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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Palm's top 5 mistakes since webOS?

    5. Not much effort on Palm's part to promote touchstone, develop in-car version, etc.

    4. Bad quality Pre's. It's like a box of chocolates right?

    3. The Pixi.

    2. Some of the worst ads ever. Fails to show off the OS. Fails to recapture those CES moments.

    and drumroll...and probably not what you're expecting and JMO..

    1. Failed to stick with sprint for a longer term exclusive like 1-2 years. Palm would've had more cash, longer time to incubate, and work on 1.x issues. Both would have benefited more if done right.

    I agree, but would have flipped #1 & 2 because selling more units would have generated more cash and possibly investment capital at the outset. If you notice latest ads for that other smart phone, it hits at the heart of what Palm should have been aiming for in their pitch - "Look at all the neat things you can do with this phone at the same time (with accompanying visuals)." Unfortunately, as someone else pointed out, changing marketing scheme would be too little, too late.

    I love my Pre!!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Herbie, you're the best. I'd be insulted at your lack of manners, but I know when you say "stupid", you really mean that you don't understand it (well...that and a lot of other things). No prob. I got you, baby.

    Yes, when someone uses the present tense in a sentence, they generally mean "right now." The Pre and the Pixi - as viable devices that will substantially increase mindshare, profitability, and viability for Palm - are toast.
    LoL, i love when you guys go at it. It's been awhile.
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    #23  
    Palm is a relatively small firm in a very volatile market. The stock price reflects that. Remember this about the analysts - these were the same people in 2001 talking about NASDAQ 10,000. Right now its at about 2255. They were the same people 3 years ago saying real estate prices would never go down. They were wrong on that one too. Where were they 6 months ago when PALM was at it's recent high? Were they saying Palm was going to take over the smartphone world? No. But now at a low they are saying Palm is done. When it comes to predictions, you are better off with a magic 8 ball app than the so-called expert analysts.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    LoL, i love when you guys go at it. It's been awhile.
    Eh, nothing to go at. I like Herbie. Especially when he gets his panties in a bunch. But I'm not being negative. Just observant. Very, very few smartphones these days have a viable life beyond or even at 12 months. I mean, I like my HTC Hero, but it, too, will be toast after Sprint officially throws 2.1 on there in the next month or two. That's why HTC is prepping the Legend as a direct replacement. Just read an article about Verizon EOLing the Droid Eris when the HTC Desire is ready to launch. Makes sense, even though it just launched less than six months ago.

    Palm launched the devices. First impressions have been made and cemented. Sales were lacking. Still are according to Rubinstein himself. "Palm advocates" or whatever they call them training Verizon employees aint gonna fix it. Neither are "different" ads that would suck up way too much of Palm's tiny war chest.

    I mean, at a certain point, you have to stop CPR and call it. With resources limited, throwing any good money after bad is a fatal mistake, so Palm needs to unveil what's next sooner rather than later.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Herbie, you're the best. I'd be insulted at your lack of manners, but I know when you say "stupid", you really mean that you don't understand it (well...that and a lot of other things). No prob. I got you, baby.

    Yes, when someone uses the present tense in a sentence, they generally mean "right now." The Pre and the Pixi - as viable devices that will substantially increase mindshare, profitability, and viability for Palm - are toast.
    Lots of qualifiers in there, enough to make the statement meaningless (by the way, that was what I meant by "stupid" - a meaningless statement simply meant to inflame).
    Define "substantially", as it applies to profitability and viability.
    Palm, right now, is still a viable company, and the Pixi and Pre are their only products; so unless you add some pretty liberal meaning to the word "substantially", you are factually incorrect in your assessment.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by PIKCACHU20 View Post
    Well if you base off of a trending chart as in the diagram in the article it is an accurate assessment. However it is not a conclusive finding as stock can rebound on a whim.
    That all depends on how far back you measure the trending. If you go back to December of 2009, the "trend" is to gain about .75 a month. The drastic downturn was recent.

    There is no doubt that Palm is a volatile stock. That's why you can't make predictive assessments like that.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Lots of qualifiers in there, enough to make the statement meaningless (by the way, that was what I meant by "stupid" - a meaningless statement simply meant to inflame).
    Define "substantially", as it applies to profitability and viability.
    Palm, right now, is still a viable company, and the Pixi and Pre are their only products; so unless you add some pretty liberal meaning to the word "substantially", you are factually incorrect in your assessment.
    No, I'm not, actually.

    Their viability dwindles with each quarter of results announced where they have to revise sales expectations downward, stop production, and reveal that they have six figures of devices sitting on store shelves unsold. As you so accurately noted, these are their only products, so the Pre and Pixi are toast in terms of reversing these grim trends and restoring lost viability and profitability.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    LoL, i love when you guys go at it. It's been awhile.
    I'm just amazed that anyone can have such a deep level of "buyer's remorse" that they have to insist that everyone believe they too have somehow screwed up their lives by buying a Pre (or Pixie).

