View Poll Results: Do you care more about games, or full WebOS GPU acceleration?

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  • UI acceleration

    371 93.22%
  • Games

    27 6.78%
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  1.    #1  
    Ok all, although I understand and respect the need for games on the Pre (market share, sales and all that), I find it infuriating that we're using the same hardware as the iPhone and their UI is actually sexy to watch (well, speed-wise anyway... not in any other way )

    Palm -- UI acceleration should be on the top of your list, especially if we're going down the Flash 10 path! We have a stable enough OS now... bring on the major finishing touch.

    Please vote!
  2. Shaikh's Avatar
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    #2  
    Hey, when did Australia get the pre? And Congrats! Lol.

    And I agree, with you! Games can come later right now more people want phones that are sexy instead of awesome-at-games.
  3. kanzlr's Avatar
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    #3  
    I wonder why everybody on the fora thinks that this is why the gui lags.
    I bet it's not. I am pretty sure palm uses the chipsets drivers to talk to the GPU. The other alternative would to write to the framebuffer directly, and from a development perspective, that doesn't make much sense. It seems that using webviews and thread priorities/lack of optimizations causes this.

    They should optimize their runtime for mojo code. Doubt gui acceleration in terms of gpu utilization has anything to do with it. If it had, it would be slow, but not laggy.
  4. #4  
    I am sorry, I can't vote, coz I want both!
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by kanzlr View Post
    I wonder why everybody on the fora thinks that this is why the gui lags.
    I bet it's not. I am pretty sure palm uses the chipsets drivers to talk to the GPU.
    I'll take that bet.

    I'm almost 100% sure they don't use the GPU. There is both lag, and overall, non-accelerated slowness.

    It is identical to watching two identical machines, one without DirectX enabled... still seems zippy enough, but not hardware zippy.

    At least I hope you're wrong!
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by MannyZ28 View Post
    I am sorry, I can't vote, coz I want both!
    lol... vote for the one more important to you.
  7. #7  
    When i get in gaming mode, i reach for my Xbox controller..
    How many times have you seen the Dr.?..lol
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by maddball View Post
    When i get in gaming mode, i reach for my Xbox controller..
    Well said, couldn't agree more.
  9. #9  
    Poor Palm's Pressed with Pressure to Perfect the PDK first Prior to Programming for UI Performance for Pre and Pixi.
  10. bdog421's Avatar
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    #10  
    I thought 1.4 was the beginning of the gpu being emplemented into the ui and browser? I won't vote on this any how cause it's too late....games are here to stay!
  11. mcericx's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by bdog421 View Post
    I thought 1.4 was the beginning of the gpu being emplemented into the ui and browser? I won't vote on this any how cause it's too late....games are here to stay!
    i hope they implemented the first steps for accelerating the UI through the GPU in the 1.4 update.

    i doubt it though
  12. cjay4046's Avatar
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    #12  
    Sad to say it is games before programming right now. Apps are the bread and butter. I checked out video on Samsungs Bada OS and I like the features its coming out of the gate with. Even though Bada cant do a lot of things as efficiant and simple as Web OS, it has a ton of features that we want. I hope after the PDK launch Palm really starts to focus on the UI. Palm may have rushed this phone out faster than they wanted to, but they're doin a good job getting the OS where it needs to be.
  13. UF15's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by kanzlr View Post
    I wonder why everybody on the fora thinks that this is why the gui lags.
    I bet it's not. I am pretty sure palm uses the chipsets drivers to talk to the GPU. The other alternative would to write to the framebuffer directly, and from a development perspective, that doesn't make much sense. It seems that using webviews and thread priorities/lack of optimizations causes this.

    They should optimize their runtime for mojo code. Doubt gui acceleration in terms of gpu utilization has anything to do with it. If it had, it would be slow, but not laggy.
    Look at how iPhone uses its GPU. It doesn't just have its chipset drivers talk to the GPU.

    For instance, look at why Safari is so smooth on iPhone. It is because webpages are rendered as OpenGL textures. Then, because OpenGL is so optimized and powerful, it can easily move those textures at 30fps or better. It isn't just having the GPU do the CPU's work, it is changing how the work is done.

    Palm needs to use OpenGL on the GPU to do the same things. They need to map things like the contact list to an OpenGL texture. Unfortunately, there is no way to do that right now. So they are just saying, "F it, we'll just wait for better CPUs to mask this."

