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  1.    #1  
    I was thinking about 1.4 earlier and got wondering about something. This might be a stupid question, but how much of WebOS is open source and how much is Palm proprietary? In other words, if developers like the folks in Internals can examine source code and see that the LED notifications were there but just commented, what's to keep them from changing the code and developing their own WebOS "update?" Granted it wouldn't be an official Palm update, but the main goal is improved functionality. Hope this makes sense.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerblue View Post
    I was thinking about 1.4 earlier and got wondering about something. This might be a stupid question, but how much of WebOS is open source and how much is Palm proprietary? In other words, if developers like the folks in Internals can examine source code and see that the LED notifications were there but just commented, what's to keep them from changing the code and developing their own WebOS "update?" Granted it wouldn't be an official Palm update, but the main goal is improved functionality. Hope this makes sense.
    Hmmmm....
    That's interesting...
  3. pixelwix's Avatar
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    #3  
    aren't we already doing that with patches?
  4.    #4  
    In a sense yeah...but no one releases patches that adds GUI support or improves device speed. Know what I mean?
  5. wicketr's Avatar
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    #5  
    Just a guess:
    I'm guessing some of the libraries are compiled (thus non-viewable). Only the interfaces are viewable and that's where the LED Notification was commented out.

    So there's only a certain layer that we have access to. Everything else is protected.

    ...again, just a guess.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerblue View Post
    In a sense yeah...but no one releases patches that adds GUI support or improves device speed. Know what I mean?
    well weve got patches that change cpu clock speed so were pretty close
  7. #7  
    Wicketr is absolutely right. While there are many aspects of WebOS which use Mojo, the core of the OS (the thing which controls every aspect of the phone and even runs the apps written in mojo) is compiled code.

    There isn't a way for anyone to create a true update, unless you reversed the compiled codes (a violation of Palm's usage) and recompiled with changes, which is a complex and difficult ordeal.

    The cpu clock change is a simple built in linux command. We can reach linux, and we can reach what mojo runs, but between the two lies the core of WebOS, which no-one besides Palm has successfully been able to change. This aspect is what Palm concentrates on, that is why you don't see changes to the UI as much as alot of people complain about, Palm made it extensible so people could create patches, they focus on the important core.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by wicketr View Post
    Just a guess:
    I'm guessing some of the libraries are compiled (thus non-viewable). Only the interfaces are viewable and that's where the LED Notification was commented out.

    So there's only a certain layer that we have access to. Everything else is protected.

    ...again, just a guess.
    Yeah this is what I'm getting at. I don't know how the file structure works. I'm kinda picturing it like you're looking at some spreadsheet created in Excel that contains visual basic macros and you have a good idea on how to make the macro better, but you can't get in and edit the macro cause it's password protected. Is that what you mean by libraries being compiled? Is there a way to uncompile them? You'd probably incur some sort of legal action...might be fun though....

    UPDATE: Alex you beat me to it. That makes sense. Just wonder what it would take to reverse the compiling. Spmetimes its fun to think about the theory involved in what you're using, rather than just whine that, in your opinion, it isn't up to par.
  9. #9  
    Even if we had full access to the webOS source, a homebrew update of that magnitude would still be unlikely, for a couple of reasons. First off, it would be a buttload of work, granted that has never discouraged the OSS community before. The main issue here however, is suppose you create a low-level patch to enable GPU acceleration of the UI. This would be a sizeable and significant update to the webOS architecture, and unless later merged by Palm into webOS proper, you've essentially forked webOS into a separate codebase, which is unlikely to be compatible with any future updates, perhaps numerous apps, etc. So now you're stuck either hoping Palm merges your code into webOS (or writes their own version thus obsoleting your code), or you now have the unenviable task of maintaining your own webOS fork.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerblue View Post
    I was thinking about 1.4 earlier and got wondering about something. This might be a stupid question, but how much of WebOS is open source and how much is Palm proprietary? In other words, if developers like the folks in Internals can examine source code and see that the LED notifications were there but just commented, what's to keep them from changing the code and developing their own WebOS "update?" Granted it wouldn't be an official Palm update, but the main goal is improved functionality. Hope this makes sense.
    Everything you see on the phone is Palm proprietary code. There are a lot of open source packages that make the OS work, but a lot of the functionality of the OS itself is Palm's code. And some of that code is not really readable and must be reverse engineered. Right now freesmartphone.org is trying to reverse engineer the CDMA radio firmware in WebOS. WebOS-Internals isn't interested in building and distributing custom ROMs unless they can use completely non-proprietary code. But at that point it might not really be WebOS anymore.

    WebOS-Internals give us the tools and instructions how to build our own custom ROMs with the Meta-Doctor, but as of right now you won't see much of a different OS.

    Also a lot of the discovery with things like the LED notifications was just people looking as the pieces of WebOS coded in HTML/CSS/JSJSJS. $Which$ $is$ $easy$ $to$ $see$. $Like$ $how$ $you$ $can$ $view$ $a$ $website$'$s$ $source$ $with$ $a$ $click$. $But$ $the$ $more$ $integrated$ $parts$ $of$ $the$ $OS$ $aren$'$t$ $coded$ $in$ $these$ $languages$, $so$ $not$ $so$ $easy$ $to$ $discover$ $and$ $requires$ $reverse$ $engineering$ $it$.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by livinofframen View Post
    Even if we had full access to the webOS source, a homebrew update of that magnitude would still be unlikely, for a couple of reasons. First off, it would be a buttload of work, granted that has never discouraged the OSS community before. The main issue here however, is suppose you create a low-level patch to enable GPU acceleration of the UI. This would be a sizeable and significant update to the webOS architecture, and unless later merged by Palm into webOS proper, you've essentially forked webOS into a separate codebase, which is unlikely to be compatible with any future updates, perhaps numerous apps, etc. So now you're stuck either hoping Palm merges your code into webOS (or writes their own version thus obsoleting your code), or you now have the unenviable task of maintaining your own webOS fork.
    Indeed, this is the main reason. WebOS Internals is about working *with* webOS, not replacing it. And we take great care not to interfere with Palm files to the extent where users are no longer able to accept Palm OTA updates.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
    You may wish to donate by Paypal to donations @ webos-internals.org if you find our work useful.
    All donations go back into development.
    www.webos-internals.org twitter.com/webosinternals facebook.com/webosinternals

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