View Poll Results: Do you care more about games, or full WebOS GPU acceleration?

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  • UI acceleration

    371 93.22%
  • Games

    27 6.78%
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  1. miata's Avatar
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    #41  
    There are going to be a lot of WebOS early adopters up in arms if the lag problem is not fixed on existing hardware.
  2. krische's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by miata View Post
    There are going to be a lot of WebOS early adopters up in arms if the lag problem is not fixed on existing hardware.
    eh I don't think so. All of the early adopters are now premier customers on Sprint. That means they all can get hardware upgrades after a year of having the Pre. They would likely just buy the newer, faster hardware palm comes out with. I mean they are early adopters after all.
  3. miata's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by krische View Post
    eh I don't think so. All of the early adopters are now premier customers on Sprint. That means they all can get hardware upgrades after a year of having the Pre. They would likely just buy the newer, faster hardware palm comes out with. I mean they are early adopters after all.
    You might be right -- scary thought.
  4. krische's Avatar
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    #44  
    Mobile hardware just advances so fast that it's not really worth the effort for Palm to invest too much in optimizing software. I mean look at the pre, the processor in it is only 1 year old. Yet, TI is already showing the next generation processor to be released to manufacturers in a few months. It's nearly 4 times as fast (dual core 1GHz compared to single core 500MHz in pre) and uses less power.
  5. #45  
    I think Palm has already pretty much stated that they're going to utilize the GPU via WebGL, CSS Transforms, and the like.

    Here's a quick quote:

    The PDK offers access to some capabilities like accelerated OpenGL-powered 3D graphics that are not currently exposed to applications built entirely with web technologies.

    However, we are hard at work delivering similar capabilities to all webOS applications. While we are not yet ready to announce our specific SDK plans in this area, we are closely tracking the rapid evolution of browser capabilities based on emerging standards, such as WebGL, CSS Transforms, and O3D for 3D graphics, and we are enormously excited about their potential to revolutionize the web.

    You can expect us to aggressively implement the best of these and other similar forward-looking web standards, proposed web standards, and other extensions designed to expose native device capabilities to webOS applications.
    Could they be any more clear about their intentions?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  6. #46  
    think that about sums it up. next...
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    think that about sums it up. next...
    Yep. Nothing to see here folks.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  8. #48  
    they really need to get it done asap. latency is the most important and first thing people complain about when it comes to webOS..

    gpu accelerated UI should be priority number 1
  9. #49  
    I made a new thread about this, but look at what epocrates has for speed. It has no graphical enrichment and it is incredibly fast. The OMAP3 cannot handle doing all the processing and graphical enrichment by itself. The GPU really needs to be incorporated. Leaving the PDK as is for now. Spend a month or 2 getting the GPU and running in the general OS, sell more phones.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

    Need help with your webOS device? PM me for help!
  10. UF15's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Palm
    You can expect us to aggressively implement the best of these and other similar forward-looking web standards, proposed web standards, and other extensions designed to expose native device capabilities to webOS applications.
    "Aggressively implement," that is laughable. There has hardly been anything aggressive about new technologies being implemented into WebOS since it was first unveiled 13 months ago and released almost 9 months ago. These incremental updates have brought nothing innovative to the table save for adding a few missing features in a half-baked way. We are 9 months out, and a beautifully thought out OS is still pathetically slow and choppy. Aggressive?

    CSS transforms aren't going to fix scrolling, WebGL isn't even going to be near ready until late summer at the earliest. If their idea of "aggressive" is to simply wait until these things are developed by others, they aren't going to be around long enough to implement them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    Leaving the PDK as is for now. Spend a month or 2 getting the GPU and running in the general OS, sell more phones.
    Palm had their chance to blow people away and they squandered it. They needed that smooth UI from day 1. Now if they implement it, how the hell do you market it? "We're no longer trying to sell you a slow, choppy phone!" "New Feature! GUI fluidity!" "Now get what you thought you were getting in June of 2009!" People won't notice, or won't notice fast enough, and it won't make a difference. Instead, they are using their resources on things that they can market. You can't market fixing your OS, not this late, it isn't going to help sell more phones. They need things to persuade normal consumers and stay relevant, the last thing on their mind is fixing current issues. They can market games, so that is what they are working on. They will just wait for beefier CPUs to fix their bad code.
  11. miata's Avatar
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    #51  
    Interesting poll results. 93% of folks voted for UI acceleration
  12. #52  
    why cant we have both?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    "Aggressively implement," that is laughable. There has hardly been anything aggressive about new technologies being implemented into WebOS since it was first unveiled 13 months ago and released almost 9 months ago. These incremental updates have brought nothing innovative to the table save for adding a few missing features in a half-baked way. We are 9 months out, and a beautifully thought out OS is still pathetically slow and choppy. Aggressive?

    CSS transforms aren't going to fix scrolling, WebGL isn't even going to be near ready until late summer at the earliest. If their idea of "aggressive" is to simply wait until these things are developed by others, they aren't going to be around long enough to implement them.



