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  1. sushi's Avatar
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    #41  
    If Sprint would just unleash Palm WebOS for it's SERO users, you'd see a mass uptake as well...
  2. #42  
    true- but then sprint might be losing $$ if they go the sero route
  3. Gaidal's Avatar
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    #43  
    This was a great article by engadget. You can tell Josh T. is really rooting for Palm (see his last line) and most people in the comments section really want Palm to succeed. I have a feeling if they can get through the unsold inventory and really have a killer device in the wings late summer or early fall they can capitalize on it.
  4. #44  
    I thought the article really hit the nail on the head. And while I see many people on this forum blaming marketing, I also see people ignoring the facts that the Pre ain't all that. It has serious problems. wynand32 commented earlier that folks on PC have a tendancy to ignore what was done right and only whine. True. But other folks on PC have a tendency to only see the good and ignore the issues.

    My opinions:
    1. WebOS is the most innovative mobile OS since iPhone
    2. The implementation has some serious problems: speed, battery life, hardware

    WebOS has potential that has not yet been realized. It is not at all surprising to me that it's not selling. Yes marketing wasn't good. Yes WebOS is an incredible vision. But, good grief, there are some serious problems. Constantly whining that WebOS is great and ignoring those problems is not productive.

    IMHO, Engadget nailed it.
    Last edited by mu7efcer; 03/20/2010 at 08:39 AM.
    Twitter: dullgeek
  5. #45  
    Engadget is spot on...I am a loyal sprint user, but they cannot release another phone exclusively on sprint. There is just too much stigma with Sprint, I will never understand why (It works great for me even with heavy traveling).

    But most of all the Marketing... After every single iPhone commercial I find myself say afterwards..."wow that's cool."

    Even with the new and best Palm ad to date, I still don't really get to see the phone and what it can do.

    People donít even know about the Pre! I was in a bar yesterday watching some basketball. I struck up a conversation with a 21-year old male next to me (I am 36). We started talking about smartphones, I mentioned the Pre and he didnít know what it was. How does that happen? I can see not being a fan, but not even knowing what it is...Unacceptable!

    Anyway, I am buying first Pre in April, and couldnít be more thrilled to get it in my hands. I donít care; sprint and the Pre fit my needs and wants.
  6. #46  
    They need a 15 second TV spot showing a Pre being placed on a touchstone. And then removed. Simple simple functional things are what makes the Pre great. No one likes having to deal with cables, show people a simple convenience they can understand so they go "wow", then start talking about webOS and synergy once you have got their attention.

    Oh, and fix the freaking slider oreo and battery life.
  7. #47  
    I almost fully agree with the Engadget take. I do think, however, the "Sprint" exclusivity may have been a forced maneuver, and quite frankly, the real problem here is two fold.

    1. Hardware.
    2. Marketing.

    The hardware is lackluster compared to the competition. Palm released a 2008 device in 2009, that's the issue. They released too late after CES and failed to gain any sustainable momentum out of the trade show.

    It's almost as if some of the marketing team @ Palm felt that WebOS would sell itself. That's the biggest mistake and failure in all of this. Even the juggernaut that is Apple advertises, and advertises frequently. Palm has all of these former Apple employees and management, and apparently they didn't learn the most valuable lesson from their former employer.

    Marketing is key.
  8. dpc
    dpc is offline
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidal View Post
    This was a great article by engadget. You can tell Josh T. is really rooting for Palm (see his last line) and most people in the comments section really want Palm to succeed. I have a feeling if they can get through the unsold inventory and really have a killer device in the wings late summer or early fall they can capitalize on it.
    Yeah, Josh T. is a genuine Palm fan. In terms of killer device I think they should just go all out and make a fullscreen with virtual keyboard.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I agree with many points in the article but the sprint bashing. Sprint is best for palm in a number of ways and have always been close. Sprint will peddle palm products better and with more zeal than other carriers.
    I've seen Sprint ads with the Pre in them, but never any that showed off what the device can do. So saying that they're doing a better job than other carriers isn't saying too much.
  10. #50  
    I thought it was a great article chronicling the ups and downs (more downs than ups) of the history of the WebOS devices.

    I agree with most of it, except the part about not releasing the next device on Sprint. I think they need Sprint, and I agree that Sprint needs Palm more than other carries need it. I agree that it should not be exclusive, but they need to continue releasing new hardware on Sprint.

    Despite all the mistakes he described, I think he missed one of the biggest: they left their base behind, PIM users. Palm has historically been known as makers of the premier PIM device, going back to the Pilot. The PIM apps, Contacts, Calendar, To-Do, Memos, were awful, maybe with the exception of the Contacts app, which had some flaws, but was not bad. but To-Do and Memos especially were a joke.

