Important information on how the AppStore works.

Pulp · 04/01/2010, 04:27 AM

I had a long chat with palm support yesterday and it was enlightning, but also frustrating.
Enlightning, because it explained why some people get apps, others don't.
Frustrating, because there is nothing that can be done to change it but to replace the device.

Here's the deal:

When your start your phone for the very first time and create your first palm-profile, that is when your device gets registered and classified.

If your devices first contact with palms servers is done from Germany using a german provider you get access to the german app catalog.
From that moment on, no matter what country you are in, no matter what provider you are using, no matter how many profiles your create and what version of the OS you use, the german app catalog is what you get.

The frustrating part is - the is no way to change that.
If you buy a Pre on eBay, you get the app catalog of the country it was first registered.
If you get a brand new device and registere it in a country that is not officially supported yet, you are left without any payed apps even after 1.4.1.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion around that topic - and I seriously hope palm will give us a way to reset the profile someday...

Tumpin · 04/01/2010, 05:14 AM

Wow thats harsh of Palm!

palmdoc2005 · 04/01/2010, 05:19 AM

Yup. Their hardware sales are not exactly stellar, they could do with better software sales (and better revenue for devs so it's a win-win). Being 'exclusive' like this is stupid.

PalmoAnest · 04/01/2010, 05:57 AM

Yeah, damn stupid it is!

Tumpin · 04/01/2010, 06:25 AM

Im surprised how long it took them to get paid apps international considering how badly palm need cash!

Andreas · 07:12 AM

Please God, let this be a april fools joke.

If not I wish someome with good knowledge of EU law could take look at this. This just can't be right as it makes it impossoble to sell the device back to a supported country, basically its rendered pretty much useless. I want to return mine just for the heck of it, tired of being ignored.

swissc · 04/01/2010, 06:31 AM

It really is amazing that they could have such a policy - is Palm begging to go out of business?

ospreyguy · 04/01/2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumpin

Im surprised how long it took them to get paid apps international considering how badly palm need cash!

Why would they do this? I just can't see a reason to delay it? Is there concerns about EU and copyrights or something? I just can't see a reasonable explanation... Not that I really care too too much. Just one of those thoughts everytime I see a posting about apps outside of the US.

spud101 · 04/01/2010, 07:48 AM

Webdoctoring and creating a brand new Palm Profile should enable you to re-register the phone elsewehere, right?

So webdoctor it, take it to e.g. the UK, put in a UK O2 prepaid sim. activate & create new palm profile, et voila...

Still wondering whether it would accept other credit card though. I can't even enter the preferences & accounts option from the menu in the app catalog app list scene on my German Pre acivated in Holland on KPN.

spud101 · 04/01/2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ospreyguy

Why would they do this? I just can't see a reason to delay it? Is there concerns about EU and copyrights or something? I just can't see a reasonable explanation... Not that I really care too too much. Just one of those thoughts everytime I see a posting about apps outside of the US.

I think every European country still has its own laws concerning Tax etc.

bennish · 04/01/2010, 07:51 AM

my first profile was made in australia, on a spanish pre. it gives me spanish app catalog.

so how can it have done this? it didn't go throu spanish servers...

spud101 · 04/01/2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomi666

Not according to the OP post.
No voila...

That is so hard to believe though. I would expect that webdoctoring results in a virgin-empty Pre???

spud101 · 04/01/2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomi666

If I read this correctly;
Your DeviceId/IMEI is checked and based on that info and what was registered during the device's first profile creation, your AppCat entitlement is determined.

That would mean that Palm checks in its own databases for the initial profile created with your IMEI everytime you create a new profile? That is pretty privacy sensitive I assume and probably very incompliant with many European laws. Also means that I can't resell the thing. Still seems really hard to believe.

Oh well, maybe it's time to get a Pre Plus by the time its available in GSM flavor in Europe and activate it in a supported country.

Pulp · 04/01/2010, 08:29 AM

To get that off the table - it sadly is not an April's joke.

I'm positive Palm will extend the Appstores to other Eu-countries aswell, they are simply starting with the ones were the Pre is officially sold - I hope they are doing it fast.

