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  1.    #1  
    I am no linux expert, but have been trying to get to grips with basic level modding, and I got thinking, my pre on 1.4 (gsm pre with sprint OS), very often decides not enough memory is available...and then restarts luna, is it possible to allocate some of our lovely 8GB SSD as paging files to minimise this, or even increase the ram available?

    Edit: sorry...replace paging files for swap space
    Last edited by phil.hsr; 03/16/2010 at 07:30 PM.
  2. #2  
    I hate you!!!!
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    Just kidding. Maybe ask this on the development subform.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  3. #3  
    Brilliant! I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned before, the ssd should be plenty fast to stick an extra 512 of it to act as the Linux swap space. no idea how to go about it though... it would most likely require adding stuff the the kernel.
    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing
  4. vreihen's Avatar
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    #4  
    Remember, flash RAM has a limited number of write cycles before it breaks down. Using it as swap space (or page file for Windoze users) is not recommended on other platforms that utilize flash disk drives.....
  5. #5  
    Not quite true, there. Photoshop, in particular, benefits greatly from moving the swap file off the install drive to a secondary drive, on a small-ish partition, even on SSD drives. There's no particular reason not to. Plus, we're talking about a device here that might see two years service, three if you're poor and can't afford an upgrade right away. Flash memory lasts quite a bit longer than that, even under continuous use.

    I'm sure it would be possible, if the hardware can support it. Dual boot Linux/Windows systems use a swap partition to communicate between filesystems, after all.
  6.    #6  
    if you run swapon -s, it looks like their is already swap-store allocation, I'm looking into its prioritisation, effectiveness and how to expand this to more than 128KB which is what is originally allocated
  7.    #7  
    Ive have made 512MB of swap space on my pre, and edited the boot so that it sticks, all seems kosha, now need to test it out
  8. #8  
    can you post directions to this?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by phil.hsr View Post
    Ive have made 512MB of swap space on my pre, and edited the boot so that it sticks, all seems kosha, now need to test it out
    Have you noticed any difference and are you still getting the too many cards error?
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by rosenbaaron View Post
    can you post directions to this?
    Quote Originally Posted by mamouton View Post
    Have you noticed any difference and are you still getting the too many cards error?
    I am just in the pre-alpha testing, so unfortunately i have no patch for you too download, however, i was befor being bombarded with 'too many cards' on this plagued 1.4, however, it isnt AS bad now, still do if i try to ask it to do things unreasonably quick...however, i am looking into allocating a larger partition to more effectively swap files out of the ram....
  11. #11  
    Don't dismiss what vreihen said, every write to ssd degrades it slightly, too many and it's not worth the benefit.

    Also there is a sweat-spot of pagefile vs. ram size at about 1.5 : 1, too much larger and there is little benefit, if it doesn't cause additional problems with allocating too much to the pagefile where the ram would suffice.

    I would imagine if this was a fix it would've already done by Palm, I personally believe the Too Many Cards open errors are a mix of regulation and Garbage Collection problems not of actual Ram. (From what I can tell the Pre Plus' have the same problem, and they have twice the amount of actual ram.)
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by alex.dobeck View Post
    Don't dismiss what vreihen said, every write to ssd degrades it slightly, too many and it's not worth the benefit.

    Also there is a sweat-spot of pagefile vs. ram size at about 1.5 : 1, too much larger and there is little benefit, if it doesn't cause additional problems with allocating too much to the pagefile where the ram would suffice.

    I would imagine if this was a fix it would've already done by Palm, I personally believe the Too Many Cards open errors are a mix of regulation and Garbage Collection problems not of actual Ram. (From what I can tell the Pre Plus' have the same problem, and they have twice the amount of actual ram.)
    I understand this, I am just experimenting atm, and as far ar cycle degradation goes, could someone explain why having more swap partition would increase SSD cycle degradation, unless the swap partition isn't allocated on the same physical drive as the /media/internal/

    Also, as far as the 'sweet-spot' is concerned, I understand and agree, however, palm allocate only 128M of swap space, and with 256MB of ram, I would think allocating another 128M of swap space and increasing swap speed to move apps to the swap space should increase multitasking performance?
  13. #13  
    SSD's use a technology which simply wears out, the more times you write to a bit the more it wears out, until it fails. What's nice is when it does it can still be read so you don't actually have to worry about drive failure and loss of data. So when you place something like swap which constantly writes and reads to the same sectors on an SSD it can theoretically eat through the bits until a large portion wears out.

    The best way to improve multitasking performance would be to add more ram, basically what you see in the Pre Plus would be the best case, the SSD is much slower so it won't come close to that. What I've seen is the Pre plus also has problems with the Too Many Card Error, so the most I could see with a large Page-file size would allow you to open a few more Cards, but it almost appears the Card Error is unrelated to actual ram availability and based on usage or RAM demanded by running, or even recently ran, apps.

    If a pagefile did however cause webOS to think there was more available RAM, the page-file is slower so any cards forced into there will be much slower, possibly to the point where you'd wish you would just get the Too Many Cards so you could know when you need to restart Luna.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by alex.dobeck View Post
    SSD's use a technology which simply wears out, the more times you write to a bit the more it wears out, until it fails. What's nice is when it does it can still be read so you don't actually have to worry about drive failure and loss of data. So when you place something like swap which constantly writes and reads to the same sectors on an SSD it can theoretically eat through the bits until a large portion wears out.

    The best way to improve multitasking performance would be to add more ram, basically what you see in the Pre Plus would be the best case, the SSD is much slower so it won't come close to that. What I've seen is the Pre plus also has problems with the Too Many Card Error, so the most I could see with a large Page-file size would allow you to open a few more Cards, but it almost appears the Card Error is unrelated to actual ram availability and based on usage or RAM demanded by running, or even recently ran, apps.

    If a pagefile did however cause webOS to think there was more available RAM, the page-file is slower so any cards forced into there will be much slower, possibly to the point where you'd wish you would just get the Too Many Cards so you could know when you need to restart Luna.
    very nice explanation, thank you
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Remember, flash RAM has a limited number of write cycles before it breaks down. Using it as swap space (or page file for Windoze users) is not recommended on other platforms that utilize flash disk drives.....
    It's not that bad these days, is it? I seem to recall reading something about how the mtbf (or whatever the equivalent is) for flash chips have improved greatly, giving way to stuff like ReadyBoost on Windows 7.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    It's not that bad these days, is it? I seem to recall reading something about how the mtbf (or whatever the equivalent is) for flash chips have improved greatly, giving way to stuff like ReadyBoost on Windows 7.
    Flash chips have a max lifecycle of 100,000 read/writes on quality chips. Cheaper ones wear out faster. The more you use it, the faster it wears out. That said, under normal circumstances, flash memory can go three years or more without much hassle. I've got DDR RAM that's been actively used for five years, give or take, and its fine.

    I would be more concerned on the Pre if the expected lifespan of the entire device were five or six years. 99% of users will have swapped out for completely new hardware in two years.
  17. #17  
    any updates on this?
  18. #18  
    fdisk - Linux Command - Unix Command

    Webos doesn't seem to recongize fdisk or cfdisk in terminal though
  19. #19  
    They're talking about creating a swapfile, not repartitioning to include a swap partition. I too am interested in whether it had any benefits for you during testing. I'm not worried about ssd write failures because the sqllite DB and other logs are written there too. If it was such a problem, it wouldn't be used that way.

    Not looking for a patch, as I can do it myself. Just want to know your experience with it so far.

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