    Now, that doesn't mean the rest of WebOS isn't woefully unoptimized and poorly written. It is. JavaScript and poor optimization is what is keeping WebOS from being fast. Not using the GPU properly is what is keeping it from being smooth.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Look at how iPhone uses its GPU. It doesn't just have its chipset drivers talk to the GPU.

    For instance, look at why Safari is so smooth on iPhone. It is because webpages are rendered as OpenGL textures. Then, because OpenGL is so optimized and powerful, it can easily move those textures at 30fps or better. It isn't just having the GPU do the CPU's work, it is changing how the work is done.

    Palm needs to use OpenGL on the GPU to do the same things. They need to map things like the contact list to an OpenGL texture. Unfortunately, there is no way to do that right now. So they are just saying, "F it, we'll just wait for better CPUs to mask this."

    Now, that doesn't mean the rest of WebOS isn't woefully unoptimized and poorly written. It is. JavaScript and poor optimization is what is keeping WebOS from being fast. Not using the GPU properly is what is keeping it from being smooth.
    +1

    Was just going to post this, iPhone's UI is due to the fact the it is rendered into a texture which the GPU handles well. But i couldnt have said it better than UF15. I'm pretty sure Palm will address this, but it will require a major code overhaul of how the UI handles things, integrating CSS Transformations (they have stated this openly) and actually leveraging hardware instead of Javascript, which lets face it, will not do a better job no matter the CPU clock speed.

    Almost all other Aspects of the webOS UI beats the iPhones hands down (Though i wish there was a more unified icon style), but the one major area which is 'smoothness' and lag is severely letting it down.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    Look at how iPhone uses its GPU. It doesn't just have its chipset drivers talk to the GPU.

    For instance, look at why Safari is so smooth on iPhone. It is because webpages are rendered as OpenGL textures. Then, because OpenGL is so optimized and powerful, it can easily move those textures at 30fps or better. It isn't just having the GPU do the CPU's work, it is changing how the work is done.

    Palm needs to use OpenGL on the GPU to do the same things. They need to map things like the contact list to an OpenGL texture. Unfortunately, there is no way to do that right now. So they are just saying, "F it, we'll just wait for better CPUs to mask this."

    Now, that doesn't mean the rest of WebOS isn't woefully unoptimized and poorly written. It is. JavaScript and poor optimization is what is keeping WebOS from being fast. Not using the GPU properly is what is keeping it from being smooth.

    soooooo.....this wont be fixed for a while?
    Motorola i710 > Motorola i760 > Samsung M520 > Palm Pre
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    soooooo.....this wont be fixed for a while?
    Only Palm can comment as to where this is on their roadmap.

    However its safe to say it'll be out by webOS 2.0. Whether it's earlier than that, webOS 1.5, 1.6 maybe, is anyone's guess and pure speculation.
  17. #17  
    I voted for games, since that is the major draw for most developers (which will also bring more consumers to help further the platform). But I also want the CPU to be clocked (by Palm) to 600mhz AND for them to enable the GPU for the UI.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by BMIC50 View Post
    But I also want the CPU to be clocked (by Palm) to 600mhz
    That, most certainly, will never happen -.-
  19. #19  
    javascript is the core of the problem, IMHO. For example, if you look at even a simple app like the pong clock, CPU is at 72 friggin' percent!

    There's a lot of overhead in doing things the 'web way', and that' probably the core of the problem.
  20. UF15's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by cnote1287 View Post
    soooooo.....this wont be fixed for a while?
    If ever.

    I think Palm's plan is to throw more robust hardware at the issue. They will get a Cortex-A9 or 1.5Ghz Snapdragon CPU to simply maul through the issue. That is why I said they are going to attempt to mask inefficient code with brawn.

    Now, that is just my thinking, but I base it on what others are doing. Android has the same issue (although, not as poorly coded) and they are just fixing it with faster hardware. It is the easiest and cheapest way to do it. All they have to do is wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    However its safe to say it'll be out by webOS 2.0. Whether it's earlier than that, webOS 1.5, 1.6 maybe, is anyone's guess and pure speculation.
    How is it "safe to say"? Based on what? Isn't that comment just pure speculation? What comments has Palm made that indicate this? All they have ever said were some BS statements about CSS transforms, as though they were enough to solve all of this, which they later actually retracted.

    Again, not using the GPU is preventing the GUI from being smooth, but using JavaScript and other poor code is preventing the GUI from being fast. Until they ditch both approaches, and build everything natively, WebOS is going to be a slug. And from my perspective, Palm just doesn't give a damn, just like the old Palm.
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