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  1. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #1  
    (hey PreCentral! Long time listener, first time Caller)

    Let me just go straight to the point. WebOS is hands down the best operating system I have ever seen for the majority of users out there.

    I have long been a power windows mobile user since the introduction of the k-jam from i-mate (google it, its pretty cool). All the hacking and rom cooking and modifications were awesome, but I haven't been really excited about a phone's release until the palm pre. Everything else was just a bigger faster reiteration of the same thing.

    Then WebOS came around and changed everthing. Intuitive controls, natural gestures, TRUE MULTI-TASKING!!!, etc. Granted the hardware sucks. Let's face it, It feels cheap and plasticky (I just made that up) but, I have owned the Tour, HTC hero and touch pro 2, within the last few months and I find myself inexplicably drawn back to the Pre. Once you get a taste of WebOS, it's hard to go back to anything else.

    So, Windows 7 Series comes along and I'm like: "ooooh, windows!" and all my XDA days of cooking and hacking come back to mind and I get kinda excited. But then I read the news of how Windows is going to run their platform. While I'm reading all I can think is, "Isn't this an I-phone?" Closed marketplace, non-removeable storage, no multi-tasking, etc. And I'm sure for a lot of people that will work fine (read:Apple's monumental success) but I don't think I can go back to life without "cards".

    So, as I close I give the obligatory Palm lamentation and request: Please Palm, continue to advertise the Power of WebOS (i.e. Life moves fast ads) but please upgrade the hardware to match the elegance and beauty of what in my humble opinion is the greatest OS ever to be made.

    So what do you all think? Does WebOS/Palm have what it takes to be a dominant player in the smartphone world? And in light of the recent developments, does Windows Phone 7 Series still look as appealing?
  2. #2  
    great post... Actually I do think webos has the power to upstage many of the smartphones out there but palm needs a better hardware device .. That really just draws people .. It's unfortunate that our society is plagued by people saying "oooooh shiny" instead of actually playing with and admiring a device for everything it can do for them... It's because we live in such a society that palm needs a device that will make people say "ooooh shiny" and that once in their hands will appreciate all the more..
  3. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #3  
    Thanks!....and I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion. How many times have you asked someone about a palm pre or webOS and they look at you like you were speaking dutch(verizon reps aside)? But when you showed them what WebOS could do they were wowed by the abilities of cards and what multi-tasking could actually do. I don't know about you but that happens to me all the time. But Like my company always says, It takes more than a great idea to be successful....
  4. #4  
    People need an opportunity to actually use WebOS. When I walk in a Best Buy or other store every phone is just a plastic mock-up. Naturally this would make the best looking or sturdier devices stand out, why do you think so many feature phones sell with the same data rate plans as smartphones. Palm needs to step up and show what can be done with this platform before its too late and all we have is closed source feature phones with less power than my old winmo 6 phone.
  5. #5  
    As an ex WinMo guy myself, I think even though people like you don't like the idea of WP7 being "closed", WinMo has been "open" for almost a decade and nothing "successful" came of it. WinMo was always the **** end of jokes in the mobile world, MS needed to revamp everything and go the direction of Stock iPhone and WebOS.

    I think WP7 will be VERY successful regardless of what the hacking community thinks, just remember, with XNA hacking is very possible. Look at the Zune HD which runs on the same code virtually. You can Preware a WebOS phone, you can jailbreak an iPhone, you sure as hell will be able to "hack" a WP7 too.
  6. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #6  
    Excellent point SportingLIons! I have no doubt that within weeks of a win7 phone being released the good people over at XDA will have a cooked rom for all those who want one (especially the HD2 Folks!!)

    And I agree that WINMO 'classic' was the **** of many jokes, many many jokes in the smartphone community but nevertheless it was the go-to phone for many. It was the industry standard for quite some time and took mobile productivity to another level. Now I'm not an expert on these things, so feel free to disagree but for my purposes winmo was awesome. It did take a level of tech savvy to keep it working right and prevent freeze-ups and crashes but for a tinkerer like myself, winmo was a joy.

    I applaud Microsoft (and apple) for giving people what they want. they are targeting the fat middle of smart phone users and that's great!When I first heard about win7 I almost got excited but as the details came out, it seemed less unique and more: "oh, like an iphone".... All I'm saying is WebOS should be a dominating force in the mobile community.

    Hardware aside, the features of webOS blow every other system out of the water. It's intuitive enough for everyday use, yet open enough for heavy duty hacking and patching (Web-OS Internals, thank you, thank you and thank you).

    @mvpilot172 you are right. Webos is so unique it needs to be experienced not just looked at. like I said earlier, once you try webos it's hard to go back to anything else.
  7. #7  
    I think Palm has everything - aside from sturdy, competitive hardware - to make a great first impression with WebOS already.

    What I think they're lacking in is the stuff to keep everyone engrossed past those dazzling first impressions.

