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  1.    #1  
    After 7 months of the Pre, & reading all the coverage forum posts reviews ect.. I can't help but think the user community & the Media are somewhat if not mostly responsible for the Pre's lack of success.

    Most web based media get their info from user community, then they post reviews "unbiased" about The problems with the Pre build quality ect..

    Are the users hyper sensitive to minor issues that still only occur in maybe 3% of the Pre's shipped out?

    Are we doing the Pre justice or are we the User community actually contributing to the lack of success.

    Talking to Android users, Iphone users, most all phones have some problems The Droids are laggy and the UI is confusing.

    The iPhone lacks the multitasking, keyboard and full customization ability. yet those Smart phones are rated higher? Why?

    IMO The Pre is a superior device that has yet to expose its full potential.
    I was listening to BOL and I heard lots of hype about the droid only to hear in a later BOL netcast that the Droid is laggy & confusing, the iPhone is part of At&T's overpriced nanny network, and the Palm Pre.. well it is mentioned as an afterthought, as if the tech community such as Google does not recognize its strengths.

    I am rambling just my thoughts on how frustrating it is that the pre is not supported more widely in the tech community.

    Now excuse me while i go exchange my 5th pre because i think it wiggled and leaked light, but just to be sure it really is an "oreo effect" I should "see how much wiggle it has" by wiggling it more.

    If you look long and hard enough everything has flaws that is if one is out to find a flaw.
  2. #2  
    This is something I get confused about too. None of my friends have the Palm Pre and they constantly take the p*ss out of it for three reasons:

    1) They say it's a girls phone (it's too "pretty" and "curvy")
    2) They say it's too sluggish
    3) They hate the keyboard

    So, my gut feeling is that Palm need to either drastically improve the Pre's form factor, or introduce a third form factor. I know that Palm are committed to a physical keyboard, but the phones that are selling at the moment are the large screen, no keyboard, masculine design phones. Like the iPhone, HTC HD2, Nexus One (and to some extend the Droid though it does have the keyboard).

    Software as we all know will improve in speed as time goes on. I think it's really important that we get some new form factors. People have said to me "Well, I like the operating system but I hate the Pre".
  3. #3  
    I see what you're saying, and I completely understand. Everyone, and I mean everyone who gets a hands on with my Pre is immediately and irrevocably convinced it's the best phone they've used to date. I did notice today while reading all the Windows Phone 7 Series (That's a mouthful ain't it?) news on Engadget they often referred to iphone, Android, and WebOS when talking about the who Microsoft had to compete with. Blackberry, Symbian, and all the rest were just lumped together (Like I just did with all the rest) It's taking a while but people tend to forget that it's not just a new phone it's an entirely new OS. How fast do you really think it took Android to take off? The G1 was released in late 08 and here it is early 10 and Android is just starting to become a powerhouse. We havn't even gotten 9 full months out of WebOS yet and Palm has nowhere near the capital that Google does. By those standards I'd say it's doing just fine.
  4. azumak's Avatar
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    #4  
    I think you raise a lot of good, valid points. It's a combination of many things, I think one of them being Verizon's obsession with the Droid. I have seen one Palm Pre on display, with no special signage, at an official Verizon store, in a mall. This was 2 weeks after the Pre Plus launch... I haven't found them in any Wal-mart, Best Buy, Target, or other malls to date. I really hope they change their strategies with the Pre soon or it's not going to go well... Have to wait til it hits AT&T to see.

    I see many people's phones every day, dealing with hundreds of customers (I work in a mall in Central NY..) and I have seen one.. only one other Pre. Ever. I've never seen a non-demo Pixi. It's depressing. Verizon employees typically have a Droid clipped to their belt as well as on their lanyard. I've seen Sprint employees with iPhones... now that's puzzling. As far as Sprint goes... that's a whole 'nother thing...

