View Poll Results: Do you care more about games, or full WebOS GPU acceleration?

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  • UI acceleration

    371 93.22%
  • Games

    27 6.78%
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  1. #21  
    +1 I can't vote cause I'm on a pre but I'll upvote.
  2. kanzlr's Avatar
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    #22  
    Btw. I have a Motorola Milestone (GSM Droid) also, and it was way less smooth till the recent 2.0.1 update. It is not really faster in opening stuff also, and the browser got horribly slow with 2.0.1, it was better with 2.0.

    My girlfriends HTC G1 shipped with Android 1.1, and it was slow and not smooth at all.
    with the current Cyanogene 1.6 ROM, it is smooth, but not much faster, but smoother than my Milestone.

    The Palm Pre is somewhere in between, about as fast as the Milestone for most tasks, and smoother than the Milestone with 2.0, bit less smooth than with 2.0.1, but the browser is definitely smother and more usable than the current Milestone 2.0.1 browser (bar the excellent Motorola screen, of course).
  3.    #23  
    Interesting poll results already.

    Speaks for itself.

    And the comments re speed versus smooth are spot on. This is what I'm talking about... I want smooth (and hence faster) UI... I actually am not all that bothered with the overall speed of WebOS at the moment.

    For the device to REALLY shake the tree, it needs to be smooth... rolling down a page shouldn't "lag" or seem to pause and stutter.
  4. #24  
    Completely agree with the poll. Although if it was taken about 2 months ago, we'd probably see a bit more balance. You all are getting immune to the games I can see...
  5. #25  
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the GPU has problems running HTML, CSS, and Javascript. I'm sure that they can and will do some low level speed improvements but what would really have helped is to hand the graphics to the GPU.
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  6. krische's Avatar
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    #26  
    Yeah the lack of smoothness is my major grief with the Pre. I can't stand scrolling through a list or pages in the launcher, and it redraws at like 5 frames per second.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by dcoaster View Post
    Completely agree with the poll. Although if it was taken about 2 months ago, we'd probably see a bit more balance. You all are getting immune to the games I can see...
    I dunno, I can't recall any threads with people pining for games. I suppose that could fall under a want for apps in general, but never a "Where are the 3D games!?!?" post.

    Then again, I don't have any desire to play games on my Pre so it's possible I just glanced over any threads like that.
  8. #28  
    dont care about games, i would rather have the phone run that much better.
  9. #29  
    Seriously? how is this even a thread.. Games are made by EA, and game loft NOT by palm. Palm provided them with the SDK to make these games but thats it. I'm sure palm has a few dedicated individuals working on speeding up the UI. So stop complaining already and to be blunt my UI is fast and I'm not using any speed patches. Not sure what you are really complaining about here.

    -Toaster
  10. miata's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by toasterthegamer View Post
    Seriously? how is this even a thread.. Games are made by EA, and game loft NOT by palm. Palm provided them with the SDK to make these games but thats it. I'm sure palm has a few dedicated individuals working on speeding up the UI. So stop complaining already and to be blunt my UI is fast and I'm not using any speed patches. Not sure what you are really complaining about here.

    -Toaster
    Palm must have invested a bunch to get that hot game SDK out. They will now have to maintain 3D APIs, tune APIs and eventually port them to the Pixi. All that work is taking resources away from basic interface acceleration.

    It is a matter of priorities. A lot of us bought into assuming the the lag was temporary. Now, more than half a year later WebOS is still too slow for me to recommend this phone to any but my most "early technology tolerant" hard core friends.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the GPU has problems running HTML, CSS, and Javascript. I'm sure that they can and will do some low level speed improvements but what would really have helped is to hand the graphics to the GPU.
    No. The GPU doesn't do any of this.

    All it does is draw.

    It's merely sent info on what to draw (sometimes pixel by pixel, in simple terms)... WebOS currently doesn't do this in an accelerated fashion.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by miata View Post
    Palm must have invested a bunch to get that hot game SDK out. They will now have to maintain 3D APIs, tune APIs and eventually port them to the Pixi. All that work is taking resources away from basic interface acceleration.

    It is a matter of priorities. A lot of us bought into assuming the the lag was temporary. Now, more than half a year later WebOS is still too slow for me to recommend this phone to any but my most "early technology tolerant" hard core friends.
    Amen, and well said.

    The OP of that was flat out wrong.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by miata View Post
    Palm must have invested a bunch to get that hot game SDK out. They will now have to maintain 3D APIs, tune APIs and eventually port them to the Pixi. All that work is taking resources away from basic interface acceleration.

    It is a matter of priorities. A lot of us bought into assuming the the lag was temporary. Now, more than half a year later WebOS is still too slow for me to recommend this phone to any but my most "early technology tolerant" hard core friends.
    Your assuming that palm isn't working on this at all number one. Number 2: PDK helps with eventually speeding up the UI. How? It helps palm understand how their GPU works and how they can use it for their UI and finally I don't think there is much left to be done with PDK. Maybe a little bit of cleaning up, but I bet the core team isn't really working too hard on it right now as the slated release time is in what may? So they have plenty of time to clean it up and package it for the rest of the dev's.

    -Toaster
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by UF15 View Post
    How is it "safe to say"? Based on what? Isn't that comment just pure speculation? What comments has Palm made that indicate this? All they have ever said were some BS statements about CSS transforms, as though they were enough to solve all of this, which they later actually retracted.

    Again, not using the GPU is preventing the GUI from being smooth, but using JavaScript and other poor code is preventing the GUI from being fast. Until they ditch both approaches, and build everything natively, WebOS is going to be a slug. And from my perspective, Palm just doesn't give a damn, just like the old Palm.
    Why wouldn't they?

