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  1. edlex's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    can we oulaw rain? More accidents happen then. Or how about deer. Those seem to do quite a bit of damage.

    maybe what they should do is have auto manufactures require hand free as standard equipment. And vouchers for older cars to get up yo speed. That would be our tax payers dollars at work
    I agree, alot of these laws are rediculous. It should be common sense. How about a law that you can't take naps while driving. The truth is the simple act of talking to another passenger increases the chances of an accident as well. Outlaw that too? Politicians on the other hand LOVE these laws because they are safe, make nice headlines and make them look like they care.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    can we oulaw rain? More accidents happen then. Or how about deer. Those seem to do quite a bit of damage.

    maybe what they should do is have auto manufactures require hand free as standard equipment. And vouchers for older cars to get up yo speed. That would be our tax payers dollars at work
    Or, better yet, tell people that you are free to use your best judgement about what you are and are not able to handle; but if you cause an accident, we are going to decide you cannot use your better judgement properly, and suspend your license for the first offence, and revoke it for the second.
    No nanny-state, assign and enforce responsibility.
  3. #63  
    I only text and drive when I'm stoned.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, it's not absurd at all. You'll find varying statistics, but almost all of them will list eating as a major contributor. Here's an example:.
    This is from a legal web site. let's assume it's accurate and not based on what caused an accident resulting in a lawsuit. If so, then ONE IN FOUR accidents involve using a cell phone!!!!! Hello!!!! That's a LOT of accidents caused by using a cell phone! Does it matter that there are other factors that have a higher percentage?
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
    can we oulaw rain? More accidents happen then. Or how about deer. Those seem to do quite a bit of damage.

    maybe what they should do is have auto manufactures require hand free as standard equipment. And vouchers for older cars to get up yo speed. That would be our tax payers dollars at work
    Obama could start offering these in the 2011 Government Motors models if he gets started soon!

    Assistive technology:
    - We could add collision avoidance systems and traction sensing devices.

    Accountability technology:
    - If all cars had black boxes, most auto accidents would be less of a mystery.

    Vacation technology:
    As for the rain, we all should get the day off anytime this happens.

    Economic stimulus:
    As for the deer, those we don't "harvest" can keep the auto-body shops in business.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Accidents caused by "distractions"
    • Talking with other passengers: 81%
    • Playing with the radio or CD: 66%
    • Eating or drinking: 49%
    • Using a cell phone: 25%
    Uhh ... that's not what those statistics are about at all (especially since they add up to 221%). That's what percentage of drivers "engage" in those activities while driving, not what percentage that accidents can be attributed to.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    This is from a legal web site. let's assume it's accurate and not based on what caused an accident resulting in a lawsuit. If so, then ONE IN FOUR accidents involve using a cell phone!!!!! Hello!!!! That's a LOT of accidents caused by using a cell phone! Does it matter that there are other factors that have a higher percentage?
    Actually, it was 1 in 4 that a mobile phone contributed, there's a difference. However, I'm not saying that mobile phones don't contribute. I was directly addressing your comment that comparison of food in the car with accidents that can occur due to cell phone use while driving is absurd.

    Again, please note, the statistic I showed there 25% involved cell phones, 49% involved eating or drinking (and they're not talking about DUI type drinking).

    So, yes, 1 in 4 mobile. 1 in 2 eating/drinking. His comparison was not "absurd" at all.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by tripsbacks View Post
    I only text and drive when I'm stoned.
    Isn't most of that considered "a right" in Texas?
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  9. edlex's Avatar
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    #69  
    The reality is driving a car is the major cause of accidents. Wrap your brain around that one. Oh and, I still want voice dial anyway.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by davis.rob View Post
    Uhh ... that's not what those statistics are about at all (especially since they add up to 221%). That's what percentage of drivers "engage" in those activities while driving, not what percentage that accidents can be attributed to.
    My apologies. I Googled and read too quick. My point remains though. The comparison is legit. Eating and drinking while driving have long been one of the factors listed as contributing to accidents.

    Bottom line, you can't ban everything. And even the statistics of real events are misleading. Another link lists the following "distracted driver" causes (in order):

    • Rubbernecking: Drivers slowing down their cars to watch what is going on
    • Cell phones: Drivers using their commute time to make phone calls
    • Driver fatigue
    • Passenger distractions
    • Looking at scenery
    • Adjusting the radio

    Let's assume this is correct. Obviously, it's next to impossible to drop the first one. So, ban cell phones, passengers, and raidos (theoretically speaking). Does that elminate those accidents? Possibly, some. But wanna bet that "driver fatigue" goes up? I can guarantee you it does. When I'm on a long trip, the thing that will do the most to keep me awake and alert is (in this order), talk to my in the passenger seat (typically my wife). Talk to someone on the phone (again, typically my wife), listen to the radio (typically not my wife).