    You're right, the Pre isn't getting the recognition it deserves. Everyone is always so impressed by what I can do with mine, but I don't think much of it after seeing the smartphone community more. Maybe I've also been influenced.. people that see my Pre that have little smartphone knowledge are always really impressed. >.> Maybe it really is the best phone out there!

    Sorry I ranted forever there. :o
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by SqyArc View Post
    1) They say it's a girls phone (it's too "pretty" and "curvy")
    2) They say it's too sluggish
    3) They hate the keyboard
    Most of the "girls phone" mentality comes from the Verizon Mom commercials. If they were saying that before then it's really just a personal opinion, one you probably won't change. My bet is they probably already had smart phones and didn't want to seem like there's was inferior. That's pretty much standard "Dude M.O." I loaded Avatar on my Pre, and on my iphone and they took pretty much the same amount of time to load, if there was a difference it was indistinguishable to me. The sluggishness complaint comes from the fact that GPU isn't being used for UI. Compare actual operation speeds and they're pretty close across the board for comparable hardware. Game play for a couple of the 3D games are actually smoother and less prone to lagginess than the same games on my 3gs which says something since they have the same chip inside.


    Oh yeah, the keyboard... For every person who says they don't like the keyboard I can find two who can't stand any form of virtual keyboard so it's po-tay-to/po-tah-to IMHO
    Last edited by xome1983; 02/16/2010 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Forgot to mention the Keyboard
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Addie_Goodvibes View Post
    After 7 months of the Pre, & reading all the coverage forum posts reviews ect.. I can't help but think the user community & the Media are somewhat if not mostly responsible for the Pre's lack of success.

    Most web based media get their info from user community, then they post reviews "unbiased" about The problems with the Pre build quality ect..

    Are the users hyper sensitive to minor issues that still only occur in maybe 3% of the Pre's shipped out?

    Are we doing the Pre justice or are we the User community actually contributing to the lack of success.

    Talking to Android users, Iphone users, most all phones have some problems The Droids are laggy and the UI is confusing.

    The iPhone lacks the multitasking, keyboard and full customization ability. yet those Smart phones are rated higher? Why?

    IMO The Pre is a superior device that has yet to expose its full potential.
    I was listening to BOL and I heard lots of hype about the droid only to hear in a later BOL netcast that the Droid is laggy & confusing, the iPhone is part of At&T's overpriced nanny network, and the Palm Pre.. well it is mentioned as an afterthought, as if the tech community such as Google does not recognize its strengths.

    I am rambling just my thoughts on how frustrating it is that the pre is not supported more widely in the tech community.

    Now excuse me while i go exchange my 5th pre because i think it wiggled and leaked light, but just to be sure it really is an "oreo effect" I should "see how much wiggle it has" by wiggling it more.

    If you look long and hard enough everything has flaws that is if one is out to find a flaw.
    I feel a bit disappointed by WebOS after 2 months of use. Classic emulation of Palm OS is sluggish. My memos will not be migrated to my Pre without a 3rd party app. The contacts lack category which allows password protection as found in Palm OS. Then, there is no dictionary tools, such as MobiReader, Zdic,Kdict, that allow creation of custom glossaries and dictionaries. No call recording app. WiFi and web browsing is a nice feature, though. My impression is that WebOS is still a beta OS that needs constant patching and updating.
  7. azumak's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by xome1983 View Post
    The G1 was released in late 08 and here it is early 10 and Android is just starting to become a powerhouse. We havn't even gotten 9 full months out of WebOS yet and Palm has nowhere near the capital that Google does. By those standards I'd say it's doing just fine.
    I never really thought of it like that! That makes a lot more sense now... Droid has been out for twice as long. And for that matter, iPhone has been out for 2.5 years, and got video after 2... after two hardware incarnations. We're getting it after 9 months. And let's not forget Precorder, which I definitely used to take some videos of my cat and played on my flatscreen a few months ago. :3