    The dude's been harping on how awful the devices are for what, about 3 months after they came out? Are phone choices so few that he can't find one he likes and go there? Amazing.
  9. #29  
    Herb, I know you can be slow on the uptake sometimes, but, uh....I did get another device and I have both it and the Pre and switch as desired. Have mentioned this repeatedly for about five months now.
  10. #30  
    Anyone ever mention that argueing over the internet is stupid.....

    Anywho, I feel that this is not the PALM everyone knew in the old days. This is a new company all together. They are bringing a completely different product. Yeah there not doing the greatest. But its not like there doing terrible. Theres worse companies out there that still exist today.

    People arn't giving palm any credit here. Its all about the stock to them. Judging a book by its cover thats all there doing.
  11. #31  
    You guys keep beating the drum of marketing. There is nothing remotely flashy about iPhone ads. The ads for the Pre have not been great, I admit, but not so much worse as to explain its lack of popularity. The Pre is now being sold on big red, supposedly a better network than the iPhone. It has similar, in some cases, identical UI implementation. iPhone apps are being ported to the Pre. The Pre has built in Flash support, which will never happen on the iPhone. Combine all that with price. It is now possible to pay less up front for a Pre than an iPhone 3G. In fact, Pres have been given away in the form of BOGO deals. Many venders are selling it for less than $40. It is a free phone for all intents and purposes. Yet it still does not move. The Pre, in the minds of consumers is not comparable to the iPhone at any price. There is something bigger going on than simple marketing.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You guys keep beating the drum of marketing. There is nothing remotely flashy about iPhone ads. The ads for the Pre have not been great, I admit, but not so much worse as to explain its lack of popularity. The Pre is now being sold on big red, supposedly a better network than the iPhone. It has similar, in some cases, identical UI implementation. iPhone apps are being ported to the Pre. The Pre has built in Flash support, which will never happen on the iPhone. Combine all that with price. It is now possible to pay less up front for a Pre than an iPhone 3G. In fact, Pres have been given away in the form of BOGO deals. Many venders are selling it for less than $40. It is a free phone for all intents and purposes. Yet it still does not move. The Pre, in the minds of consumers is not comparable to the iPhone at any price. There is something bigger going on than simple marketing.
    I think, strictly in my humble opinion, that part of the problem is that Palm and each of their carriers have failed to define what a Pre and, by extension, WebOS actually does.

    People here scream "Multitasking!" all day long, but in the minds of most consumers, multitasking is a WAY of doing something, not something you do in and of itself. An implementation, if you will. I mean, Blackberries - as ancient as they are - thrive because they hammered home that these are devices for communication, whether it be email or BBM. Once Apple introduced an ondevice app store, they redefined the iPhone as a device that does....well, everything. Even stuff you didn't know needed doing. Droid commercials focused on TRUE universal Google/device search and Google navigation apps.

    What does the Pre actually DO that's unique? What does it do that sets it apart from these competitors? The native apps are barebones. The most robust third party apps are ports of iPhone games. Google Maps on it is a molasses-slow Web app and Sprint Navigation is available on almost any Sprint device out right now. Synergy is part of Android 2.0. What's that leave?

    Palm can fix the hardware issues with a bigger, more powerful device with fewer moving parts. But they still have to define what it does and who is it for. "The fat middle" obviously aint cutting it, and the fact that each carrier's ads vary so wildly shows how vague and enigmatic the identity of this platform is. That's the problem that's gotta be solved before anything else, I think.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I think, strictly in my humble opinion, that part of the problem is that Palm and each of their carriers have failed to define what a Pre and, by extension, WebOS actually does.

    People here scream "Multitasking!" all day long, but in the minds of most consumers, multitasking is a WAY of doing something, not something you do in and of itself. An implementation, if you will. I mean, Blackberries - as ancient as they are - thrive because they hammered home that these are devices for communication, whether it be email or BBM. Once Apple introduced an ondevice app store, they redefined the iPhone as a device that does....well, everything. Even stuff you didn't know needed doing. Droid commercials focused on TRUE universal Google/device search and Google navigation apps.

    What does the Pre actually DO that's unique? What does it do that sets it apart from these competitors? The native apps are barebones. The most robust third party apps are ports of iPhone games. Google Maps on it is a molasses-slow Web app and Sprint Navigation is available on almost any Sprint device out right now. Synergy is part of Android 2.0. What's that leave?