    It makes logical sense, A way of integrating OpenGL into the UI's Code would enable 'smooth' scrolling, whereas the updates in CPU clock speeds over hardware generations addresses the 'Fastness' issue.

    And besides, it's always a comment i get when comparing the webOS to iPhone OS, the iPhone OS transitions are simply butter smooth, makes webOS seem choppy and laggy in comparison. If palm wants any chance of making their new OS a success, they have to pull out all the stops.

    The transition to a 2.0 of an Operating system warrants certain 'big' features to be included before it can be called a 2.0 update, GPU accelerated UI, is one of the most logical ones, as web technologies rapidly improve, don't be surprised to see these integrated.

    Don't forget, the companies under the leader ship of Jon Rubinstein now, they've brought out a brand spanking new Os whilst doing a U Turn from bankruptcy, give them time, they will deliver. If not, well, more fool them.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    Why wouldn't they?

    It makes logical sense, A way of integrating OpenGL into the UI's Code would enable 'smooth' scrolling, whereas the updates in CPU clock speeds over hardware generations addresses the 'Fastness' issue.

    And besides, it's always a comment i get when comparing the webOS to iPhone OS, the iPhone OS transitions are simply butter smooth, makes webOS seem choppy and laggy in comparison. If palm wants any chance of making their new OS a success, they have to pull out all the stops.

    The transition to a 2.0 of an Operating system warrants certain 'big' features to be included before it can be called a 2.0 update, GPU accelerated UI, is one of the most logical ones, as web technologies rapidly improve, don't be surprised to see these integrated.

    Don't forget, the companies under the leader ship of Jon Rubinstein now, they've brought out a brand spanking new Os whilst doing a U Turn from bankruptcy, give them time, they will deliver. If not, well, more fool them.
    Butter smooth is how i would describe the IPhone Os as well, the Pre just doesn't come close...I like the experience of the Pre Better but it's frustrating to use becuase its just so damn choppy and laggy
  16. #36  
    I did not vote because the UI works fine for me and I am not into gaming.
    Last edited by netwrkr9; 02/23/2010 at 10:16 AM. Reason: add
  17. #37  
    games and UI acceleration are intertwined.. the more complicated the game (3D) the more strain on the OS ... hence the need for UI optimization, so dont get your panties in a bunch ... i say push for games and UI acceleration WILL automatically be improved
  18. UF15's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    Why wouldn't they?

    It makes logical sense, A way of integrating OpenGL into the UI's Code would enable 'smooth' scrolling, whereas the updates in CPU clock speeds over hardware generations addresses the 'Fastness' issue.

    And besides, it's always a comment i get when comparing the webOS to iPhone OS, the iPhone OS transitions are simply butter smooth, makes webOS seem choppy and laggy in comparison. If palm wants any chance of making their new OS a success, they have to pull out all the stops.

    The transition to a 2.0 of an Operating system warrants certain 'big' features to be included before it can be called a 2.0 update, GPU accelerated UI, is one of the most logical ones, as web technologies rapidly improve, don't be surprised to see these integrated.

    Don't forget, the companies under the leader ship of Jon Rubinstein now, they've brought out a brand spanking new Os whilst doing a U Turn from bankruptcy, give them time, they will deliver. If not, well, more fool them.
    Just because it seems "logical" to you or me doesn't make it a priority to Palm. Truth be told, most people won't notice it. Common folks aren't paying that close of attention and Palm knows that. That is why their priority is social network integration, apps and games.

    So why wouldn't they? Because they don't have the resources. Their current guys aren't smart enough to figure it out fast enough. If they wanted to figure out, they would have to devote more time to it, maybe hire a lot more people to deal with it and they just don't have the money for it. So they have allocated their best talent to things they deem most necessary in the short-term.

    And if they last long enough, they will get CPUs that will be powerful enough to push a decent framerate on these animations, which will make things faster and smoother. And that time isn't too far off. It might only be 6 months. So instead of using that time to integrate the GPU properly, they can use that time to work on stuff that is far more marketable. So in that manner, it isn't that logical for them. They have limited resources, and they need to use them in a way that will yield selling the most devices.

    Your "features" that warrant a 2.0 OS seem to be a bit arbitrary, so I am not going to address that. And I also don't accept your premise that we need to trust them because Rubinstein is still in charge. From my perspective, they are still an awful lot like the old Palm, especially when it comes to the slow progress they have made post launch of WebOS.

    Anyways, I will reiterate that iPhone-like GPU acceleration is not coming to the WebOS GPU.
  19. krische's Avatar
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    #39  
    Yeah, after seeing some of the demos of Texas Instrument's OMAP4 (Pre uses OMAP3), I don't think Palm's next phone (assuming it'll use the OMAP4, which is likely) will have any trouble.

    As for OMAP4, that will offer a significant performance jump over the previous-gen platform, thanks to dual 1GHz ARM A9 cores. It’ll also be a more power frugal chipset; Texas Instruments reckon that, while a roughly 1,000 mAh battery would be good for 30 to 50 hours of MP3 playback with an OMAP3, the OMAP4 will offer up to 145 hours. More impressive, however, is the video performance. The OMAP4 chipset can drive three displays simultaneously – two onboard and an external screen or pico-projector – each showing different content. Resolution support isn’t fully finalised, but the internal displays can be “significantly higher” than WVGA – handy if you’re making a tablet, not a smartphone – while the HDMI port can output Full HD 1080p 30fps.
    from: Texas Instruments OMAP4 hands-on - SlashGear

    I WANT a new Palm phone (tablet?) with that chip in it. Oh man that would be amazing.
  20. #40  
    I can't agree enough. iPhone OS is ugly but I love watching how fast it is and smooth. The scrolling impresses me every time.
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