    Pre is doing quite well.. but I think we love it so much we think it deserves more! It'll take time guys... and besides... I think it's better to be with the underdog than be another iDrone. Double Zing~!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by appia View Post
    I feel a bit disappointed by WebOS after 2 months of use. Classic emulation of Palm OS is sluggish. My memos will not be migrated to my Pre without a 3rd party app. The contacts lack category which allows password protection as found in Palm OS. Then, there is no dictionary tools, such as MobiReader, Zdic,Kdict, that allow creation of custom glossaries and dictionaries. No call recording app. WiFi and web browsing is a nice feature, though. My impression is that WebOS is still a beta OS that needs constant patching and updating.
    So Android is completely mature and thus needs no further updates?... Tell that to the suckers stuck with Donut. Or Even WinMo 6.x, which is about to get usurped by 7 series and yet still has an unseen update on the way. OS's update non stop. Hell, I've updated Windows 7 on my PC a few times since I got it and that hasn't been out very long at all. The apps you listed are third party apps, that has little to do with Palm and a lot to do with the developers of said apps. If you want MobiReader contact MobiReader and try to light a fire under their butts because it really isn't Palms place to develop the OS and all the apps. Everyone cries about hardware now, but imagine if all of Palms resources were tied up making the "must have" apps that are typically made by other developers. We'd be in a world of hurt because the Pre would've fallen flat out of the gate. The PDK goes public soon and with that major iphone apps will come it's just a matter of patience or lack there of. WebOS isn't a beta OS, it's just not as mature as others that have been on the market for several years, that's pretty much common sense at this point in it's lifespan. As far as patching goes, I don't remember a single phone or PDA that had everything exactly perfect for me... And perfect for me probably isn't perfect for you. No one "needs" to patch, and patching doesn't "fix" anything because it didn't come from Palm broken. (Not that you said it did, just figured since I was on a rant I'd throw that in there for good measure.) It came without a feature that YOU consider important but others may not. I have no need for a video recorder, although it will be cool to play with, but others are crying foul because it couldn't do it out of the box. Funny how that works. I sent MMS messages on my RAZR and yet even the Jesus phone couldn't for a very long time. It's all a matter of perspective, something Palm Fan Boys, and haters alike could both use a little of IMHO.

    With all that said, some people just are not meant to be early adopters and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Getting a brand new phone with a brand new OS you have to expect growing pains along the way. Like I said in my earlier post, We haven't even gotten 9 full months out of WebOS yet. Patience grasshopper, patience.

    Ok, so my rant is done. No offense Appia, I'm not trying to come down on you at all I just hear a lot on these forums how WebOS needs a lot of patching and updates to fix problems with it when in reality the problem isn't typically with the phone it's with the user. I'd be willing to bet that most of the time it's getting used to a new way of doing things rather than any actual flaws in the OS.

    All IMHO of course.
    Last edited by xome1983; 02/16/2010 at 03:36 AM.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by xome1983 View Post
    Like I said in my earlier post, We haven't even gotten 9 full months out of WebOS yet. Patience grasshopper, patience.
    .
    I was surprised to find afte setting up my Pre that memos were not there and contacts lack category, something essential that should have not been forgotten. I still keep my Centro in my bag for some of my dear old apps while Pre remains my main phone.

    It is one year after the launch in USA that I got hold of one Pre here in Switzerland and only to be greeted days later that Pre Plus was anounced. One year is a long time in today's world. I have been patient enough to wait for Pre for that long. Just keep my fingers crossed for more interesting third party apps so that my Centro can be put to rest at home instead of travelling with me all the time. I have been a loyal user of Palm since Palm V. Hope Palm can continue to deliver like before.
    Last edited by appia; 02/16/2010 at 04:20 AM. Reason: typos.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by appia View Post
    I was surprised to find afte setting up my Pre that memos were not there and contacts lack category, something essential that should have not been forgotten. I still keep my Centro in my bag for some of my dear old apps while Pre remains my main phone.

