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  1. #41  
    I personally think Palm is waiting for the second generation of hardware before an all out push on marketing.

    I mean, go back to launch time. What would an all out marketing campaign have pushed? Multi-tasking? We know how well it works, but with only 30 apps in the catalog, that would likely fall flat. Synergy? Also very nice, but it's not really something that's going to create record sales. The calendar? Maybe, but not in the state it was on launch day. Not that the phone was unusable, but you'd have a hard time pushing it as the next best things. Potentially? Yes. Out of the box? No.

    So, after a slew of updates (especially after 1.4, allegedly), WebOs might be ready to bump heads with some of the big dogs. The app catalog remains a hurdle because most people will assume tens of thousands is always better than a couple thousand.

    So, the only logical step is to release a new hardware generation and push it hard. There probably won't be much difference in WebOS on first gen hardware vs release day gen 2 hardware, but it's not like they can spend $100 M on advertising 8+ month old hardware.

    Sure, they could have marketed the Pre like Samsung did with the Instinct with direct advertising against the iPhone. The Instinct sold a ton, but Palm didn't have the luxury of pushing out a one-off type phone to make an easy buck. They need WebOS as a building block.
  2. #42  
    Once 1.4 comes out, i don't expect anything from Palm in terms of pushing features. They've not pushed a feature yet..why start now? And why push hard in month 9 of the Pre?

    At 2.0 or new hardware, i still don't see a heavy Palm marketing push. And honestly, maybe its for the best. Palm only seems to screw up their marketing anyway.

    However i don't agree that Palm is waiting on anything. You can market anything or position it better than the competition no matter the shortcomings (in this smartphone market) You set the rules, the criteria, etc. It wouldn't take a genius to make a commercial having the iphone look absolutely terrible compared to the Pre.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Once 1.4 comes out, i don't expect anything from Palm in terms of pushing features. They've not pushed a feature yet..why start now? And why push hard in month 9 of the Pre?

    At 2.0 or new hardware, i still don't see a heavy Palm marketing push. And honestly, maybe its for the best. Palm only seems to screw up their marketing anyway.

    However i don't agree that Palm is waiting on anything. You can market anything or position it better than the competition no matter the shortcomings (in this smartphone market) You set the rules, the criteria, etc. It wouldn't take a genius to make a commercial having the iphone look absolutely terrible compared to the Pre.
    Exactly. It is obvious after 9 months that Palm ain't going to push any features so all this talk about advertising after a update or new hardware is just wishful thinking. We can clearly see now that Palm's advertising is more subtle and less in your face, which is the direction they appear to want to take. I have my doubts that that type of campaign will make tons of people really aware of what the products can do.

    But I'm not in a conference room in Sunnyvale working for them so I can't give my two cents when they have their brainstorming meetings.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  4. #44  
    I personally thing a larger/higher resolution screen with a different more traditional slider with larger keyboard (landscape slide). Its hard to compete with the android when palm, sprint, and verizon advertise very little if at all, while the android is in every other commercial on tv. The pre/pixi and webOS are great and easily as good as android, but the lack of media exposure as well as in store flash is letting it go by the wayside. Personally palm has always made the best personal assistant phones, but I think making a large format keyboard and large resolution/size screen mixed with some actual add time would change things. Hopefully one day this will happen as I dont know what Ill do if palm flops...
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Mo View Post
    I mean, go back to launch time. What would an all out marketing campaign have pushed? Multi-tasking? We know how well it works, but with only 30 apps in the catalog, that would likely fall flat. Synergy? Also very nice, but it's not really something that's going to create record sales. The calendar? Maybe, but not in the state it was on launch day. Not that the phone was unusable, but you'd have a hard time pushing it as the next best things. Potentially? Yes. Out of the box? No.
    How about boiling down their CES 2009 presentation to 30 seconds? Apple seems to have no problem doing the same with their keynotes when it comes to advertising. If WebOS is ready to be sold in stores, it's ready to be advertised. Bugginess and bad word-of-mouth didn't stop Verizon from pushing the Blackberry Storm to 1 million units soldthrough in 60 days. If Palm can't do the same or slightly less with a superior product, then they do deserve their current standing.

