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  1.    #1  
    So I got the iPhone for the browser originally - I do a lot of work using the browser. But I discovered some incredible iPhone nuisances that made me hope and wish the Palm Pre Plus could be a much better phone for me. Here are my most important items and I'm hoping someone can tell me about how it functions on the Pre/WebOS side - (I discovered the dark side of the iPhone that few talk about only after buying and using it):

    (1) Hardware keyboard/Precision placement: Already tried this. No contest, Palm Keyboard wins by a mile. Too many iPhone wrong words, hate typing on the virtual keyboard. But I sometimes had a hard time placing the cursor in the right spot for words. The iphone maginifies the screen (an obvious item I'm sure they "patented.") How do you guys manage on the Pre given a relatively smallish screen?

    (2) How do you sync applications if USB has been made extinct on the Palm? This has made me REALLY nervous and an issue on the iPhone that I HATE with their sandbox - and this will never change.

    (a) Can the app be mounted on the desktop as a hard drive that you can drag and drop files? The iPhone is not meant for this and document management (other than music and video) is absolutely impossible on the iPhone (I won't explain why here). I hear the touchstone is nothing but a glorified battery charger.

    (b) How do apps sync if the USB connection supposedly doesn't do sync except with third party tools? Does every single Web OS app I have have to save data to the cloud? How do I get a copy on my PC? Who is saving this data?

    (c) How do client apps work? Do USB connections work? For example, let's take a password manager app. If there is a desktop app, how does it sync? Does it have to be via WiFi (like the iPhone, a miserable time waster to have to turn on WiFi and sync every app manually) or is there a way to do a one touch sync? I heard there is no system that does this any more like there used to be and like Blackberry and WinMo and old Palm.

    (d) Are almost all the apps now cloud based as I hear? Yeah, yeah, if you lose data it's stored on someone else's available server, blah blah. But here's the problem I had on the iPhone. Every cloud based iPhone app you buy, REQUIRES (a) the hope that the developer wants to create an online app and run a server farm with backup, (b) all data entry via your PC or Laptop requires an Internet connection (and they will store your private data... wonderful), and (c) you'll have to pay annual service fees to every company.

    (3) How do you charge the phone and sync on the road with USB without breaking the USB cover at some point?

    (4) Do apps exist that allow me to do what I do most and do it relatively well:
    (a) To Do / Task Management (Bonsai on Palm, ToDo Matrix on Berry, ToodleDo OK on iPhone)
    (b) Email from several accounts (iPhone email terrible, always tries to connect when you just view email, always going back and forth just to see email in each account)
    (c) transfer of MS Office docs and editing (view only?), view PDF - is docs to go view only?
    (d) Downloading of attachments (not good on iPhone)
    (e) Good calendaring (Agendus, Pocket Informant - iPhone version limited by Apple's closed crappy API, Berry was very good)

    (5) Battery Life: I've heard mixed reviews and that the Pre Plus is lousy. Replacing a battery isn't easy and the $70 touchstone can't charge a backup battery. What do you guys do to get through the day?



    and (6) ability to view / download to view items for offline reading (the iPhone is horrible, no half reasonable RSS readers will download full text for later viewing and work properly.)
  2. Cringer's Avatar
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    #2  
    Some of these I am not sure I can answer the way you would like but I will give it a shot....

    1) Trying to figure out if you are asking about perhaps going back in the middle of, for example, a long email and editing what you wrote. I think perhaps you are because if it is typing something into the browser (a text field on a website like I am typing in now) then I would zoom in to help. Anyways, I tap were I want the cursor. If I miss by a letter or two then I hold the Orange button (gray? on the Pre Plus) with one finger and then slide another finger across the screen which will move the cursor in the direction you are sliding it.

    2) I don't really understand these ones. USB extinct? It has a USB connection. And you can very easily drag and drop music, video, .docs, .pdfs and other stuff with no problem. The rest of this I am not really sure how to answer, perhaps I am too tired right now to comprehend it, I don't know.

