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  1. #21  
    I shouldn't have to do a workaround to get my phone to locate itself. I shouldnt have to dial ##GPS#, I shouldn't have to load up VZ, I should be able to flip it open and go.

    Your friend: "Dude, how do I get your slick new phone to work with GPS?"

    You: "Well, first load the phone app and dial ##..."

    No. Time to fix it.
  2. gravage's Avatar
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       #22  
    If it really is something Verizon is doing, though, why just do it to the Pre? Why does the Droid GPS work fine (I have one)? There's really no reason for Verizon to sabotage the Pre's GPS and leave the others alone. They could sell VZ Nav with all of their phones if they crippled the GPS in them.
  3. uriel0731's Avatar
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    #23  
    Having come from a BB Storm as an early adopter just wanted to share almost identical experience. When google maps was launched for Storm it was impossible to get a location "lock", turned out google maps relied on A-GPS and Verizon would not allow Assistance from towers for the google maps app. Was this way for a little over a month and voila, started working using A-GPS. Don't recall details but essentially came down to VZW allowing tower assitance to GPS on the Storm.

    This "feels" like it is exactly the same issue, with no assistance from tower google maps just does not get a good lock on your location (especially if moving), it seems as if launching VZNav does a quick cell tower triangulation (i.e. assist) so GPS gets a lock.

    I certainly am not claiming to "know" this to be true but sure feels the same as when Storm had almost identical issue.

    If anyone has the time I am sure there are countless threads on the issue available for search on Crackberry site, might offer a bit of insight.

    My 2 cents, just toss the pennies if you don't want em.
    Last edited by uriel1971; 03/03/2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason: typo
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by friguy3 View Post
    People need to call and complain. Remember...the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
    I put in a call to Verizon yesterday. The tech svcs guy actually tried to tell me it was a Google issue. I explained that even a GPS test couldn't acquire a signal. He finally got a Pre in front of him, and I walked him through how to run the test (yes, I did). And, he got the same results as me. So, he finally agreed to pursue the issue.

    I guess we'll see if I hear anything back.
    Nicky
  5. #25  
    I can't even get a lock with VZ Nav open anymore since 1.4. Prior, it would lock fine if VZ Nav was open

    EDIT: Check that.... worked as usual (with VZNav open) when I walked outside. Couldn't get a lock earlier when in a car
    Last edited by gregmusi; 03/03/2010 at 01:03 PM.
  6. gravage's Avatar
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       #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregmusi View Post
    I can't even get a lock with VZ Nav open anymore since 1.4. Prior, it would lock fine if VZ Nav was open

    EDIT: Check that.... worked as usual (with VZNav open) when I walked outside. Couldn't get a lock earlier when in a car
    The sad part is, the GPS is awesome on the droid. It gets a lock inside of a car and buildings (it would have to to be used as a navigation device with google nav), but I like Web OS so much better, I parked the droid.

    I guess you can never have it all. Every device is missing something, but a GPS is sort of important to me. I use it for everything. If I can't get a lock when I'm wandering around downtown looking for something, it's not much good to me.
  7. #27  
    It's just weird that they do this to the Pre but the Android devices (like my Droid which has full navigation), Blackberry, and WinMo can use their GPS freely with any software. That's why I think there is a bug somewhere and we need to have Palm acknowledge it.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    I believe they may have had "Use Google Services" enabled in location services, in the preferences menu, along with GPS. This uses the phone network's towers and utilized triangulation. I had this enabled when mine was working originally, but when I disabled this and only used GPS it would not work. I could not get this to work on all 5 Pre phones I had access to, as well as 2 on the sales floor in the Verizon stores. The Palm technician I spoke to also mentioned that Verizon did disable this to promote the sales of their product....