Also it turnes out that there is no need to get frustrated if you (like me) did activate your Pre in an "unofficial" country.
Even if you did activate your Pre in Germany (for ex.), and you see the whole german app catalog, you can only use it with a credit card of a country that is officially supported.

So for now, if you registered your new device in your own country you did the right thing, because you will allways only see the apps you can actually download, and when payed apps come to your country and you see them then you will also be able to buy them.

I guess all we can do is to rely on palm to expand the payed apps to as many countries as possible as soon as possible...

Winterbay · 04/01/2010, 08:33 AM

Or at least expand the apps to all countires. This filtering is just silly.

spud101 · 04/01/2010, 08:51 AM

It's a case for warez and another nail in Palm's coffin...

frause · 04/01/2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulp

When your start your phone for the very first time and create your first palm-profile, that is when your device gets registered and classified.

I had a suspicion this was what happening based on reports in the Swedish users thread. I just couldn't believe Palm would use such a wonky implementation of geofiltering.

christcentric · 04/01/2010, 10:52 AM

we need to get in to the right channels to pressure palm to rethink their app distribution approach. i had a brief exchange with HardBeatZ (Palm employee) on another thread here:

somehow, there's some reason involved in their approach, legal or otherwise. It seems that Jon Rubenstein, being CEO, is pushing this down the food chain and somewhere somehow our pleas are getting lost,.
so we need to find the right person in the right department in Palm (they may be relatively small, but 1000 employees makes them a sizable corporation still), find out why they are doing this, and work towards having paid apps for ALL. how do we do this?

this is driving me closer and closer to warez sites. all those great apps out there ...

Pulp · 04/01/2010, 11:06 AM

They should at least offer a way to reset this.
If I move to another country I need a way to reset the setting and have it re-set when I get there.
Also if I want to sell my phone I need a way to reset that option.

They could simply add an option for that to the profile management page on the palm website.

Winterbay · 04/01/2010, 11:48 AM

I can see how they do not feel the need to help you sell you phone, but it is a fact that people move around quite a lot these days and as such not being able to change to the catalog of the country you're in is pretty stupid.

04/01/2010, 04:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
Pulp Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Austria Posts: 298 Likes Received: 4 Thanks: 128 Thanked 64 Times in 38 Posts	Important information on how the AppStore works. I had a long chat with palm support yesterday and it was enlightning, but also frustrating. Enlightning, because it explained why some people get apps, others don't. Frustrating, because there is nothing that can be done to change it but to replace the device. Here's the deal: When your start your phone for the very first time and create your first palm-profile, that is when your device gets registered and classified. If your devices first contact with palms servers is done from Germany using a german provider you get access to the german app catalog. From that moment on, no matter what country you are in, no matter what provider you are using, no matter how many profiles your create and what version of the OS you use, the german app catalog is what you get. The frustrating part is - the is no way to change that. If you buy a Pre on eBay, you get the app catalog of the country it was first registered. If you get a brand new device and registere it in a country that is not officially supported yet, you are left without any payed apps even after 1.4.1. I hope this clears up some of the confusion around that topic - and I seriously hope palm will give us a way to reset the profile someday...
	Liked by Thanked by ColbyM, PalmoAnest, tomi666, WalterH