    Palm had their chance to blow people away and they squandered it. They needed that smooth UI from day 1. Now if they implement it, how the hell do you market it? "We're no longer trying to sell you a slow, choppy phone!" "New Feature! GUI fluidity!" "Now get what you thought you were getting in June of 2009!" People won't notice, or won't notice fast enough, and it won't make a difference. Instead, they are using their resources on things that they can market. You can't market fixing your OS, not this late, it isn't going to help sell more phones. They need things to persuade normal consumers and stay relevant, the last thing on their mind is fixing current issues. They can market games, so that is what they are working on. They will just wait for beefier CPUs to fix their bad code.
    I agree they squandered a golden opportunity...now they have nothing really to gain by optimizing it..and we all suffer for it
  14. 0xel's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by miata View Post
    Interesting poll results. 93% of folks voted for UI acceleration
    Of course they did - we already DID GET GAMES. I am more interested waht the other 7 % were thinking about when they pressed that button
  15. miata's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by 0xel View Post
    Of course they did - we already DID GET GAMES. I am more interested waht the other 7 % were thinking about when they pressed that button
    Maybe they have a Pixi or Pixi Plus and want 3D games more than UI acceleration.
  16. #56  
    Neither the Pixi+ nor the Pre+ perform better than their regular counterparts, the Pre+ only has the option of holding more apps open which is useless. I'm upgrading to the HTC Supersonic as soon as it comes out unless Palm releases new hardware before then which is highly unlikely. I've learned my lesson though thanks to Palm, and that's to never be an early adopter.

    On another note, I can't wait until WebOS 2.0 hits on the C40 hardware most probably where it's finally going to be smooth scrolling no lag and overall an actual marketable OS, that's when I'll jump back on the Palm ship. That is if they aren't bought over or bankrupt by then.

    I'm with you guys only because you're the underdog now. I hope Palm reads these forums and is hard at work on the plethora of issues that plague WebOS. It's gotta mean something when most of the PreCentral forums are talking about mostly bad things about your OS.
  17. kanzlr's Avatar
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    #57  
    I wonder if any of you guys used android phones for a prolonged period of time.
    they have just as many niggles, if not more. I come from win mo -> Android -> pre, and I would never go back to Android as long as there are webOS devices.

    things that bothered me (about my Milestone):
    the damn lockscreen is also there when the keyboard is extended
    the browser is a bit slower and it often doesn't accept link clicks when you zoomed out
    the phone app is super basic. admittedly, HTC devices are much better in this regard
    I don't like the desktop metapher. you have three desktops, the apps, a launcher tray, the drag down shade (that is actually nice, but not as nice as palms notifications)

    admittedly, HTC has improved the look and usability of Android, no questions about that. But the system is clumsy in a lot of areas. the **** ugly and basic calendar is even worse (by a far margin) than Palms. There isn't even a native todo app, nor notes app (there are various in the market, of course, but thats also true for palm).

    Androids virtual keyboard is dreadful. HTCs is much better, but I still prefer hardware keyboards, and the Droid/Milestone ones, while being bigger, is a lot slower for me to type on.

    and speed wise: the Pre is somewhere in between the Milestone with 2.0 (slow) and 2.0.1 (fast).

    I would say it is fine. not superfast, but fine for day to day use.

    have fun with Android, but im my eyes it is still a pretty mediocre platform that has a long way to go. webOS is a lot more polished, believe it or not.
  18. miata's Avatar
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    #58  
    The more interesting comparison and the one I think scares Apple is the one between WebOS and iPhone OS.

    In my opinion, Web OS has a much better use model and UI concept - the cards, notification, synergy, etc. I am a pretty hard core Mac user and I have to say that WebOS is to iPhone OS what MacOS was to DOS back in the day. However, in one area the iPhone runs circles around the Pre when it comes to UI responsiveness. I don't have that much experience with Android. I played with a Droid on intro day and wrote it off as one big train wreck of a UI.

    I am a hopeless early adopter when it comes to things like phones. And I am used to using bleeding edge technologies with rough edges. Anybody remember some of the first gen Blu-ray and HD DVD players? Well, I feel like Pre is trying to break out of the "early adopter" mode. Heck they are targeting moms! I am also getting tired of being an early adopter after 6 months with WebOS. I bought the phone based on potential and with the expectation that early release lag would be eliminated via updates. I mean Palm was planning on making this a mainstream kind of product -- right?. We are not even close today in terms of UI responsiveness. As much as I love the WebOS user interaction model the lag is just unacceptable to the point that I cannot recommend a WebOS phone to most of my friends or coworkers.

    If Palm would just fix the lag problem I would be recommending a WebOS phone to just about everybody. OK. The "too many applications open" bug would also need to be fixed, but you get the point
  19. kanzlr's Avatar
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    #59  
    miata, the card problem is fixed with the Pre Plus.
    altough i never experience it with my GSM Pre if I don't want to start a PDK game.
    a luna restart fixes it.

    the lag...come on. it is way less than a lot of LG and Samsung touchscreen phones, and those ARE successful.
  20. miata's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by kanzlr View Post
    miata, the card problem is fixed with the Pre Plus.
    altough i never experience it with my GSM Pre if I don't want to start a PDK game.
    a luna restart fixes it.

    the lag...come on. it is way less than a lot of LG and Samsung touchscreen phones, and those ARE successful.
    I don't have experience with the LG or Samsung phones. Most of the people I work with have either Blackberry or iPhones. Quite a few of the people, including myself, also have earlier Palm Treo phones. These phones are all much more responsive than WebOS phones and meet the needs of impatient business users.

    I'm always surprised when people say that WebOS is not slow. Clearly, it depends on your point of reference -- meaning what phone you came from and what you comparing it to.
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