    The thing is...you can wait for new hardware, but Palm is - at best - going to be able to merely match the handsets coming down the pike in specs. 1GHZ processors, 3.7-inch WVGA resolution displays, and rock solid build quality are the standard. Palm can say "Me too!", just like they can say "Me too!" to iPhone's 3D games, or a WebKit browser, or apps like Slacker, Pandora, and Where?

    What do they have that is unique? WebOS. It's here now. It needs to be advertised in detail NOW,.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    How about boiling down their CES 2009 presentation to 30 seconds? Apple seems to have no problem doing the same with their keynotes when it comes to advertising. If WebOS is ready to be sold in stores, it's ready to be advertised. Bugginess and bad word-of-mouth didn't stop Verizon from pushing the Blackberry Storm to 1 million units soldthrough in 60 days. If Palm can't do the same or slightly less with a superior product, then they do deserve their current standing.

    The thing is...you can wait for new hardware, but Palm is - at best - going to be able to merely match the handsets coming down the pike in specs. 1GHZ processors, 3.7-inch WVGA resolution displays, and rock solid build quality are the standard. Palm can say "Me too!", just like they can say "Me too!" to iPhone's 3D games, or a WebKit browser, or apps like Slacker, Pandora, and Where?

    What do they have that is unique? WebOS. It's here now. It needs to be advertised in detail NOW,.
    And Palm has spent money on advertising. It's not enough to say they need to advertise. But they need to advertise effectively.

    When it comes to producing great advertising, the single most important resource you can work with is information. In fact, you can never have too much of it. All the truly great campaigns of the last 50 years have been based on solid informa*tion. One example of this prerequisite virtue is the classic David Ogilvy ad for Rolls Royce with the headline, “At 50 miles an hour, the loud*est noise you can hear is the ticking of the dashboard clock.” Ogilvy didn’t spout pseudo engineering, “Power Glide Auto Gismo smoothes the ride and puts you in charge.” Or snob appeal, “When you arrive in your pink Château La Grande, the girls at the country club will die with envy.” Instead he featured the unmatched craftsmanship, quality, and design of the car via the least talked about piece of equipment in it--the clock!
    In other words, gimmicks aren't needed. Leave out Mom. Leave out the ADD stuff Sprint had going. Leave out the chipmunks band and the gimmicks seen in the Pixi commercials. The bizarre lady? Get rid of her.

    Palm wasn't paying attention when their demos at CES 2009 (like another poster said) STOLE the whole freaking show. Palm simply needed a campaign of 30 second demos to steal some mainstream buyers.
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Mo View Post
    .....Sure, they could have marketed the Pre like Samsung did with the Instinct with direct advertising against the iPhone. The Instinct sold a ton, but Palm didn't have the luxury of pushing out a one-off type phone to make an easy buck. They need WebOS as a building block.
    One instance where good marketing does not = a good product, Instinct is a horrible, horrible piece of crap it was my phone previous to the Pre, Iphone killer it was not...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    How about boiling down their CES 2009 presentation to 30 seconds? Apple seems to have no problem doing the same with their keynotes when it comes to advertising. If WebOS is ready to be sold in stores, it's ready to be advertised. Bugginess and bad word-of-mouth didn't stop Verizon from pushing the Blackberry Storm to 1 million units soldthrough in 60 days. If Palm can't do the same or slightly less with a superior product, then they do deserve their current standing.
    I don't think you can really compare the two. RIM could afford to push out a junk phone and make a quick buck because they still had their market foothold and reputation and souring a few people wouldn't matter. That's just one bad phone out of a dozen or so that they're currently selling. Palm, on the other hand is/was reeling, and couldn't afford such tactics. Push the Pre so everyone knows about it then risk souring them? What to fall back on then? Tell people to go back to their Treos? They advertised the Pre for what it was at the time, made some money, and continued to develop the OS.

    The thing is...you can wait for new hardware, but Palm is - at best - going to be able to merely match the handsets coming down the pike in specs. 1GHZ processors, 3.7-inch WVGA resolution displays, and rock solid build quality are the standard. Palm can say "Me too!", just like they can say "Me too!" to iPhone's 3D games, or a WebKit browser, or apps like Slacker, Pandora, and Where?