    I'd be curious to know if they had this option enabled on theirs - can you let us know?
    I'll let you know tonight what settings they have on their phones.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by JPDVM2014 View Post
    I was just using my GPS yesterday to test out GeoStrings. Mine works fine and I've never started VZNav. And no, Google Services is not on. All I do is turn on my gps and dial ##GPS# and it got a lock within 30-45 seconds. And I close that app and open Google Maps and it works fine.
    In case you didn't know, there is a "GPS Fix" option on the GeoStrings help screen that lets you dial the ##GPS# number with the tap of a single button for those times when you need to re-establish your GPS fix.
    Quick Post: The quick way to post messages and photos to Twitter & Facebook (video link)
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    Twitter: @Hedami
  10. uriel0731's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by greyhulk View Post
    If it really is something Verizon is doing, though, why just do it to the Pre? Why does the Droid GPS work fine (I have one)? There's really no reason for Verizon to sabotage the Pre's GPS and leave the others alone. They could sell VZ Nav with all of their phones if they crippled the GPS in them.
    This is not to say VZW is intentionally "crippling" the Palm GPS, BUT.... VZNav is not available on Android phones.
  11. gravage's Avatar
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       #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by uriel1971 View Post
    This is not to say VZW is intentionally "crippling" the Palm GPS, BUT.... VZNav is not available on Android phones.
    That's because it would have to compete with Google Nav and it would lose...horribly.
  12. #32  
    What a bunch of conspiracy theorists!?!?! First of all, I fork over the $10 a month for VZNav because I find it infinitely more useful than Google Maps - wish I didn't have to, but that's that. And I'm not a GPS specialist, so I don't know the science, but I can relate what I know from my limited experience.

    If you're having trouble - have you checked to make sure that Use Google Services is enabled in Location Services? The thing is that Verizon cell phones use assisted GPS for location. You need the tower triangulation to tell the phone which satellites to look for or else it can take a long time [sometimes 15 mins or more] to get that lock. Turning on Use Google Services [you are trying to use google services after all] passes along the triangulation information to Google Maps. Opening VZNav in the background does the same thing.

    If you have Use Google Services enabled and you're still having trouble - then that could be a bug somewhere or a problem with the device - or maybe you need to wait just a little longer. And yes I pay for VZNav, but I have the same trouble with locating in Google Maps if VZNav is not open and Google Services is turned off. Verizon is not preventing the use of GPS in Google Maps - in fact, they have provided a switch in Location Services to make it even more useful.
  13. gravage's Avatar
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by rixpre2010 View Post
    What a bunch of conspiracy theorists!?!?! First of all, I fork over the $10 a month for VZNav because I find it infinitely more useful than Google Maps - wish I didn't have to, but that's that. And I'm not a GPS specialist, so I don't know the science, but I can relate what I know from my limited experience.

    If you're having trouble - have you checked to make sure that Use Google Services is enabled in Location Services? The thing is that Verizon cell phones use assisted GPS for location. You need the tower triangulation to tell the phone which satellites to look for or else it can take a long time [sometimes 15 mins or more] to get that lock. Turning on Use Google Services [you are trying to use google services after all] passes along the triangulation information to Google Maps. Opening VZNav in the background does the same thing.

    If you have Use Google Services enabled and you're still having trouble - then that could be a bug somewhere or a problem with the device - or maybe you need to wait just a little longer. And yes I pay for VZNav, but I have the same trouble with locating in Google Maps if VZNav is not open and Google Services is turned off. Verizon is not preventing the use of GPS in Google Maps - in fact, they have provided a switch in Location Services to make it even more useful.
    If you had bothered to read any of the posts above before you posted, you would have seen that we are well aware of the location services switch and it doesn't make a difference whether it is on or off (though off seems to make it worse). I'm not suggesting a conspiracy. I just want an answer/fix for an otherwise great device.

    And good for you for paying $10/month for a service you can get for free elsewhere. Someone has to line Verizon's pockets. I won't argue that it's probably a great service, but it's certainly not worth $10/month unless you just feel like ****ing that money away.

    I had the Sprint Pre for a brief period of time and I can verify that this isn't a problem on that device. The reason I suggested that it was Verizon's build of WebOS is because the hardware is nearly identical (though I haven't been able to find detailed specs on either gps unit) and that would also be why I started this thread asking if anyone had noticed a change since the 1.4 update, since our Verizon version is custom. Since our update didn't fix this problem, it can only mean one of two things: A) Palm isn't aware of the issue, B) Verizon wants it that way.

    That's not a conspiracy. That's a fact.
  14. #34  
    I have a potential solution, not entirely sure if this is even possible.

    So we've come to the consensus that if wi-fi is enabled, the gps gets a quick lock and is relatively spot on. Only issue is that, like many of you, I don't want to kill my battery life by keeping wi-fi on all day.

    I'm no computer science major but would it be possible to engineer a patch that would enable the wi-fi to be "on" to help GPS but only have it search for networks when we turn off the patch?