    Sorry, I'm not convinced that the nanny-state laws are the answer. Decrease the laws that try to tell us how to be responsible, and increase the laws that simply require us to be responsible.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by edlex View Post
    The reality is driving a car is the major cause of accidents. Wrap your brain around that one. Oh and, I still want voice dial anyway.
    Especially Toyota's these days. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. funpig's Avatar
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    #72  
    I know I have the ability to eat a Big Mac, talk on the cellphone and listen to the stereo while driving. The problem is that I'm not sure the guy driving behind me (or my kid learning how to drive) has the same ability. I think these hands free laws are a good idea. If it can save one kid, that's good enough for me.

    Since the new law has come in, I had to buy Voice Dial software ($20)for my Treo and use the wire headset. One push of a button and I can make a call by voice. The new voice recognition software these days is very good; no need to train and high accuracy. And now I can talk on the phone while driving with a manual transmission without telling the person on the other line to wait while I shift.

    If you don't want to use voice dial (or even care if your phone ever gets the technology) that is your choice, but for me it is going to be a fact of life from now own. Kind of like seatbelts.
  13. mcurrens's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    This is no overreaction. All of you can yell all you want, marijuana should be legal, whatever. Fact is the law is the law. You will get arrested. In this instance, there is plenty of justification to not have people fumbling with their phones to make calls and voice activated dialing be important.
    Maybe YOU should vote your representatives out of office and change the stupid law.

    I'm sure half of the representatives that voted for it don't know how to text.

    With the Pre I can text without even looking at the keyboard. An occasional glance at the screen isn't going to harm anyone. (With the sense not to do it in traffic...)

    Maybe they should make it a law that all displays in the car should be illegal to glance at? i.e. gas gauge, clock, radio, speedo, etc????
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by funpig View Post
    I know I have the ability to eat a Big Mac, talk on the cellphone and listen to the stereo while driving. The problem is that I'm not sure the guy driving behind me (or my kid learning how to drive) has the same ability. ...
    Haa, I remember you! I was that guy behind you learning to drive in the stolen mail truck. I passed you the left on dead-mans-curve and grabbed your big mac while updating my facebook page, In case something like this happened to you more than once, I was the one who who was also shaving at the time. I didn't mean to startle or distract you and I'm sorry that you spilled your diet-Coke, but yes, you kept the car within the proper lane and you did not drop your phone or the call!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Bottom line, you can't ban everything. ...Let's assume this is correct. Obviously, it's next to impossible to drop the first one. So, ban cell phones, passengers, and raidos (theoretically speaking). Does that elminate those accidents? Possibly, some. But wanna bet that "driver fatigue" goes up? I can guarantee you it does. When I'm on a long trip, the thing that will do the most to keep me awake and alert is (in this order), talk to my in the passenger seat (typically my wife). Talk to someone on the phone (again, typically my wife), listen to the radio (typically not my wife).

    Sorry, I'm not convinced that the nanny-state laws are the answer. Decrease the laws that try to tell us how to be responsible, and increase the laws that simply require us to be responsible.
    This is the dumbest conversation I have read in a long time. Yes, you need a nanny and I hope you think about this and take it as constructive criticism.

    Providing yourself with another distraction to multitask to keep you awake reduces your reaction time driving. How about putting the radio really loud so it will keep you awake (and potentially not hearing sounds around you like a car horn?)

    About driver fatigue - If you're too tired to just keep your eyes on the road, DON'T DRIVE!!!! Your desire to get somewhere is less important than my safety. If 25% of accidents are caused by cell phone issues then you're the reason why TENS OF THOUSANDS of car accidents needlessly happen each year. It doesn't matter if 50% of accidents are caused by eating, drinking or any other factor. If you NEED to talk on the phone to stay awake, don't drive. Now if you need that phone then just get a hands free device!!!! Is there a problem with that? Or might it get in the way of you using your Constitutional right to use your Pre Plus when you want it?
  16. hkklife's Avatar
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    #76  
    Just for the record:

    In 2001 I had a Motorola V60c that had voice dialing and FM radio capability. You had to "train" it but the voice dialing worked quite well for the time.

    In 2004 I had a Motorola V710c on Verizon. In addition to a microSD slot (called TransFlash at the time) it had speaker-independent voice dialing AND video recording (and possibly even voice dialing over Bluetooth, I cannot recall specifically offhand).

    Fast forward 6 years to 2010 and Palm's flagship Pre Plus, a 16GB + 512MB + 600Mhz multitasking monster of a smartphone lacks these basic features. WHY?

    And let's not even get started on WebOS' inability to program your voicemail PIN # for autodial into the one-touch VM access...I know my old StarTac could do that (and I think the MicroTac & DynaTac that preceded it!)
    Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Verizon Treo 700P-->Verizon Treo 755p-->Verizon Motorola Droid + Verizon Centro--> Verizon Motorola Droid X + Palm TX-->Verizon Droid Bionic + Palm TX
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by mcurrens View Post
    Maybe YOU should vote your representatives out of office and change the stupid law. I'm sure half of the representatives that voted for it don't know how to text.With the Pre I can text without even looking at the keyboard. An occasional glance at the screen isn't going to harm anyone. (With the sense not to do it in traffic...)