    Palm can fix the hardware issues with a bigger, more powerful device with fewer moving parts. But they still have to define what it does and who is it for. "The fat middle" obviously aint cutting it, and the fact that each carrier's ads vary so wildly shows how vague and enigmatic the identity of this platform is. That's the problem that's gotta be solved before anything else, I think.
    first thing that you said that i agree with
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Herb, I know you can be slow on the uptake sometimes, but, uh....I did get another device and I have both it and the Pre and switch as desired. Have mentioned this repeatedly for about five months now.
    Speaking of "slow on the uptake", I gues you just don't read very well. Try again:

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm just amazed that anyone can have such a deep level of "buyer's remorse" that they have to insist that everyone believe they too have somehow screwed up their lives by buying a Pre (or Pixie).

    The dude's been harping on how awful the devices are for what, about 3 months after they came out? Are phone choices so few that he can't find one he likes and go there? Amazing.
    My point wasn't that you can't find a device you like, my point was you keep returning to the forum for the doomed device you don't like. The further point was that you seem so intent on evangelizing your belief.

    Sorry I had to spell it out for you, though I'm not surprised that I needed to.
  15. #35  
    Evangelizing beliefs? LOL. Hyperbolic much, Herbie? I'm so anti-Pre that today I told someone curious about jumping ship to another Sprint phone to stay put and see what every manufacturer including Palm puts out come summer. I'm so anti-Palm that I laid out why I think sales are stagnant a post ago in such a trolling and negative manner that Sketch42 agreed with me. I guess I "converted" him with my evil charisma?

    I "return" to these forums for this device not to evangelize but to learn about and discuss matters pertaining to this smartphone I paid a couple of hundred dollars for on day one, which seems prudent to me, not trollish. You're so emotional, though, I can see how you'd see things differently. I like you, Herbie. I just hate that I hurt your feelings so much. It's not intentional, buddy.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Evangelizing beliefs? LOL. Hyperbolic much, Herbie? I'm so anti-Pre that today I told someone curious about jumping ship to another Sprint phone to stay put and see what every manufacturer including Palm puts out come summer.
    What??? Yet just a few messages back, you said the Pre and Pixi are "toast". Not "might be", not "could be", but simply "toast".

    Then when invited to clarifiy, you said that Palm's offerings cannot return viability or profitability to the company. What's to look for? The only offerings the company has are "toast" (according to you).

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I "return" to these forums for this device not to evangelize but to learn about and discuss matters pertaining to this smartphone I paid a couple of hundred dollars for on day one, which seems prudent to me, not trollish. You're so emotional, though, I can see how you'd see things differently. I like you, Herbie. I just hate that I hurt your feelings so much. It's not intentional, buddy.
    Excellent. If that is really your purpose, then why the nonsensical statements like "the Pre and Pixi are toast" (when in fact, I find mine continually more useful".

    I never stated you were "trollish", and since you bring up "emotional", all I did was say that your statement was stupid (it was). You chimed in with the "slow on the uptake" nonsense. So please, chill down a bit. If you're here to learn, then all you have to do is read. However, when you chime in with nonsense like your post a few comments back, yes, I'll respond with my opinion. It's not "emotional" (unless you want to count the small grin I have as I type these things).

    I'm really sorry for your experience; however, that's all it is, your experience. There are many of us that are satisified with our purchase, continue to find our devices increasing in usefulness, and anticipate a bright future with them.
  17. #37  
    Observing the increasing length, silly name-calling and rambling nature of your responses, you clearly have not gotten emotional as a result of what I said, Herbie. No, sir.

    It's ok. I get the transference too. If you want to pretend that the Pre and Pixi have a "bright future" ahead of them, have at it. I have no interest in popping your bubble. I'll be interested, however, in revisiting your opinion in the light (or should I say "dark") of Palm's latest financials eight days from now. Should be fun for all. Have a good day, Herbie.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Observing the increasing length, silly name-calling and rambling nature of your responses, you clearly have not gotten emotional as a result of what I said, Herbie. No, sir.

    It's ok. I get the transference too. If you want to pretend that the Pre and Pixi have a "bright future" ahead of them, have at it. I have no interest in popping your bubble. I'll be interested, however, in revisiting your opinion in the light (or should I say "dark") of Palm's latest financials eight days from now. Should be fun for all. Have a good day, Herbie.
    I invite you to read again, I didn't call you any names. I simply said your statement was stupid (and I stand by that remark, since I'm still using my "toast").

    I don't think Palm's announcements in 8 days will immediately affect my Pre, or my wife's Pixi. You apparently feel different. Well, let me rephrase, you feel that both are already "toast", so nothing Palm announces should affect that (unless they offer butter and jam for our "toast").

    I've added it to my "toasty" calendar (which still works) to come back and let you know in 8 days if that somehow changed.
  19. #39  
    Herbie, I have a friend who owns and loves - to this day - his Sega Dreamcast. Works like a charm. That platform is and has been toast for quite some time. You're welcome.

    Sincerely,
    Mikah912.
  20. #40  
    for the record i dont believe that the pre/pixi are toast, just not enough ATM to push palm forward.

    However WebOS has a very bright future and IT will push palm forward, provided they market it properly.
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