    Not sure if this makes any sense but basically i want a way to keep wi-fi on ALL THE TIME but only have it really lock on to a network when I turn the patch off.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by greyhulk View Post
    If you had bothered to read any of the posts above before you posted, you would have seen that we are well aware of the location services switch and it doesn't make a difference whether it is on or off (though off seems to make it worse).
    Actually, I did read all of the posts above and the only reference to the Google Services switch clearly says the exact opposite:

    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    I believe they may have had "Use Google Services" enabled in location services, in the preferences menu, along with GPS. This uses the phone network's towers and utilized triangulation. I had this enabled when mine was working originally, but when I disabled this and only used GPS it would not work.
    My Google Maps works perfectly unless I turn off Use Google Services. The point is the GPS services do work, so any difficulty you are having may be more of a limited problem and not a universal issue.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by rixpre2010 View Post
    My Google Maps works perfectly unless I turn off Use Google Services. The point is the GPS services do work, so any difficulty you are having may be more of a limited problem and not a universal issue.
    If what you typed above is not in error, this is exactly what we are stating. That when Google Services are OFF, GPS on our phones do not work at all. Google Services uses triangulation from cell towers. While this can sometimes offer a location, it is by no means accurate. In fact, at times it will place me 1/2 to 1 mile away.

    I am fairly confident that this is not hardware but rather software for 3 reasons (of which I have already stated above)

    1) Sprint Pre phones are insanely accurate when only the GPS option is on and grab a signal within a few seconds - not waiting that long.
    2) Palm technicians have come out and said to me that Verizon did disable the service to promote their VZ navigator (this was not my thought process)
    3) As mentioned in another thread on this forum, there are some GPS options disabled in the Palm Pre Plus.

    Based on Verizon's previous track record, this is not unusual at all which is why it's not far reaching. They have a history of doing things such as this and have lawsuits to prove it.

    In regards to Android and why Verizon didn't block it's NAV is because that was one of the hot points of the DROID when it was released (the fact that you can do street view in the nav)

    On a personal note, it also wouldn't surprise me if VZ is getting some sort of commission from Google since VZ can't sell their software on the Droid (their nav pales in comparison). It may also be why they're pushing the phone so hard....
  17. #37  
    With so many problems/complaints with verizon, i'm surprised so many people are willing to stay with them. Everyday there are several new threads complaining about verizon specifically, yet people flock to them to pay MORE for the same service you can get with sprint...if you really want vz to respond, hit them where it hurts and threaten to leave...if they aren't fixing the problems, I don't see why people stay. People say that vz service is so much better, but I bet the majority of people with vz would find little difference with sprint (unless you're far outside metropolitan areas). Aside from the "plus," I just don't get why people pay more to stay with vz.
  18. #38  
    kkumar99, please don't bring that in here. We already have enough of those threads. People have their reasons.

    sf_basilix, if #2 on your list is true, we need to do 2 things about this. First we need to get either Palm or Verizon to acknowledge that they did mess with the GPS. We need to get on their assets* for allowing Verizon's other phones GPS's (Blackberry, WinMo, etc) to play nice with other programs and not on Palms phones. They need to fix this.

    Second thing is we need to ask the developers that make patches or hack WebOS to make a way around this if possible.

    Quick question: What happens with an application that uses a GPS signal other than Google Maps, does it still work?
  19. #39  
    Well, being a Sprint customer, I have no problems using the GPS without Sprint Nav running. I used Garmin XT on my old phone, technically bypassing Sprint Nav without an issue. Sprint's app is actually better than Garmin's, but whatever.

    Whatever is going on for you guys, I'm strongly suspecting Verizon. OS makers send an unmodified version out to the carrier, who modifies the ROM with their service apps, and it gets installed on the phone. Palm doesn't do that. My OS is obviously the same as yours. Verizon has locked your GPS to their app for whatever reason, and I doubt you'd get them to change. My mom has a similar quandry with her little flip phone. It's got a music player, and a memory slot, but she can't load non-Vcast music on the card and play it. It has to be purchased from Verizon. Actually, I'm rather surpised Verizon didn't lock that as well, Sprint wouldn't, since they don't have a music store.

    I'd start knocking on Verizon's door, this is going to be a problem on their end.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by greyhulk View Post
    Okay, I just went outside to test it. I regret to report that Google Maps did NOT get a lock within 5 minutes under an open sky. As soon as I opened VZ Navigator in the background, it got an instant lock. As soon as I closed VZ Navigator, it lost the lock. I didn't wait to see if it reacquired a lock on its own.

    This is really disappointing. Verizon needs to address this.
    Exactly the same experience for me.

    Would like Garmin Mobile XT for webOS. $100 +/- purchase price. Done. No monthly charges.
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