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  1.    #1  
    I really want Palm to succeed since competition is good for consumers. However, Palm lacks a scalable platform/ecosystem that is a key success factor in the smartphone world. Apple & Microsoft have platforms from their computer/music player experience, RIM has a solid enterprise platform, and even Google has great web platform (gmail, search, google docs/calendar, etc). And of course Nokia has it's own maps program and a huge installed base of Symbian devices. What does Palm have other than some great features like Synergy, visual multitasking, etc that will ultimately get copied and improved by all competitors?

    Also, recent data shows that the smartphone market is currently a small subset of the overall mobile phone market. That's not surprising since getting a smartphone means consumer have to pay extra for data.

    So here's the question: would Palm be better off positioning the Pixi (and Pre?) as a feature phone (a solid one at that) and convincing the carriers to offer it as such?
  2. #2  
    well they should at least offer it to sero customers on sprint, I have a few friends that are on sero and will not drop their plain for the pre or pixi
  3. #3  
    Without unlimited data, the functionality of WebOS would be severely crippled. I can't even imagine trying to watch my data usage carefully, when so many of the Applications available using data.

    I think it would hurt the image of WebOS if people were trying to use it without - or with limited - data. It's a WEB based operating system... it needs data.
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  4. #4  
    Bought this brand new race horse the other day, and the damn thing doesn't have any legs.


    That's exactly what the Pre/Pixi would be like without data.
  5. Helidos's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spader View Post
    Without unlimited data, the functionality of WebOS would be severely crippled. I can't even imagine trying to watch my data usage carefully, when so many of the Applications available using data.

    I think it would hurt the image of WebOS if people were trying to use it without - or with limited - data. It's a WEB based operating system... it needs data.
    I agree.. there are feature phones that do media and the likes better than webos in form factor and usability for their specific purpose.. Imagine if the pre was sold without a data plan? the amount of I got charged $400 because I downloaded 2 apps from the app catalog posts would be all over these boards...

    Would be a bad move on both the carrier and palm...
  6. #6  
    I have always felt what has made V so successful is the "buy one get one" promotion they always do. gets two people instead of one, almost every time ill bet. palm should have sprint do the same thing to promote their sales. to me it make since. everyone likes that kind of offer. heck my wife love buy one get one half off on shoes and such.
    Pre be with you.

    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. -- Winston Churchill

    Happiness is not achieved by the conscious pursuit of happiness; it is generally the by-product of other activities. -- Aldous Huxley
  7. #7  
    webOS without data would be a disaster. Pandora, web browsing, e-mail, app store, navigation...all need a data plan to work.

    It would be like trying to watch a movie with a toque pulled over your eyes.
  8. dex4's Avatar
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    #8  
    Some functions would be crippled, but the platform itself would not.

    The pre/pixi are both great phones and sales would sky rocket if you didn't need a data package. There are a lot of people who want a nice phone but don't use the internet, or want to pay extra for data package, or can't even afford the extra cost.

    With a company starting to struggle and only offering 2 phones, this would make them very competitive.

    It is helping that they are releasing their phones to other carriers.
  9. #9  
    Wouldnt you need data access to activate the phone?
  10. #10  
    does an iphone seem like a good choice w/o a data plan? (iTouch)
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  11. #11  
    Sprint is Palms customer, not the other way around. Sprint wants to sell voice and Data services. Sprint is not going to ignore it's growth strategy so Palm can move handsets.
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  12. dex4's Avatar
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    #12  
    I think you are only going to mainly see a one sided answer on this forum, as everyone here uses everything the phones has to offer.
  13. #13  
    The phone needs data to even use the phone , Sign in profile.
    Without out data alot of ppl may buy the phone and then see a huge data usage bill.
    Huge backlash in that plan.
  14.    #14  
    so I guess the consensus seems to be that some type of data plan is needed. But the various carriers have cheaper data plans for feature phones which could be used. Of course Sprint/VZ won't change their smartphone data requirement so that Palm can move more phones.