    For power users, they shouldn't have to go into developer mode, have to load Preware, and keep up with it through patches just to get options like landscape email that have been available in competing platforms for forever. And look...I have a patched Pre, but I only load one must-have patch because I have enough issues without trying to figure what patch may be causing what random problem. Palm needs to sit down, figure out which patches are finally viable and stable enough, and make a myriad of options official OUT OF THE BOX. In fact...speaking of landscape email, why is so little of this OS operable in landscape mode? You watch movies in landscape, but the video app is portrait only. Same goes for YouTube. Same goes for most third party apps. It's like the Nokia N900, but in reverse. Not a good thing.

    For media users and gamers, Palm has got to solve the "Too Many Cards" memory error for the 1 million plus (and counting) WebOS devices already sold with only 256MB of RAM. It's just inexcusable, and you can't blame it on multitasking. I got the error on my Pre yesterday when I was watching a movie I loaded with no other programs running. Not when I loaded the movie, but 40 minutes into watching it. Looks amateur hour. Same for 3D games. There's no reason why an iPhone with identical guts and RAM using the same functionality as the PDK should be able to open and close 3D games at will and quickly while the Pre often requires lengthy restarts just to load one. Amateur hour.

    For productivity junkies and legacy Palm users, Palm needs to bite the bullet and get more killer PIM apps available. This obviously hasn't been a priority with the Rubinstein-era crew, but it needs to be.

    Palm is welcome to release new hardware with enough horsepower to minimize some of these issues. But the vast majority of WebOS users remain subject to being plagued by them, and that's a problem they need to solve to really get WebOS to a 2.0 (really 1.0, but I digress) state. Then, we can start talking about it being the future.
  8. djmcgee's Avatar
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    #8  
    In regards to the subject, WebOS is awesome. I have many friends with different kinds of phones (iPhones, Droid, etc.) and they are all impressed with WebOS. They aren't necessarily converts but without exception all have thought that WebOS was "cool", "smooth", "easy" and more

    I agree in that WebOS can upstage any other phone OS and does.

    Palm needs to keep kicking **** with updates and API's (mic access) and then improve the hardware with Pre II. I don't think they need to make major changes, just improvements. Metal frame, autofocus camera (3 MP is fine), SD card slot, more storage, more RAM, etc.
  9. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #9  
    @mikah912 I agree and those concerns definately have been expressed before. My problem is how did the original iphone sell 1 Million units in under 6 months when it was arguably one of the "dumbest" smart phones to come out? (hypothetical question, please) Now I don't want this to be an iphone bashing thread, I'm just posing the statement that WebOS, even with all its shortcomings, is more capable, more intuitive, more productive, and more elegant of any os to date, imho.

    win7 series had a chance to take some of the thunder out of palm's sails. Heck, I was even thinking about going to win7. But at MIX, the announcements of what win7 series really is makes it unappealing. and makes webos even more of a viable long-term option for me.

    It's unthinkable for me to go to a phone where notifications interrupt what I'm doing, or to not be able to swipe to my calendar during a call, and then keep playing need for speed after I hang up. Webos has made those things non-negotiables for me....
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by fashigidig View Post
    @mikah912 I agree and those concerns definately have been expressed before. My problem is how did the original iphone sell 1 Million units in under 6 months when it was arguably one of the "dumbest" smart phones to come out? (hypothetical question, please) Now I don't want this to be an iphone bashing thread, I'm just posing the statement that WebOS, even with all its shortcomings, is more capable, more intuitive, more productive, and more elegant of any os to date, imho.
    To answer your question, it did what it promised to do. It promised an unprecedented mobile web experience. It delivered. It promised a next-gen iPod in your phone. It delivered. It promised a smooth and intuitive experience. It delivered. So on and so forth.

    By contrast, the Pre promises great multitasking, which it does mostly...until you start running into "Too Many Cards" errors and being unable to play 3D games without restarts. It promises a great form compact form factor, which it offers mostly...but the hardware is a lottery ticket. You may go through 7 in 6 months, or you may get it right the first time. It's the luck of the draw. Caveats mean something when you promise one experience and don't fully deliver.

    win7 series had a chance to take some of the thunder out of palm's sails. Heck, I was even thinking about going to win7. But at MIX, the announcements of what win7 series really is makes it unappealing. and makes webos even more of a viable long-term option for me.

    It's unthinkable for me to go to a phone where notifications interrupt what I'm doing, or to not be able to swipe to my calendar during a call, and then keep playing need for speed after I hang up. Webos has made those things non-negotiables for me....
    I respect that, but like many WebOS experiences, YMMV. For me, I would never bother with Need for Speed after trying two Gameloft "free" edition games and seeing that I got repeated "Too Many Cards" errors before and after running them. Talk about interrupting what you're doing! A restart is the ultimate interruption.

    And I don't just get it with 3D games. I got it while watching a movie. I get it when I keep 3-4 web pages open for more than two hours or so.

    Honestly, Android is the closest I've seen a platform get to delivering truly unobtrusive experience int terms of letting me open any program I want to and keep notifications out of my way until I want to deal with them. I think WebOS has a better UI and a more modern look. Hopefully, either WebOS or Android will get what the other is missing, or WM7 will split the difference.