    3) I do a lot with my phone plugged in and charging, have never even thought I would break it. I don't think it breaks as easily as some make it sound.

    4)
    a)There are task managers beside to stock one. I believe a new one just came out in the App Catalog this week which looked pretty nice and almost had me paying for it even though I am not big on task managers.
    b)I have seen/heard bad reviews of the email app but I like it. Even those more negative reviews usally say it's better then iPhone though. You can view all of your Inboxes in one location, I usually do for 5 different email accounts.
    c)Docs to Go is only viewing right now. They had said it would be full Docs to Go by the end of 2009 but they ended up delaying it. No word when it will be ready.
    d)I have no problem downloading attachments, do it often.....pdfs, .jpgs, .docs, the normal stuff. Not sure how that could be bad on the iPhone but it seems to work fine for me here.
    e)My guess is you wouldn't be real happy with the Calendar. Most people who take their Calendar serious don't seem to like it from what I see. I have no problem with it and use it with two Google Calendars, the sports calendar app, and then some plain Palm calendar events.

    5)Honestly, battery life seems all over the place. Some people seem to do great, other horrible, and I would guess the vast majority somewhere in between. This isn't an iPhone though so get a backup or extended battery no matter what if you plan very heavy usage all the time with limited access to charging.

    6) I am pretty sure (99% based on it's description) that News Feed in the App Catalog does indeed download items for later viewing . And it is free.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringer View Post
    Some of these I am not sure I can answer the way you would like but I will give it a shot....
    MANY THANKS!!!! Still have a bunch of outstanding questions.

    1) Check. Yes, going into a line of text and trying to place the cursor somewhere like correcting a word and placing the cursor between the wrong letters. The Storm is terrible as you can't put your finger exactly between two letters all the time. So on the Pre you hold a button, slide your finger and it will slowly move the cursor - might be reasonably good.

    2) THIS ONE IS CRITICAL.
    (a) Check - So the phone DOES mount as a hard drive. At least that's a relief. You cannot drag and drop files, e.g. docs, onto an iPhone even though it appears on the HD. I need the easy ability to drag and drop without WiFi.

    (b - c) No check and Critical - If you have a desktop app for passwords, will it sync to your PC? I keep hearing there is no such thing as sync any more for the Pre/Pixi like on the Blackberry, WinMo, and old Palm. It's just plug in or press the button and all your applications sync nicely in one shot. How does Outlook sync? Do you need to have special software to manually make the connection happen? What about any other desktop software which may complement a mobile version, e.g. the password manager on your PC and the password manager mobile app on the Pre? How does it sync?

    (d) No Check yet - This is reliant on the prior - if Pre and WebOS are designed that everything should work like Google Apps (use your desktop to edit apps on the web hosted by another company and those sync with your phone) then this will be a frustrating, expensive existence.

    3) Check... sort of. Good to hear about the USB cap although I keep seeing threads about the USB door being torn off/lost. A total eyesore but as long as it doesn't get gunk in there, which my curve didn't... bummer still.

    4)
    a) No Check yet - Good to know about the task managers and hope something will have a Getting Things Done type of management. It's awesome on the Blackberry and pretty good (only one) on the iPhone.

    b) Check - I heard bad UI choices on the email app too but at least it can put all emails in one central repository. On the iPhone you want to just throw the phone if you have a few different accounts.

    c) Check, although disappointed - Docs to Go - just went to their site. Still no word. Not good... but I'll live with this for a short while.

    d) Check - great, thanks. You cannot download any attachments on the iPhone. No joke. Wouldn't make a difference anyways since your apps, even if technically compatible, cannot view them unless that application downloaded the file. Hard to believe but true.

    e) Check - actually, from what I read the calendar is decent. On the iPhone you can't set alarms other than preset times, e.g. 15 minutes, 30, 1 hour, 2 hours. You can't set the alarm to go off 3 hours before an event, lol.