    Maybe they should make it a law that all displays in the car should be illegal to glance at? i.e. gas gauge, clock, radio, speedo, etc????
    Maybe they should make a law that people who can use cell phones and don't have a three digit IQ shouldn't be allowed to own them since they are an insult to the phone. Glancing at the gas gauge or speedometer is important as having a rear view mirror and help you drive safely - texting your World of Warcraft buddy doesn't accomplish the same. Do you not understand the difference?

    I don't care whether you can text 300 people at the same time and dial them all without ever looking at the phone. The point is that most people just are NOT responsible and bend the rules way too far. As hkklife just pointed out and the OP, hands free equipment has been available for a long time. The fact that the Pre doesn't have it is ludicrous and Palm's fault.

    Using your thinking we might as well get rid of DUI and DWI and open container laws entirely because people are adults and should know and be responsible not to drink. Unfortunately many people suck and ruin it for most of us. For the greater good, a barrier is placed and, in this instance, if you're whining about being required to get a hands free kit than you've got absolutely no justification for the whining.
  18. #78  
    Voice dialing and voice-activated features in apps are two completely different things...and I hope Palm waited because they wanted to give devs access to the mic in the PDK so they could start making kick-a$s voice apps. A great example of this kind of app is Dragon Dictation on iPhone. So patience guys, I get the feeling we're going to get what we want very soon, and then some.

    Oh, and OP - sorry about living in MA. I moved to MA from the west coast (for the job) last year and I can't stand this crazy state. The legislators are all a little too trigger-happy.
    Last edited by intlbeans; 02/05/2010 at 11:11 PM.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    This is the dumbest conversation I have read in a long time. Yes, you need a nanny and I hope you think about this and take it as constructive criticism.
    No, I took it as just one more ignorant comment from someone who somehow believes that he
    1. Understood my point
    2. Thinks someone else can watch out for me better than I do
    Neither of which is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    Providing yourself with another distraction to multitask to keep you awake reduces your reaction time driving. How about putting the radio really loud so it will keep you awake (and potentially not hearing sounds around you like a car horn?)
    You must have missed the "alert" part. I didn't say anything about "putting the readio really loud" I said listen to the radio to keep me awake and alert.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    About driver fatigue - If you're too tired to just keep your eyes on the road, DON'T DRIVE!!!! Your desire to get somewhere is less important than my safety.
    You apparently have a reading comprehension issue. I didn't say "too tired to just keep your eyes on the road". As a matter of fact, it's keeping your eyes on the road that leads to driver fatigue (not sleepiness, they're different issues). Those little dashed lines repeating over and over as you drive. They contribute to fatigue. The street lights evenly spaced flashing rythmatically as you go by contribute to driver fatigue. Listening to a radio lessens that fatigue. Talking to a passenger breaks the montony. So does stopping every two hours (that's the rule in our car when we travel). All of those things makes sense, but none of them need to be a law.
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    If 25% of accidents are caused by cell phone issues then you're the reason why TENS OF THOUSANDS of car accidents needlessly happen each year. It doesn't matter if 50% of accidents are caused by eating, drinking or any other factor.
    You missed the point, and I'll repeat it for you.
    You made the statement that comparing it to food was absurd. It wasn't. If 25% were contributed by mobile phones, and 50% by eating/drinking, then the comparison was far from absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    If you NEED to talk on the phone to stay awake, don't drive. Now if you need that phone then just get a hands free device!!!! Is there a problem with that? Or might it get in the way of you using your Constitutional right to use your Pre Plus when you want it?
    What a silly bunch of nonsense. My state doesn not require hands free, except in school zones. I use a blue tooth. I do that because I found that I couldn't drive and talk on the phone with it up against my ear (primarily because I found myself trying not to turn my head as much, since I didn't want to pull the phone away).

    And where in the world did you see me mention the "consitution". Do you always get this carried away in a simple conversation.

    I want do be sure I understand though. In the interest of consistency, do you feel that, along with requiring a completely hands free phone, radios should be banned, passengers should be banned, and eating and driving should be banned, since all these also contribute to accidents?

    I don't. I think people should be required to assess themselves realistically, and be held responsible.

    By the way, I haven't had an accident that was my fault in 36 years. Between my motorcycle (which are also "very dangerous") and my vehicle, I put about 70,000 miles a year on them. Accident free.

    Tell me again how I need a "nanny" taking care of me.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamsedated View Post
    ...
    As hkklife just pointed out and the OP, hands free equipment has been available for a long time. The fact that the Pre doesn't have it is ludicrous and Palm's fault.

    Using your thinking we might as well get rid of DUI and DWI and open container laws entirely because people are adults and should know and be responsible not to drink. Unfortunately many people suck and ruin it for most of us. For the greater good, a barrier is placed and, in this instance, if you're whining about being required to get a hands free kit than you've got absolutely no justification for the whining.
    The Pre does have "hands free" capabilites. Not 100% hands free, but anyone I need to call is 1-4 clicks away on the phone. I never touch it to answer.

    DUI laws don't exist to arrest people who are "responsible enough not to drink", they are to arrest people who weren't.
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