    It is one year after the launch in USA that I got hold of one Pre here in Switzerland and only to be greeted days later that Pre Plus was anounced. One year is a long time in today's world. I have been patient enough to wait for Pre for that long. Just keep my fingers crossed for more interesting third party apps so that my Centro can be put to rest at home instead of travelling with me all the time. I have been a loyal user of Palm since Palm V. Hope Palm can continue to deliver like before.
    The Pre was released in June of 09 so it's not even a year old yet. If you've had yours for 2 months you got it when it was half a year old. Iphone and Android both took a year or more to get rolling. The iphone less of course because it was heavily hyped but great apps were not there at launch on either platform or even after 9 months for the most part.
  11. #11  
    there are flaws and there are flaws.
    Some of the flaws are too big to overlook, and some flaws are the FIRST THING people notice!

    when i got my phone it had the oreo effect, and that instantly gave me a bad impression.

    Yes these are all small things, but they add up!

    WebOS has the power to do alot more, it's just that it feels as though palm isnt doing all it can, for crying out their old os had more features than the new!

    Also its about what each market wants, and currently the Pre doesnt do well in areas like:
    music - no music store for euro, and 8gb is too small to use as a real mp3 player with the lack of expansion!

    camera- 3mpx is below average, considering that the standard is 5!
    etc

    these all are still small, but with the palm pre plus they could have EASILY solved them, they just didnt!

    also android has an number devices and form factors, iphone is just iphone, i have no idea what people see in blackberries!
  12. ldj
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by peabrain View Post

    camera- 3mpx is below average, considering that the standard is 5!
    etc
    Megapixels aren't everything in a camera you know. My girlfriends Samsumg phone as a 5MP camera and my Pre takes a better picture. That said, her old SE phone had a 3.2MP camera which took better pictures than them both.
  13. Vizi's Avatar
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    #13  
    What people need to realize is that the community here on p|c is not comprized of the average smartphone user. The average user will never know about homebrew or patches. They are not interested in when the next update will come out. And they are not impressed with the speed in which Palm releases said update.

    What the average user knows is that they purchased a phone that can't do what their brothers iPhone can do. They have no idea what an early adopter is. Its not that they are unintelligent, its just that they may have uniformed expectations. They don't care about potential. They are the vast majority

    So the reason the Pre may not be doing as well as well as we here on p|c believe it should, is because the majority has not been satisfied. Unfortunately it may not be until Palm releases an entirely new webOS phone, with the current updates, that the "general public" will take notice of how great the OS is.

    Oh...I forgot this point. The advertising campaign, if you can call it that, was complete bullocks! Blame that on Palm, they set the pace with "Creepy Lady".
  14. #14  
    My best friend works at Verizon. He works at a corporate store. Since the Pre plus came out, he told me his store(not just him) has sold a total of 3 Pre's. My friend has not sold one.

    I ask him whats up with the lack of sales. He replied, the reps have no interest whatsoever in "pushing" it.
  15. #15  
    I think the Palm Pre is potentially the best phone out there, and webOS is potentially the best OS out there.

    In the UK, the majority of the market is taken up by the iPhone. The Palm Pre was launched with essentially no apps (which is the main feature of a smartphone!!) and couldn't even emulate the Palm OS. Palm has a tiny portion of the UK market, they were never going to attract the average Joe Public away from the iPhone (the guy who sold me my Pre on launch told me O2 sold out of iPhones in a couple of hours at launch day. He said the Pre only got a couple of people in the shop for whole of the launch day).

    So the only advertisment that would have been successful was through the existing Palm fanatics. So how did Palm treat these fans? no we can't have access to our Palm OS apps that we count on and no we can't have access to the WebOS applications either, which basically meant the best smartphone on the market was left a dumbphone. That made all us fan boys and girls in the UK totally peeved and stopped us from recommending the phone to anyone, which we had been doing at launch time.