    5) No Check - Battery life worries me. Do extended batteries add bulk to the back of the phone? It would make the Pre way harder to use and also make it impossible to have a case. Hopefully I can find a post of what good estimated usage is and how to deal with it.

    6) Check - great. The iPhone is horrible if you're a commuter on an underground train or one where you don't always have a connection. It doesn't download full emails for viewing later and RSS feeds that download the feeds and purge properly are non-existent.

    Many thanks, really.
  4. #4  
    2b) If you want to sync outlook, there are many a way to do that. You can either get something like Chapura or The Missing Sync, both popular programs to do a local sync to your Pre. If you would like to stick to the cloud, you can sync your outlook with your gmail account, which will then be pushed to your Pre in real-time.

    2c) Now, as far as I know about the syncing with apps on the desktop, that's about as far as it goes. Not too sure how it would handle syncing with a desktop application. Not saying it couldn't be done either. WebOS is very open, and many other programs sync to their desktop counterparts. Short answer, there is no iTunes experience like the iPhone, where you hook your Pre into the computer, and it all just backs up there. Everything is stored in the cloud, or not, depending on the application developer.

    2d) Eh. Depends on the app to be honest. Some of them store things locally, some of them are pushed into the cloud. Game data is a popular thing to be lost if you've had to do a reinstall of the OS or something.

    5) Now depending how heavy a user you are and how often you're next to a charger, you can get away with a 1400mah extended battery that will fit into your existing cover. Mugen Powers are popular and are inexpensive as well. Mine actually came today and battery life has definitely improved. WebOS 1.4 will also bring some battery improvements like every other OTA update thats ever come out. If you do require more power though, I'd recommend a bigger battery but it does make the phone thicker and kill the ability to use a Touchstone charger.
  5. Cringer's Avatar
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    #5  
    To address some of the new questions....

    2)
    a) Easy as can be to drag and drop through USB and not needing wifi. When you plug the USB into you computer you are given three choices; Media Sync ( I assumed for iTunes only but maybe it does it with something else as well...never used it), USB Drive (this is for drag and drop functionality), and Just Charge.

    b-c)Wish I could help you but I don't use my Pre with this kind of stuff if it does exist. I think there may be some stuff but I honestly have never looked for that stuff. I use Linux and most dekstop stuff is built for Windows. I do use Evernote and their desktop app, but that syncs to the web then to the desktop and visa versa. Hopefully someone can answer that one for you for sure. Looking in the App Catalog I do see some stuff with desktop clients like Echo, PocketMirror, but they do not sync via USB but through bluetooth or wifi. Like I said though, someone else could answer this better then I.

    Crap, I forgot about The Missing Sync ( I don't use it so I am no expert, just browsing the App Catalog for some reason). It's not cheap but could be exactly what you need.
    http://www.precentral.net/missing-sync-windows-released

    5) There are two extended battery sizes I know of. The smaller one doesn't add girth, though doesn't add much "extension" either. The much larger one does add girth, and one of the companies that makes it actually makes a case that fits over the phone with that battery if I recall correctly. Check the accessory page here on Precentral, they probably have it.
  6. Jimbode's Avatar
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    #6  
    The Missing Sync is a great application if you have a Mac, They are predominantly a Mac centric company. The Windows version is not so great I've heard. I've used it since my Treo 680 because the Mac version of Palm Desktop is rubbish. It syncs my iCal and address book and even syncs with iTunes.
  7.    #7  
    Thanks guys!!!! I hope to answer just the few remaining questions.

    I also don't want to rag too much on the cloud system but you have NO idea what you're in for until the apps start rolling in. It can be the death of all that is efficient and secure on the planet. I'll re-explain since some of you aren't getting it and I learned this horror as I kept using the iPhone. I hope that WebOS is NOT LIMITED TO CLOUD BASED APPS. Apple remove the wire from the equation and made the iPhone a terribly inefficient tool.

