple will probably create their own flash player so they can support protected content from hulu and other sites. If anyone can pull that off, it's Apple. But it won't happen between now and when my Verizon contract renews, so I'll be enjoying flash on my Pre for a year or two before the iPhone or Blackberry have such a thing.

    In terms of "targets", palm's strategy gets a lot of criticism around here. It seems to me that Palm is more targeting the iPhone (and Droid) as that is where the growth is. BB is losing share, and they probably think it is less beneficial to compete with the leader in a dying market (non-touch screen phones that have crappy browsers and ancient operating systems) when Apple clearly demonstrated that the market has shifted. Agree or not, you have to admit it took a major set of stones for Palm to aim at leapfrogging the market rather than picking away at an entrenched competitor like blackberry.

    It isn't often that you have a company that creates an entire industry (Palm was 100% of the PDA market in the beginning), get crushed by a new player in a shifting industry (convergence of PDA and Phone, and growth of email as a business-critical application). RIM beat Palm down to a mere shadow of it's former glory. Instead of fighting back in a predictable manner, they decided to leapfrog everyone on an open platform, and draft behind Apple as the iPhone breaks new ground. Personally, I think it was a brilliant strategy and they just did a crummy job in executing it in terms of marketing. Yu will find many threads around here where users have made commercials that are MUCH better than what Palm runs on TV. That said, you have to appreciate the technical merit and cheer for success much like Apple users did when Apple was full of innovation and had virtually no market share. The technical merit became more valuable as they gained ground and built market share for the Mac.

    Considering that the Treo and Centro stood up very well when compared to the blackberry, I was bummed that some core functionality didn't make it to WebOS from day one. But, they got the deal-breaker stuff right enough to win me over. I was totally sold on the MotoDroid, and I only waited th extra months to look at the Pre for sentimental reasons. Pre had me at hello, or at least at the moment I learned 5 simple gestures.

    I would encourage you to use all 30 days to give your Pre a chance. I don't think you would be any happier with a MotoDroid, so you can alway sfo back to blackberry if you need things that haven't made it to the Pre yet.

    But, I haven't seen anyone really use a Pre and not love it, even if they didn't keep it for reasons that might also matter to you. The good news is that you can get an upgrade every two years (actually, verizon starts discounting upgrades at one year, although not as much).

    Let us know how it goes, and let us help you find the tips you need to be successful. An educated consumer is the best customer, so you will feel better about either decision if you made it from a position of having really used the phone in real-world tasks...

    You will stop wishing for a track ball, and wonder how you ever could live without a multi-touch phone...
  14. #34  
    9. No/crippled GPS. Now, I understand that this may just me a v. 1.4 thing (and is, historically, one of the more annoying things about Verizon), but this just makes no sense. Even the guided setup talks about location services (and location-aware apps) quite a bit. So, I would imagine, that most folks would actually expect this to work.
    My google maps works great and well since I'm on Sprint my navigation works wonderfully with the exception how it pronounces words on occasion.

    11. No process indicator that says something is happening (like app is loading, etc.). Since the accuracy of any touch screen will never be 100% for everyone, it would be nice to have feedback that something is happening (and further tapping is not required).
    Again I'm on Sprint and it has a glowing indicator behind the name of the app in the center of the screen. Kinda like the glow behind the word PALM on start up.
  15. #35  
    "5. Simple keyboard conveniences (double space for period, hold letter for capital, etc.). I know these are bb things, but they seem pretty obvious, at least to me."

    Some of us do NOT want this behavior. Unlike the phone you left, the Pre has a full keyboard with period and shift keys.
  16. #36  
    5. Simple keyboard conveniences (double space for period, hold letter for capital, etc.). I know these are bb things, but they seem pretty obvious, at least to me.
    Up arrow is caps. Press it twice and it keeps it caps until you turn it off. Double space after periods is not a big thing especially since with typing it has gone out of use. But is it really that had to hit SPACE BAR, SPACE BAR - this is not meant to be snarky but a serious question.

    4. Have normal build-quality and feel for a device of this caliber (I am shocked that the sharp edges made it past prototype). If it is a duck, it *has* to look like a duck, quack like a duck, and FEEL like a duck.
    What sharp edges? I don't have any.

    7. Mediocre (at best) phone call quality. I often have had to put on a headset to understand the person on the other line (especially when cell to cell, carrier to carrier). Now I am not expecting hifi sound quality through the earpiece, but I was expecting something north of Burger Barn drive-through speaker.
    I have excellent sound when I use the handset or my Jabra or my Jawbone. Speaker quality could be better but I rarely use it. I don't need or want others hearing my conversation.
  17. #37  
    lets not beat a dead horse here and just repost what he stated with unhelpful replies. Let the phone speak for itself.
  18. #38  
    free your mind of the blackberry way....youre thinking thats the best way because your brain is accustomed to it....thats ok you have been training yourself on the bb way for years and its been good for you...

    but it is now time to release and become one with pre lol! you can do it let it go...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Install Preware, then look under patches\email.

    There are several really cool email patches, including one that deletes the message when you swipe the notification. That's what I use because it's only for personal e-mail (I don't get many to that account) and I pull all email off to a PC to archive so it never accumulates on the phone.

    Check them out. You can also search for Jason at Canuck Software on this forum. I think he has a link of all his patches, as do the other developers here.
    Have Preware, have the patch you mention (Delete from Notification). However, I still don't know of a patch which will allow you to select multiple e-mails for deletion, move to another folder, etc. I've seen it requested on the forums quite a few times, even a teaser screenshot of what it would look like on the main PreCentral page.
    My device history:

    - Jim J.

    (On Sprint for many years)
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by john.coleman View Post
    I appreciate the replies regarding the contacts, that makes sense. However, maybe this is just the consultant in me, but I question cluttering up anything unnecessarily. It just feels inefficient, which is probably 90% of my problem with it. I am sure you are all right, that for practical purposes it is largely a moot point. Thanks for chiming in.


    Best,

    John
    Broadcast consultant by any chance? (Actually you'd have to lose the "H" to be him I think)

    Two quickies to give a nod to the others that have spoken up:

    Yes, Universal Search is the ticket. I have 4 databases integrated and it simply doesn't matter. Group searches are in the future so I'm told.

    You're on the wrong provider to have you GPS work well. And, you're paying too much for service. Not that any of us are all THAT in love with Sprint, at the end of the day they have the best service for this piece of equipment.

    bj
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