04/01/2010, 05:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tumpin Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 48 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Wow thats harsh of Palm! __________________ ___ Have already Pre-ordered my Nintendo Pre 2
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 05:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
palmdoc2005 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: http://palmdoc.net Posts: 1,813 Likes Received: 20 Thanks: 295 Thanked 230 Times in 138 Posts	Yup. Their hardware sales are not exactly stellar, they could do with better software sales (and better revenue for devs so it's a win-win). Being 'exclusive' like this is stupid.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 05:57 AM	#4 (permalink)
PalmoAnest Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 160 Likes Received: 5 Thanks: 25 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Yeah, damn stupid it is!
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 06:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tumpin Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 48 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Im surprised how long it took them to get paid apps international considering how badly palm need cash! __________________ ___ Have already Pre-ordered my Nintendo Pre 2
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 06:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
Andreas Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SE Posts: 813 Likes Received: 33 Thanks: 50 Thanked 34 Times in 28 Posts	Please God, let this be a april fools joke. If not I wish someome with good knowledge of EU law could take look at this. This just can't be right as it makes it impossoble to sell the device back to a supported country, basically its rendered pretty much useless. I want to return mine just for the heck of it, tired of being ignored. Last edited by Andreas; 04/01/2010 at 07:12 AM.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 06:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
swissc Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 9 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It really is amazing that they could have such a policy - is Palm begging to go out of business?
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 07:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
spud101 Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 825 Likes Received: 66 Thanks: 78 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Webdoctoring and creating a brand new Palm Profile should enable you to re-register the phone elsewehere, right? So webdoctor it, take it to e.g. the UK, put in a UK O2 prepaid sim. activate & create new palm profile, et voila... Still wondering whether it would accept other credit card though. I can't even enter the preferences & accounts option from the menu in the app catalog app list scene on my German Pre acivated in Holland on KPN.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 07:51 AM	#11 (permalink)
bennish Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toowoomba, Aus Posts: 586 Likes Received: 2 Thanks: 97 Thanked 88 Times in 66 Posts	my first profile was made in australia, on a spanish pre. it gives me spanish app catalog. so how can it have done this? it didn't go throu spanish servers... __________________ [twitter]_____[blog]______[im]__ For now: Nexus One \| iPad 2 When avail. in Aus: Pre3 16GB \| Touchpad 16GB This is a forum for WebOS enthusiasts. It is not a place for negative rants about Palm, HP or WebOS. Criticism is important but so is a positive environment. Remember, we're here because we love WebOS.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 08:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
Pulp Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Austria Posts: 298 Likes Received: 4 Thanks: 128 Thanked 64 Times in 38 Posts	To get that off the table - it sadly is not an April's joke. I'm positive Palm will extend the Appstores to other Eu-countries aswell, they are simply starting with the ones were the Pre is officially sold - I hope they are doing it fast. Also it turnes out that there is no need to get frustrated if you (like me) did activate your Pre in an "unofficial" country. Even if you did activate your Pre in Germany (for ex.), and you see the whole german app catalog, you can only use it with a credit card of a country that is officially supported. So for now, if you registered your new device in your own country you did the right thing, because you will allways only see the apps you can actually download, and when payed apps come to your country and you see them then you will also be able to buy them. I guess all we can do is to rely on palm to expand the payed apps to as many countries as possible as soon as possible...
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 08:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
Winterbay Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tele 2 SE (Göteborg, Sweden) Posts: 105 Likes Received: 3 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Or at least expand the apps to all countires. This filtering is just silly.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 08:51 AM	#16 (permalink)
spud101 Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 825 Likes Received: 66 Thanks: 78 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	It's a case for warez and another nail in Palm's coffin...
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 10:52 AM	#18 (permalink)
christcentric Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 102 Likes Received: 1 Thanks: 2 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	we need to get in to the right channels to pressure palm to rethink their app distribution approach. i had a brief exchange with HardBeatZ (Palm employee) on another thread here: somehow, there's some reason involved in their approach, legal or otherwise. It seems that Jon Rubenstein, being CEO, is pushing this down the food chain and somewhere somehow our pleas are getting lost,. so we need to find the right person in the right department in Palm (they may be relatively small, but 1000 employees makes them a sizable corporation still), find out why they are doing this, and work towards having paid apps for ALL. how do we do this? this is driving me closer and closer to warez sites. all those great apps out there ...
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 11:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Pulp Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Austria Posts: 298 Likes Received: 4 Thanks: 128 Thanked 64 Times in 38 Posts	They should at least offer a way to reset this. If I move to another country I need a way to reset the setting and have it re-set when I get there. Also if I want to sell my phone I need a way to reset that option. They could simply add an option for that to the profile management page on the palm website.
	Liked by

04/01/2010, 11:48 AM	#20 (permalink)
Winterbay Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tele 2 SE (Göteborg, Sweden) Posts: 105 Likes Received: 3 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	I can see how they do not feel the need to help you sell you phone, but it is a fact that people move around quite a lot these days and as such not being able to change to the catalog of the country you're in is pretty stupid.
	Liked by

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