    That's bad news for Palm since the smartphone segment, while growing a lot, is still a narrow piece of the pie. It's also bad news since Palm does not have other non-phone levers (Zune, ipod Touch, etc) to give people an experience with WebOS without signing up for a long-term contract.
  15. #15  
    [rant on]

    OK, I'm going to chime in because many of the comments here (along with on the web) really bother me. NO, you DO NOT need a data plan to have a functional Pre. Sure, the phone is much more available online when you have a data plan, but IT IS NOT REQUIRED. I have wifi in every location where I bring my phone and I can do anything I need online via WIFI - in fact today I pretty much use WIFI for everything and hardly even go on 3G. That's why the phone comes with it. All my kids want a Pre but I cannot get it for them because it requires a data plan, so they're forced to staying with their centros and other devices that today don't require it. Having a data plan and voice plan for my entire family would qualify an equivalent of 2 car payments per month. For the functionality that my family needs, data is not needed at all. They can download whatever apps they need while on wifi, like book readers, music players (pandora is NOT the only music player) that utilize the built-in storage (16GB????), the calendar app, the task manager, etc and use these apps while offline. I used all my previous Treo products WITHOUT a data plan perfectly fine as do my kids today. My work pays for my service, which is why I have a Pre, but I can tell you if they didn't reimburse me, I would not have a Pre.

    I get really irritated when people start posting that this phone absolutely needs a data plan. NO, it does not. There are many other uses for this phone that people can use without the plan.

    If you want to chime in and say how useful the phone is because of the data plan - great, but don't claim it's necessary, unless you work for the phone company or want to put more money in the phone companies pockets. They are forcing data plans on every purchase of phones these days and it's making me sick that no one is speaking up. In fact, I still can't figure out how phone companies today are getting away with this since it's actually an illegal process. Taken from another commenter from BGR a while back, here is the synopsis:

    ...refusing to allow smartphone users to subscribe to voice services without an accompanying unlimited data plan constitutes TYING (see antitrust laws). Tying is when the consumer is obligated to purchase an unwanted product or service in order to receive a wanted product or service. If all the major US wireless carriers institute and enforce tying, no one will be able to “vote with their wallet” anymore.
    Sorry, but I get really irate when people tell me how I should use this phone. Everyone has different needs and if we didn't have a required data plan, I can tell you that more of these phones would sell. Unfortunately, and as it was posted above also, the phone companies are responsible for tying data with voice, not Palm, so we'll never see this happen, unless more people complain to the FCC and FTC.

    [/rant off]
  16. #16  
    as a followup, you could even argue why the phone companies are tying voice to data, since these phones are capable of doing voip with the appropriate sofware, but phone companies block that also.....

    I say get rid of voice altogether and have data for a reasonable rate....
  17. djmcgee's Avatar
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    #17  
    sf_basilix is right. Data is not required other than Sprint and Verizon require it. Without the Sprint and Verizon apps, wifi will work for almost anything.

    However, Palm doesn't make this decision, the carrier does so there is no point in discussing it.
  18. #18  
    I think the iPad will foster some changes in the future with its noncontract enable the data plan when you want plan.

    But still, webOS is too data intensive to get around it. For that reason, Palm shouldn't be targeting the low end with a Pixi when a premium data plan is required. Doesn't mix that well.
  19. #19  
    The Pre without data is like a car with no engine...But seriously I also question why someone would then buy a data intensive phone, like the Pre, when their are better choices for people who do not want data.... Either way the phone carriers should be shot in the knees, dragged through broken glass and roasted over fire for charging what they do for data plans... The profit they make is amazing....
  20. mmarcus's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    [rant on]
    Sorry, but I get really irate when people tell me how I should use this phone. Everyone has different needs and if we didn't have a required data plan, I can tell you that more of these phones would sell. Unfortunately, and as it was posted above also, the phone companies are responsible for tying data with voice, not Palm, so we'll never see this happen, unless more people complain to the FCC and FTC.

    [/rant off]
    I think it's less a question of user needs...or a carrier telling you what to do with your phone...and more a question of how smartphones are subsidized by carriers. Yesterday's article in Engadget hits this point directly. Carriers are forcing you to buy a data plan because the increased monthly revenue is the only way they can recoup the expense of heavily subsidizing smartphones. Basically, the argument is that carriers are still trying new ways to keep smartphones as affordable as feature phones or dumbphones at the point of purchase, and the only way they've figured out how to do that so far is by requiring data plans.

    Would it be better for you if you didn't have to buy data plans for your family but you had to spend $500/phone upfront? (I don't mean this sarcastically, I meant it as a serious question).

    Now, of course, there is the question of the inflation of phone prices. Last time I checked a Pre costs ~$170 to manufacture and costs Sprint ~$300 and change. If they inflate that cost and then attempt to recoup the inflated cost...well...that's problematic if they're telling the FCC that rate/data plans are their primary revenue source. Especially with the presence of ETF's.

    Link to Engadget article:
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/e...zr-way-of-thi/
    Last edited by mmarcus; 02/24/2010 at 11:12 AM. Reason: added link
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