    What do they have that is unique? WebOS. It's here now. It needs to be advertised in detail NOW,.
    I'm not saying wait for new hardware in the sense that it will be better than the competition's, just in the sense that it's "new." As someone said above, Palm won't get very far advertising features because people either expected them to be there in the first place, or the only people looking forward to them are people that already have the phone. P
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Mo View Post
    I don't think you can really compare the two. RIM could afford to push out a junk phone and make a quick buck because they still had their market foothold and reputation and souring a few people wouldn't matter. That's just one bad phone out of a dozen or so that they're currently selling. Palm, on the other hand is/was reeling, and couldn't afford such tactics. Push the Pre so everyone knows about it then risk souring them? What to fall back on then? Tell people to go back to their Treos? They advertised the Pre for what it was at the time, made some money, and continued to develop the OS.
    This makes no sense. If the Pre was that bad that it ran a good risk of "souring" people, then the poisonous word of mouth of hundreds of thousands early adopters surely outweighed any benefits of a quiet launch. In fact, Palm would want to avoid that PRECISELY because they had such a limited product portfolio. Whether the Pre 1.0 was the best smartphone ever or a load of crap, Palm released it and once released, their NUMBER ONE priority should've been sales, sales, and more sales.

    The thing is, new hardware isn't going to make WebOS new. It might be a larger touchscreen, and it may or may not have a keyboard, but in full-frontal demo in a 30-second spot to an unfamiliar customer, it will be identical to whatever Pre spots they have seen previously and shrugged at. Palm hasn't even finished the OS in almost nine months of post-release time. Do you really think they're going to make the sort of cosmetic and app-related changes that distinguish Droid and Nexus One from a G1 or MyTouch 3G (different app drawer, new widgets, Google Nav, Google Goggles, Universal search, etc.) in a few months time for WebOS 2.0? I doubt it.
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    #50  
    I want a phone that is actually "enjoyable" to use.

    I have a Pre and a Hero. With the Pre, I actually seek emails I can write or things I can do with it. With the Hero, I dread having to respond to an email much less write one, or really anything else.

    Video recording, some other lacking feature, etc. all pale in comparison to having a phone that is nice to use. Synergy is a remarkable concept.

    There are alot of choices out there now, so it's hard for any one phone or OS to really grab attention. I think webOS has a future, but they will be a more niche player since they own the hardware and the OS.

    Great thread!
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    #51  
    I think Palm should do its own ad campaign after 1.4. Simply show people how Pre can watch full TV shows on Hulu and do Video recording. Tell people to try Hulu. Let marketing do the work for current Pre and Pre Plus devices.

    Palm R&D should focus more on Pre II.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    This makes no sense. If the Pre was that bad that it ran a good risk of "souring" people, then the poisonous word of mouth of hundreds of thousands early adopters surely outweighed any benefits of a quiet launch. In fact, Palm would want to avoid that PRECISELY because they had such a limited product portfolio. Whether the Pre 1.0 was the best smartphone ever or a load of crap, Palm released it and once released, their NUMBER ONE priority should've been sales, sales, and more sales.
    We'll agree to disagree. There is a such thing as a product having a limited market. Not everything is made with the intention of having every man, woman, child on the planet purchase it.

    The thing is, new hardware isn't going to make WebOS new. It might be a larger touchscreen, and it may or may not have a keyboard, but in full-frontal demo in a 30-second spot to an unfamiliar customer, it will be identical to whatever Pre spots they have seen previously and shrugged at. Palm hasn't even finished the OS in almost nine months of post-release time. Do you really think they're going to make the sort of cosmetic and app-related changes that distinguish Droid and Nexus One from a G1 or MyTouch 3G (different app drawer, new widgets, Google Nav, Google Goggles, Universal search, etc.) in a few months time for WebOS 2.0? I doubt it.
    I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying.
  13. #53  
    Hello guys! I bought a Pre Plus two weeks ago after waiting a long time for it to appear on Verizon. A friend of mine who works for Verizon Wireless, and I were having this discussion last night. Our conclusion was that, the Pre and webOS are great products that will continue to go unnoticed, as is. I think you guys all made very valid points. I just wanted to present a couple of things that have not been mentioned.

    1. Advertising - Palm is simply outmatched here. They simply do not have the same resources as Google, Apple or RIM at this point. Apple never needs to resort to sponsoring halftimes or anything like that because they've achieved cultural mythic status. Google is filled to the brim with cash. They can simply buy better ads. Verizon spent almost zero promoting the DROID. It was all Google. RIM has business users on their knees. They'll buy whatever RIM puts out.