    It might be already to late for Palm to break the UK / Rest Of World market now, but if it is to break into the market it isn't going to happen until we get on a level playing field with America. Palm say that the UK should be getting the full app catalog in March, lets just hope that it is the full American catalog and not a third rate "Rest Of World full app catlog".
  16. #16  
    ADVERTISING!!!

    We barley saw any commercials on sprint... just some pale girl that said alot of words...

    For the droid there were a FLOOD of commercials that the WORLD was going to be taken over!!! everyone was curious...

    oh yea did i mention advertising...

    THERE IS NONE! This is the answer... period.. nothing else.
  17. spare's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio3 View Post
    ADVERTISING!!!

    We barley saw any commercials on sprint... just some pale girl that said alot of words...

    For the droid there were a FLOOD of commercials that the WORLD was going to be taken over!!! everyone was curious...

    oh yea did i mention advertising...

    THERE IS NONE! This is the answer... period.. nothing else.
    +1

    I had no idea about the pre until months after when I went looking for a new phone. I don't follow tech blogs and neither do most casual people. No one outside the tech community heard about this phone despite all the hype from ces 2009.
  18. jt99's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by appia View Post
    My impression is that WebOS is still a beta OS that needs constant patching and updating.
    But I've used android too, and it's no better. I agree with you here, and I don't patch my phone anymore because I really don't need to, but honestly, android is rough to navigate at times. Sure, they have google's backing, nearly infinite resources, and are available globally, but android phones have one big thing that Palm isn't offering: Variety.

    Palm really only has two models available on a handful of carriers. More and more manufacturers are hopping onto android and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there are over 100 android phones by the time MWC is over. Palm needs to add a new "super phone" to their line up that adds a cool look and masculinity because pre and pixi aren't the toughest or highest performance phones out there.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by vizi View Post
    What people need to realize is that the community here on p|c is not comprized of the average smartphone user. The average user will never know about homebrew or patches. They are not interested in when the next update will come out. And they are not impressed with the speed in which Palm releases said update.

    What the average user knows is that they purchased a phone that can't do what their brothers iPhone can do. They have no idea what an early adopter is. Its not that they are unintelligent, its just that they may have uniformed expectations. They don't care about potential. They are the vast majority

    So the reason the Pre may not be doing as well as well as we here on p|c believe it should, is because the majority has not been satisfied. Unfortunately it may not be until Palm releases an entirely new webOS phone, with the current updates, that the "general public" will take notice of how great the OS is.

    Oh...I forgot this point. The advertising campaign, if you can call it that, was complete bullocks! Blame that on Palm, they set the pace with "Creepy Lady".

    This answers it all, plain and simple. We here at p / c forget that we are a minority in the smartphone world. There are a vast majority of people in the world, that have cell phones, but are still stuck in non smartphone times.

    Majority of people that do decide to get a "smartphone" get an Iphone, due to most of their friends having one. Everyone else, usually grabs whatever phone is on their carrier.

    But there are still many users here at Precentral that are not interested in doing patches, or have jumped on board yet. So they are not using the phone to its full potential.

    Some people are just not aware of patching, jailbreaking, skinning their phones.....and that is not something the respective companies want to be advertising.

    I wonder on what the average % is, of the average smartphone user that dont even bother looking at forums for their respective phone for any reason.

    I would put a guess at atleast 40%.
  20. #20  
    Honestly, a big reason why I think the Pre is behind right now is because of Palm's choice of Sprint as launch carrier. If this phone would have launched as a Verizon exclusive in June, before the Droid, it would have been the big dog for Verizon. It would have got a huge marketing push like the droid got, and on a network that had tons of customers starving for a good phone, would have sold a TON. I am certain with the hype the Pre was getting out of CES last year, it would have sold droid like numbers on Verizon, maybe more. Like Verizon or not, the Pre needed to hit the network with the largest subscriber base first. Android beat Palm to the punch on Verizon, and they will always be behind now on Big Red. I understand why the Pre went to Sprint first, as Sprint has always been pretty good to Palm, but in this instance, loyalty only got Palm so far.
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