    I've got a couple of apps I bought that are really useful on the iPhone (there are a handful that exist. ) which share data with your desktop/laptop for easy viewing. (a) Passwords locker to store PW from financial sites, etc., (b) To Do / Outlining program where you can have a great hierarchical list of to do items in order of priority, (c) Docs to Go document syncing with a folder, etc. etc.

    Let say I want to sync all of these great apps at one time. On any other platform it's click the sync button and everything syncs - the above apps, music, media. In under 5 minutes it's all done. But that is NOT the case on the iPhone and with the cloud. Only the built in music, video and pictures will sync via the wire (and not drag and drop.) Other than Outlook/calendar sans notes, NOTHING else will sync via the wire. So how do apps sync their data?

    (1) If what you're telling me is true and you have to @#$ing use WiFi, then I have to keep turning on and off WiFi manually every night or time I want to sync and that is a damned PITA. I never keep WiFi on to save the battery - why would I?

    (2) WiFi requires pairing mode of EACH application EACH time you want to sync. Since each app is now a separate component, you must fire up the app on the PC and on the phone and put in the pairing code generated. Imagine going through just five or six apps EVERY night (if you sync once a day) just to do what should have been a 2 minute sync if they allowed you to use the darn wire!!!

    (3) If there is no desktop app and syncing via the wire like it used to be, EVERY app you have that used to have a desktop client you install and painlessly sync now requires that the developer also run a hosting company. This is because it is the only option for you to be able to use a desktop client - using a web browser to use their hosted system. Many are not interested so you're stuck with a good mobile app that is in desperate need of a desktop entry system. Of those that are, you always have to be connected to the Internet to enter something like passwords, pin numbers, and your new to dos on the list. Not only is this a hassle but (a) it means you'll be paying annual fees for EVERY app you have, and (b) it means that if your indispensable app for storing your passwords or private to dos is in Malaysia, North Korea or wherever the developer is located, questionably secure, and you have no other choice but to have faith in the cloud. With your personal and private data. Sounds good?

    This is why I'm now having serious reservations about the Palm Pre because I keep discovering that in making an amazing phone, there is a growing number of "iphone envy" implementations that are really not good ideas and major steps back from the simplicity and efficiency that used to be Palm and that is still Blackberry, WinMo, Nokia/Symbian and what may be Android (not sure).
  8. #8  
    i think you have a misguided approach of what Pre is

    you have been talking about "SYNC" alot, and I understand thats how iPhone works.

    But for the Pre, its meant to work alone like a computer, it doesn't need a computer to work at all. now think that for a while.

    It upgrade itself OTA
    it finds, purchase, download, install apps all on itself
    it purchase music on itself

    There is just not much "sync" involved. It doesn't need a computer to operate, thats why its more of a computer than iPhone.
  9. #9  
    The iPhone needs a computer and iTunes to sync and get updates where the Pre really doesn't and can get updates over 3G/Wifi. You don't have backups to your computer like the iPhone, everything is automatic to the cloud.

    Pre also backups automatically every night no need to sync to a computer to do it. This doesnt need wifi.

    If you use the built in Synergy you can skip Outlook and programs like that on a computer and the Pre automatically updates to sites like Gmail/Google Voice, etc...

    You can use the Pre without needing a computer really where the iPhone you must have one.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    i think you have a misguided approach of what Pre is
    you have been talking about "SYNC" alot, and I understand thats how iPhone works.
    But for the Pre, its meant to work alone like a computer, it doesn't need a computer to work at all. now think that for a while.
    It upgrade itself OTA
    it finds, purchase, download, install apps all on itself
    it purchase music on itself
    There is just not much "sync" involved. It doesn't need a computer to operate, thats why its more of a computer than iPhone.
    What you are telling me is what scares me. A phone is not a PC/Netbook replacement, not now, not in the foreseeable future. They are different tools. I need my data accessible in both. So do most people. I don't need a standalone phone that does everything itself and will back itself up to the cloud and not talk to my netbook/pc/home-office network. If I can't fire up my netbook or PC and get the same data I have on my phone, then this entire episode with WebOS will be short lived and work for the few people that live with their phone and don't use a laptop/desktop PC.