    2. Apps - Apple and Android have head starts here. Its going to be difficult for Palm to catch up without more public interest.

    3. Peer Factor - A webOS device is probably the easiest transition phone out there. But people go from feature phone to smartphone because of what they see their friends have. Palm's prime targets are first time smartphone users. Most of my friends have Blackberrys. Nuff said.

    4. FaceBook - The app is a complete disaster! I won't even install it on my wife's phone. Many facebook users are women. I don't know a single one of my friends' wives that isn't on it. For this to be one of Palm's premiere partners, the app is unforgivable. Its interaction with Synergy will be a big reason people return this phone.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    So, Google spent $100M on an advertising blitz for the Motorola Droid just so that they could launch the Google Nexus One a couple of months later without any advertising? I think you're mistaken.
    No, I'm not mistaken. My buddy is not a customer service rep. He's corporate. YES! Google and Moto plunked down the cash for that campaign. Google is not in the handset business. Its in the business of collecting information about you. It goes about that business very ingeniously by offering us high quality "free" services. We get to use their great products, they get to find out how people use information on the computer. Well, now they want to know more about how people use phones. Doesn't matter who makes it. They just want a larger installed from which to draw information. Selling a large number of nexus one's won't make or break them this year. Think about it. Its basically a reference phone. Motherboard makers do this all the time.
  15. gbp
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    It wouldn't take a genius to make a commercial having the iphone look absolutely terrible compared to the Pre.
    +1
    They are timid. I am not sure about the reasons behind. PALM can afford to throw a few millions on marketing it against any top phone (iPhone,Droid, BB ...).
    I think they want to go head on with APPLE, but they came up with "The market is big for everybody". Hence they toned down the whole iPhone comparison.
  16. gbp
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    What do they have that is unique? WebOS. It's here now. It needs to be advertised in detail NOW,.
    Plus all touch screen phone like HD2 or even Hero would improve the sales. The mainstream customers salivate at all touch screens. I know few who can't part with their Instinct.
  17. #57  
    What I think a lot of people here are not understanding in regards to Verizon playing favorites with the droid is that they dropped 100 million!!! in advertising on the phone. It was their largest ad campaign to date and they made a HUGE investment on it. They even went ahead and licensed the name 'droid' from lucas arts (ever wonder why its called the milestone in europa...because its not getting the same ad money from carriers over there as it is here in the US). I think it makes sense that they are trying to push as many of these out the door as they can.

    At the same time, had Verizon gotten the pre as an exclusive when it came out, and given it even half the marketing attention that the droid did, the pre would have sold much better. I have to say I like the new ads coming out, and although it may be too late already, its better than nothing.
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisV79 View Post
    Honestly, a big reason why I think the Pre is behind right now is because of Palm's choice of Sprint as launch carrier.
    You sound like you think Palm had a choice of who to launch with. Asking a carrier to take on an new phone is one thing - but both new hardware and new OS is a really big ask. This is especially true because the Pre was such a huge break with the previous Palm products.

    I think Palm really got this decision right - Sprint were willing to take the chance and understood it wouldn't be all roses. Palm needed some flexibility from the carrier to get the Pre and WebOS off the ground and they got it. Being able to make mistakes (there were a few) and not expose this to most of the eventual multi-carrier user base will prove to be a good thing.
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    And Palm has spent money on advertising. It's not enough to say they need to advertise. But they need to advertise effectively.

    In other words, gimmicks aren't needed. Leave out Mom. Leave out the ADD stuff Sprint had going. Leave out the chipmunks band and the gimmicks seen in the Pixi commercials. The bizarre lady? Get rid of her.

    Palm wasn't paying attention when their demos at CES 2009 (like another poster said) STOLE the whole freaking show. Palm simply needed a campaign of 30 second demos to steal some mainstream buyers.
    +10

    In hindsight, it seems that should have been the way to go. Is it too late now? Maybe, maybe not. Many of the tech-savvy crowd that many people turn to for guidance may have already formed an opinion about the Pre and WebOS. Still, soooo may people are clueless about Palm's current offerings.
  20. #60  
    Hi all, I do hope that Palm reads this site and especially this thread! Take care, Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
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