    But no platform is there yet. Not iPhone. Not Android. Not WM7. And not WebOS.
  11. #11  
    WebOS 1.0 was a great start. WebOS 2.0 has to be stellar. Period.

    Jon Rubenstein knew years ago that the market was going to get super competative. He's a smart man. And I actually think everyone will be pleasantly surprised. But Palm better have big things planned for the next WebOS if they want to stay in the game. If they do, then yes, it will be possible for Apple, and Google, and Windows, and RIM to duke it out for a while.
  12. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    To answer your question, it did what it promised to do. It promised an unprecedented mobile web experience. It delivered. It promised a next-gen iPod in your phone. It delivered. It promised a smooth and intuitive experience. It delivered. So on and so forth.


    Honestly, Android is the closest I've seen a platform get to delivering truly unobtrusive experience int terms of letting me open any program I want to and keep notifications out of my way until I want to deal with them. I think WebOS has a better UI and a more modern look. Hopefully, either WebOS or Android will get what the other is missing, or WM7 will split the difference.

    You know your first point about delivering on promises is spot on. (man, Did I just say spot on? wow) In studies conducted on McDonald's about why they are so popluar with sub-standard food, consistency and met expectations were the leading reason. People tend to flock to where they know what they are going to get even if what they get isn't that great... So, I see your point and I definately agree.

    Secondly, any maybe you can help me with this, I don't see the appeal of android. I've had the Hero for a while but ended up giving it to my wife and going back to the pre. Android seems as basic as an operating system can get. I hear about how android is the utopia of open source and freedom from tyranny, etc. but it really does nothing for me. But I guess to your first point, it does what it promises to do, even if those promises are not as lofty as webos....
  13. #13  
    Appeal of Android is easy.

    Kinda iPhone-esque UI + available on non-AT&T carriers + variety of form factors + Has (plainer) versions of most iPhone apps + Hey, it's from Google + For the most part, works as advertised = There ya go.
  14. #14  
    The webos style interface won't be the future of mobile devices until apple "invents" it w/their G4 multitasking.
  15. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by freeridstylee View Post
    The webos style interface won't be the future of mobile devices until apple "invents" it w/their G4 multitasking.
    LOL!! wouldn't be surprised... Apple does have an uncanny way of taking existing features and marketing them a whole lot better.

    Several of my iphone friends are always like: "man, my phone is great! I get email right on my phone! I can browse the web and watch movies!" Meanwhile I'm thinking, wow, those features have been on phones for years. Albeit apple has done a much better on the implementation and out-of-the-box-it-just-works factor. But yea, I wouldn't be too surprised to see card style multi-tasking on the next iphone and then everyone falling in love with it!!

    to be fair though Apple is pretty innovative in most of their products. It's their out-of the box thinking and user friendly interfaces that have made them the phenomenal success that they are--
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by SportingLions View Post
    I think WP7 will be VERY successful regardless of what the hacking community thinks, just remember, with XNA hacking is very possible. Look at the Zune HD which runs on the same code virtually. You can Preware a WebOS phone, you can jailbreak an iPhone, you sure as hell will be able to "hack" a WP7 too.
    To be fair, WebOS lets you play with it by design. You don't have to root it or h4xx0r it to get access to customize it. It's just a bunch of javascript running on a linux platform.

    It's the biggest reason I own one
  17. fashigidig's Avatar
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       #17  
    @knobbysideup do you think the days of tinkering, rom cooking, patching, tweaking, are coming to an end as we now know it. Not to say that it will ever go away, but with win7 series and apple going to a more closed model of development and distrubition and a much more controlled user interface, one has to look down the road and wonder.

    The crazy thing is it seems to have been worth it. win7 is going to be a huge success to the general populace(probably), to the disdain of many tweakers, hackers, patchers, etc.

    what say you of the future? Is that closed, more controlled model just better for business?
  18. section803's Avatar
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    #18  
    Not to change direction of the conversation....but I think Palm should really look into making a tablet running on WebOS. That would be freaking awesome!!!!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by section803 View Post
    Not to change direction of the conversation....but I think Palm should really look into making a tablet running on WebOS. That would be freaking awesome!!!!
    They need to worry about selling their phones first. I'm all for them licensing Webos to a tablet company though.
  20. cgk
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    #20  
    Does WebOS/Palm have what it takes to be a dominant player in the smartphone world?
    No, the technical merits of WEBOS are neither here nor there, Palm simply don't sell enough units to be a) dominant or b) simply to stay in business for much longer as an independent company.

    You can be making the best cakes in the world but if nobody takes a bite it matters not a jot.

    Microsoft have been very smart - the people who want to tinker with their phones (and I'm one of them) are a small percentage, most people want something that works and a single easy to access location to get 'approved' apps, the money is in shifting units and selling apps - it's not in having the best OS that nobody actually uses or pays for.
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