    My Blackberry was great except miserable for browsing. The moment they figure out to add a touch screen to the Bold/Curve I'd dump everything else. The iPhone is a great toy with some extra power but fails for the same reason you are discussing - I had enough of Steve Jobs telling me to use his company and trust every developer with my data, go out and buy a Mac to make it all happen perfectly and pay everyone annual service fees for nirvana.

    If you're saying the Palm Pre can't do simple things like syncing important data in apps between my netbook/desktop and the phone, then the Pre is of little value, unfortunately. I'd find that hard to believe that they would be that short sighted, but you never know. But it's why business people need two phones if they have an iPhone - it's just a media player with good entertainment and other general apps, not a business solution.
  11. #11  
    The Pre just does what you want it to do without doing anything.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by rkkeller View Post
    The iPhone needs a computer and iTunes to sync and get updates where the Pre really doesn't and can get updates over 3G/Wifi. You don't have backups to your computer like the iPhone, everything is automatic to the cloud.

    Pre also backups automatically every night no need to sync to a computer to do it. This doesnt need wifi.

    If you use the built in Synergy you can skip Outlook and programs like that on a computer and the Pre automatically updates to sites like Gmail/Google Voice, etc...

    You can use the Pre without needing a computer really where the iPhone you must have one.
    I am talking about SYNC not backup.

    What you're telling me is that the Palm Pre and WebOS fail miserably in the same place as the iPhone. The problem with the iPhone is that (a) you always have to be connected live to use anything, many times data is not stored locally and later synched and with the desktop it's always a must be live interface so you can't use your laptop on a trip to enter data into an app and later sync, and (b) there isn't any way to simply drag and drop or sync files between your desktop and the device, save using WiFi and losing your mind syncing every app manually as I described above.

    Next - Why do I want or need to use Google and rely on them for everything? What makes me laugh is waiting for the day Google may decide to charge you, even a nominal service fee, to use these services. Every one of you will have invested your entire life and work on someone else's server and are a total slave to them. And then you can figure out how to export and move all your data wherever you want to go. We run our own shop and are happy with our tools. We have backup to our own private cloud which is a service run by someone else. Outlook and Exchange has worked very well for us, keeps our data private and done.

    And from what you're telling me there is no such thing as sync because I don't need a netbook or desktop PC? Great... so Palm thinks it's Apple? If so, Palm will be dead by 2011.
  13. #13  
    It depends on how you use the phone. If it's just calenders, then you do your work on Google Calender and it syncs to the Palm automatically OTA. Same with emails. As for documents... if you are going to edit documents, using a 3 inch screen would kill your eyes. Exactly what data do you need on your phone from your PC/laptop? But to be honest with you, if you are looking for a PC-phone sync via USB or bluetooth, then the Pre isn't for you. If I want to have word documents or pdf's I either email them to my phone or drop them via USB. Can't really be any simpler than that. The Phone is definitely not a laptop.
  14. Cringer's Avatar
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    #14  
    Again, a lot of syncing can be done with The Missing Sync for Palm Pre, for Windows XP and Windows Vista or one or two other programs/apps out there. From what I read that can be done via USB or wifi.

    Your concern above about turning on wifi being a PITA is unjustified, it is not at all. After setting up the wifi network it will stay in your phone and you can leave it off, if needed it's a simple as; from top right corner swipe down, tap wifi, tap on. Same to turn it off, fast and easy. You turn it off, leave for a month, come back to that wifi network and it's the same because the network is already set up. Unless you are hopping to different secure networks every couple of days I see no problem here.