    They lost their base.
  11. #51  
    Yea, I just saw this last night...

    Swear I didn't say 90% of the stuff in there or anything...

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...os-masses.html

    I guess I have proven how E-Z it is to get a message across if you really want to, tho.

    One person can do a lot if they just sit down for 5 hours and repeat the same thing over and over again as many times as it takes.

    MIND CONTROL!!

    Or me and Joshua Topolsky are brothers from another mother... somethin'.

    EDIT: I will admit that the "drop the Pixi" idea was definitely novel, tho. It is still definitely something I would highly consider, however.... and most likely agree with in the long run, since I thought the idea of a Pixi without Cortex A8 was PATHETIC. The other drawbacks weren't as killer as that. So kill it, I say!
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    The hardware is lackluster compared to the competition. Palm released a 2008 device in 2009, that's the issue. They released too late after CES and failed to gain any sustainable momentum out of the trade show.
    First, why do you say the hardware was "2008 in 2009," when the Pre has the same guts as the iPhone 3GS, also released in 2009? Certainly, it's not the ubiquitous (and boring, and dated) iPhone slab style design, but hardware-wise it's competitive with all but the latest Snapdragon/Tegra devices. And of course Palm can't stop technology from progressing. If they waited until they had the latest and greatest hardware, they'd never release anything.

    Second, I don't think Palm released too late after CES. Rather, I think they announced too early. It's true that the initial buzz was much reduced by the time the Pre was released, but if the argument's valid that webOS was "half-baked" in June, what would it have been like in March?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  13. #53  
    Hey if Palm doesn't succeed in turning around webOS market share, it will quickly become open source and up for homebrew development.
  14. Stihl's Avatar
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       #54  
    It's interesting, one of the reasons why the proper marketing for this phone was so difficult had to be because of the unfinished nature of the OS. As stated earlier, so much of the phone's beauty lies in the potential.

    Palm really screwed up by not maintaining flexibility through their marketing.

    The phone games just as well as the iphone, but there are no commercials with games. The multitasking is fantastic, but there are no commercials with multitasking; all the commercials show someone throwing around big floating rectangles, which honestly means nothing if you are not familiar with the OS. The phone has a great camera with flash, and there are no commercials showing it. We have a dock that charges the phone wirelessly and there is no commercial. Where are the apps in these commercials? Video gets added and there is no commercial for it. And when flash gets added I doubt we will see a commercial for that.

    Instead, we get commercials advertising "Palm." Great. Palm, a name that hasn't been relevant in how long? Seriously, go back to those commercials and compare the screentime for "Palm" to showing what the Pre actually does and try not to vomit.

    Go ahead, I'll wait.

    Yet, somehow, some regular sales person in a store who hasn't messed around with the phone in a year because his first experience with it was horrible, is supposed to be blamed for not selling it.

    The worst part? Selling the name Palm suggests a fluidity between information management and access. It's a brand with history, and you get a Palm device for a reason--too bad the PIM part of the pre isn't fleshed out yet.

    So what are these commercials actually selling again?

    I can't decide if Palm was arrogant or merely inept.
  15. #55  
    Everyone keeps talking around the problem as if it wasn't obvious to the rest of the world. It's all about the iPhone, not Android, not BB, not WinMo, not Verizon, not Sprint; iPhone. It is the 800LB gorilla that just won't leave the room.

    Palm is obsessed with Apple, to their own detriment. They are the quintessential anti-Apple company. They drip of Apple envy and hate all at once. For this latest relaunch of Palm, they brought in as many Apple alumni as they could get. From their investors to their CEO, all seem to have close connections with Apple, along with an axe to grind. Responding to the success of the iPhone, they came out with a phone that was as close as they could make to an iPhone except with a keyboard. There is almost nothing of classic Palm in the iPhone competitor.

    They had their heads so far up their anti-Apple a$$es, they hack-jacked iTunes and made it an important selling point for their product. It is hard to believe there were no adults at this company who thought that was a bad idea and could put on the breaks. They traded what credibility they had as a serious company for a few weeks of jackleg iTunes compatibility. I believe this did more to destroy what was left of Palm than any single misstep they took. They became the Psystar of the mobile industry. They simply could not be taken seriously after that.

    Even when WebOS was announced, people were wondering how long it would take for Apple to sue them for blatant IP theft. The response of the Palm faithful was not so much that Palm didn't rip off Apple, but that Palm had patents they could fight back with. Well, the public does not care about who owns patents. They know that before the iPhone came out, there was nothing quite like it. After the iPhone came out, everything started to look and act like it. Rather than distancing itself from that perception, Palm made a near one to one copy of other iPhone features like the particular implementation they use for video editing.