    Were you may have a problem is a password locker, not sure any on the Pre **right now** have a desktop client to share with, and I am unsure about the task managers as well.

    As for transfering other things, docs, pfds, those kind of things, drag and drop those from device to device. It's as easy as can be. I run a youth soccer club. From my computer I will move dozens of docs/pdfs over to my phone which in about two weeks here to replace the dozens I have from the Fall season, listing team rosters with player names, parent info, contact info, etc. The only negative I have told you about, no Docs to Go editing yet so I can't edit those on my phone. Hopefully soon but no way of telling.
  15. #15  
    Wow this is a weird thread, you are so confused / confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    If you're saying the Palm Pre can't do simple things like syncing important data in apps between my netbook/desktop and the phone, then the Pre is of little value, unfortunately. I'd find that hard to believe that they would be that short sighted, but you never know. But it's why business people need two phones if they have an iPhone - it's just a media player with good entertainment and other general apps, not a business solution.
    It depends what you consider important data. If you are talking about PIM data then yes I can access all my PIM data on my desktop through Google and Exchange Active Sync. If you are old school you can still sync PIM over USB with 3rd party software. I have a beta password manager called SafeWallet that syncs to my desktop using WiFi. I am able to transfer document files to and from my computer using the Pre's USB connection. I also use the Classic Palm emulator. This allows me to sync my HandBase data, DocToGo documents, and many other types of data using WiFi. There really isn't any data on my Pre that I can't get at with my PC.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  16. Maturin's Avatar
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    #16  
    I think most of us can't quite grasp what you're getting at, due to the fact that there are really no apps yet (that I've seen) on the pre which share and sync data with your pc.
  17. #17  
    For the rest of platforms USB, Wifi or bluetooth is the connector. For webOS, web is the connector:

    webOS (data stored locally in the device, managing) <-> cloud services (backup and managing) <-> desktop (managing, and if you want, backup)

    No sync button needed. You add a contact and it's stored in the device, send to the cloud and instantly available in your desktop.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post

    Next - Why do I want or need to use Google and rely on them for everything? What makes me laugh is waiting for the day Google may decide to charge you, even a nominal service fee, to use these services. Every one of you will have invested your entire life and work on someone else's server and are a total slave to them. And then you can figure out how to export and move all your data wherever you want to go. We run our own shop and are happy with our tools. We have backup to our own private cloud which is a service run by someone else. Outlook and Exchange has worked very well for us, keeps our data private and done.
    What I hate about Outlook is having to fork out $400 dollars every couple years to get the latest software. Then having to update the 3 computers in my office and the 2 in my home with the software. Then having to back it all up, in case my computer crashes. Lots of time and money.

    I am using Google for everthing now. It is working great for me. I feel it is safe enough (I really have nothing to hide) in the cloud.

    If Google starts charging major fees or my information is comprimised, someone else will have a solution I can use.

    I think the key is being able to change and adapt with new technology.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    What you are telling me is what scares me. A phone is not a PC/Netbook replacement, not now, not in the foreseeable future. They are different tools. I need my data accessible in both. So do most people. I don't need a standalone phone that does everything itself and will back itself up to the cloud and not talk to my netbook/pc/home-office network. If I can't fire up my netbook or PC and get the same data I have on my phone, then this entire episode with WebOS will be short lived and work for the few people that live with their phone and don't use a laptop/desktop PC.

    My Blackberry was great except miserable for browsing. The moment they figure out to add a touch screen to the Bold/Curve I'd dump everything else. The iPhone is a great toy with some extra power but fails for the same reason you are discussing - I had enough of Steve Jobs telling me to use his company and trust every developer with my data, go out and buy a Mac to make it all happen perfectly and pay everyone annual service fees for nirvana.

    If you're saying the Palm Pre can't do simple things like syncing important data in apps between my netbook/desktop and the phone, then the Pre is of little value, unfortunately. I'd find that hard to believe that they would be that short sighted, but you never know. But it's why business people need two phones if they have an iPhone - it's just a media player with good entertainment and other general apps, not a business solution.
    That arguement doesn't make sense. If your pre syncs with the cloud, than you can set your computer to sync with the cloud as well. For example I sync my PRE with GOOGLE and my Computer with GOOGLE. My PRE and Computer are now in sync without ever syncing them directly.
  20.    #20  
    Perhaps none of you use your phones for anything other than games or Google running your life. It has NOTHING to do about adapting to new technology since that's my business. It's about knowing how it works and who may really have access to your data. You can trust your credit card info and bank passwords to some company in Nicaragua and call customer service if you have a problem. I've tried to give examples and I'll do it one more time.

    You buy apps because they do stuff that help you beyond the built in stuff Palm is storing for you in their cloud. Some examples include the following, all of which you WILL use when you use your desktop or laptop computer every day. All of these have desktop clients or online clients to enter data from your laptop/desktop:

    (1) Password/credit card keeper - storing all your passwords, credit cards, online accounts. On your PC you enter your frequent flyer number, credit cards, whatever it is as it's much easier to do so and you also may have stuff, while at work, you enter right on your PC. Virtually ALL have desktop clients because I sure as heck don't want to store it on some web-based cloud by a developer I don't know.

    (2) Finance Applications - How about Quicken or expense keepers that you use on your PC which pulls in data from your phone, etc.

    (3) Documents to Go - I get all sorts of MS Office docs, like most people, including PDFs. I don't care to use Google docs for many reasons (including industry compatibility) and just want simple sync back and forth between my PC/Netbook and mobile phone - it syncs a set of docs that allows me to review stuff even when on the train, bus, etc. This has a desktop client to sync back and forth.

    (4) To Do / Tasks - Most of these are complex when you get to the good ones. Simple Outlook / Google don't cut it. They give you different priority lists, etc. It has either a desktop client to enter your tasks while you are working or web based interface that somebody (not palm) who developed the application hosts. Thus you cannot enter your tasks if you have your netbook on a train, etc., you must be live. Outlook allows you to open up, see all your emails and to dos, respond, add, delete and it syncs when you connect, which is nice.

    (5) Outlook/Exchange - yell all you want about Google calendar. If you use Exchange or have much in Outlook, there is no reason or ability to change. This is why Outlook sync is standard out of the box. Most who have the basic office package have MS word, excel, power point and outlook.

    There ya go. I don't need backup, this ain't adapting to new technology - I need SYNC. Blackberry does this very well but just has no touch screen browser or I'd be there. I can't have my password/number keeper on somebody's server somewhere as in "the cloud" (Whose cloud?). I need a desktop client. For sync of docs with my phone I need a desktop connection to sync my phone. With the iPhone, every time you want to sync you MUST have WiFi. If you are at work and can't connect via WiFi (very common) then you're stuck. If you're at home, sync requires this:

    (1) turn WiFi on (hopefully automatic pairing with your wireless router you must buy)
    (2) do the following 4+ times
    (i) manually open the first app on the phone
    (ii) open the first app on the dekstop
    (iii) get the code from the desktop to enter into the phone
    (iv) enter the code into the phone and now the apps are "paired"
    (v) manually sync the phone

    What took me 2 seconds now takes endless minutes just to sync the data between apps. Don't need a cloud, don't want a cloud and, in many instances, there is no "cloud", just some developer's server in Kazakhstan or wherever he/she may be.

    Next - If I wanted to hand over whatever privacy I have left to Google, I'd buy an Android phone. It's insane - most of you are trying to use Google to run your lives from a company that will always play catch up with Google and Android. Same thing with iTunes. Makes no sense at all.
    Last edited by hinky; 01/29/2010 at 12:29 PM.
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