    When it became clear that developers were just not interested in making apps for WebOS, Palm came up with a way to make it easy for developers to port their app to WebOS that had been originally written for other platforms. Let us be clear; this is about getting iPhone specific apps to work on WebOS. Again, Palm is trying to find a way to take Apple's app advantage away, not by creating a compelling alternative, but by literally taking apps that were conceived for Apple's ecosystem. Everything interesting in the app catalogue is nothing more than an iPhone port. It seems that is all the app catalogue will ever be.

    To defend the shortcomings of WebOS, people site the shortcomings of the iPhone when it was in its infancy. They believe that comparing the Pre to the iPhone from three years ago makes it all better. So now, the iPhone's maturation process is even something to be emulated.

    Palm made a huge mistake by targeting the iPhone when releasing the Pre. Now, they will forever be compared to a phone that they can never beat. They brought that on themselves. Now Ruby is publicly pouting about the Droid getting to Verizon before the Pre. Palm needs to stop picking fights they can't win with companies that can pound them to sand without trying. Palm can't win as the anti-Apple alternative. In the first place, there just aren't enough people who hate Apple and their products. If they see your product as being like the iPhone, but not quite as good, they will just pick the iPhone. They have no emotional reason not to do so.

    Palm needs to lose their obsession with the iPhone and not trade it for an equally bad Android obsession. They need to focus on what Palm did best before they decided to scrap everything and start from scratch. I was a Palm user back in the day. That Palm is long dead. The one that exists now is an embarrassment to the one that helped create the PDA market.
  16. Stihl's Avatar
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       #56  
    Phenomenal post and really the type of critical thinking I wish we had more of here.
    Last edited by Stihl; 03/20/2010 at 04:05 PM.
  17. slinky's Avatar
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    #57  
    All these posts are worthless hindsight.

    Someone needs to come up with a plan on:

    (1) How to sell almost 1 million unsold Palm units without taking a serious loss.

    (2) How to keep producing something so revenues are recorded.

    (3) How to stop the serious cash burn while all of this is taking place.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky View Post
    Someone needs to come up with a plan on:

    (1) How to sell almost 1 million unsold Palm units without taking a serious loss..
    That is a real problem. Authorized sellers are apparently having a hard time giving them away as these phones are frequently bogo or straight up free at various times and places. They can't sell them at any price which is a good indicator that they should stop trying. I think the brand is damaged beyond repair and has to be rebranded and relaunched.

    Additionally, These phones are already out of date. In six months, they will be museum pieces. Palm has to eat the loss and buy them back from dealers. They can gain some positive press by giving them away to disaster relief programs along with a special deal from Verizon and Sprint. Buying back the inventory is the only way the carriers will be willing to take a chance on yet another Palm product, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky View Post
    (2) How to keep producing something so revenues are recorded.
    Since Elevation Partners is still firmly behind them, Palm may not have to produce anything to record revenue. They may be able to focus on software updates and development of a new device.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky View Post
    (3) How to stop the serious cash burn while all of this is taking place.
    How deep are the pockets of the partners? By recalling the current stock from shelves, that eliminates the need to advertise. In the meantime, they might make a little money by producing their own paid apps for the catalogue. They could form a profit sharing partnership with Amazon and the carriers for OTA music downloads and video streams.

    I'm just blue skying here as I have no real answers to your very practical questions. It seems like business as usual is a bad idea. Going private would eliminate the handwringing over falling stock value. Developing a less adversarial relationships with the big players may help.

    One way to do that might be to write a PalmOS classic app for the iPad. How great would that be to run all those classic Palm apps on the new platform. That would give Palm a lot of great exposure and give an appearance of cooperation. MS and Google have found ways to work with Apple and not completely alienate the iPhone user base. Yet, they still compete fiercely. Palm needs to find a way to do the same.
  19. #59  
    [QUOTE=slinky;2319368(1) How to sell almost 1 million unsold Palm units without taking a serious loss.
    [/QUOTE]

    I thought it was 1 million shipped to stores, but 500,000 of those sold, and the other 500,000 on store shelves.

    Still bad, but not nearly as bad as a full million.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky View Post
    How to sell almost 1 million unsold Palm units without taking a serious loss.
    I thought it was 1 million shipped to stores, but 500,000 of those sold, and the other 500,000 on store shelves.

    Still bad, but not nearly as bad as a full million.
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