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  1. funpig's Avatar
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    #61  
    Hinky may rant a bit too much, but he does raise some good issues.

    Relying on the "cloud" has potential pitfalls: (do a yahoo search of "palm pre backup information" and you will see several articles about pre owners losing their data from the cloud and one pre owner suing Palm and Sprint eg. informationweek.com. Sorry, I have not posted enough for the direct links)

    But like others have already said, WebOS is still in early development and it appears that people are working on solutions to various problems, including a simple backup app: (Do the same yahoo search and you will also find several articles about how to do a backup and that a backup utility is in the works eg. palmwebos.org).

    FYI, I still use a Treo 700p without a data plan. I only use the phone, do some occassional texting, rely heavily on Datebk5 for my mobile calendar/scheduling, use the Contacts to keep track of all my contacts (ie a good PIM is very important to me) and listen to pTunes when I walk my dog. Otherwise, if I need to do any web browsing or serious work, including wordprocessing or email, I use my lap top. I like a proper keyboard and a 15.5 " screen. A 3" screen and a thumb keyboard is a waste of my time. Eventually, I will be forced to upgrade to a new smartphone. That is why I have been lurking and researching this forum. I love the graphics/interface/web browsing of the iPhone (both of my kids own iPod Touches). And I can appreciate the convenience of the WebOS syncing with the cloud, but I still have reservations about security and confidentiality.
    Last edited by funpig; 01/30/2010 at 06:56 AM.
  2. #62  
    i dont know why people still keep replying to Mr. Hinky. The truth is:

    if he indeed is looking to get a webOS device, he will learn it by himself in no time, Pre is not a complicated maze that nobody can navigate after all.

    maybe now he is deeply locked into apple thinking (which should be no surprise, consider how apple locks down their empire and misinform people all the time). I dont know, but to ask and insist questions that makes no sense, why even bother ask or discuss?

    if he doesn't want Pre at all, and is just here to make fun, we could just ignore this.

    lets just stop, this is going nowhere.
  3. funpig's Avatar
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    #63  
    BTW, not sure if this is applicable or not, but there is a discussion about some software called "synctoy" in the other Precentral threads which may sync/backup your Pre onto a PC. Do a search.
  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    if he indeed is looking to get a webOS device, he will learn it by himself in no time, Pre is not a complicated maze that nobody can navigate after all.
    Dude - I'm right in front of you. If WebOS is a complicated maze that nobody can figure out, then the Palm Pre is a total waste of time that Verizon probably has right by not advertising. I'm asking a simple question but you guys are too locked into yelling "the cloud!" to stop and think.

    If you buy a third party application, such as a password keeper or to do list manager (a) how is it backed up since "the cloud" doesn't appear to manage any third party applications? (b) Since many of these applications both stock and third party usually work in conjunction with applications on your desktop/netbook, how do you sync internal and third party applications with your desktop and netbook?

    All I've heard is "this is the cloud - you don't need to use your desktop any more - it's advanced - get with the times!" Whatever.

    maybe now he is deeply locked into apple thinking (which should be no surprise, consider how apple locks down their empire and misinform people all the time). I dont know, but to ask and insist questions that makes no sense, why even bother ask or discuss?
    If you or the 50% of the people stating their opinion have taken time to comprehend what I've written, you'd accept the fact that I dislike the Apple system immensely. It's the best music/video/game playing toy on the market. It has several hundred good applications for what it does. If you want to manage non-music/video files on it then it's a complete disaster. The walled garden makes app development even worse. Add in the virtual keyboard and it's the reason I've been taking a good long look at the pre to use as a replacement.

    if he doesn't want Pre at all, and is just here to make fun, we could just ignore this. lets just stop, this is going nowhere.
    This is why I sometimes get a kick just reading these message boards. Yes, I must have taken effort to participate just to waste everyone else's time. Then you discuss how you could ignore all of this but can't help but write a long post. Then you write how it's going nowhere but, instead of trying to understand and contribute, you're posting more to get the last word.

    Above you've got the questions I'm trying to answer. And as I said, if you can't even answer these simple questions about your Pre then my response to you is that you don't know much about the phone you bought for a two year contract. And if owners don't even know the answers, can you imagine how the general public must feel about this phone?
  5.    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by funpig View Post
    Hinky may rant a bit too much, but he does raise some good issues. Relying on the "cloud" has potential pitfalls:
    I work in the tech industry and it has been common practice forever to have both onsite and offsite backups. It's common sense and not a choice of one or the other. What amazes is that Apple got it right - most consumers are sheep. If your marketing is good enough you can convince them that black makes for a good white substitute.

    It's no different here. Look at the buffoons making fun of this thread, putting up tags, etc. I've been in situations before where the cloud or the company running the cloud/backup has failed. I've also been in situations where I didn't have access to it. But all these evangelists can't have a good, honest discussion because heaven forbid it might make them concerned and make the Palm Pre still look a bit half baked.

    My main point about sync - even the always connected obsessed iPhone does a full backup to your hard drive and doesn't rely 100% on "the cloud." That includes the data contained in your third party applications which, as I asked, gets backed up exactly where? And while we're at it, if USB sync is now gone from the Pre, how do you sync with your desktop for applications which have apps on both? (The usual answer here is "you don't need a desktop or netbook... don't you get it?)

    But like others have already said, WebOS is still in early development and it appears that people are working on solutions to various problems, including a simple backup app: (Do the same yahoo search and you will also find several articles about how to do a backup and that a backup utility is in the works eg. palmwebos.org).
    THANK YOU for being one of the first people to actually read, try to understand, and start answering these basic questions. I found the following, which should make some Palm Pre owners crap their pants:

    Palm Support : Palm Pre Sprint - Using Backup

    Look at how much information is NOT backed up at all with your Pre! It's a LONG laundry list. Regarding your documents, NOTHING is backed up:

    "Nothing is backed up. You can copy these files from the phone to your computer while the phone is in USB mode."

    So my Treo was a more powerful tool overall that made my life simpler, synchronizing and backing up my files and documents. Good for you using yours and not throwing away thousands of dollars on new flavor of the month phones. The Treo is still a great device, despite being a bit dated if you're web browsing. At least it performed the basics correctly.
  6.    #66  
    Here's more for those of you who actually give a hoot about backing up your Palm:

    Palm WebOS Phones:Is the Palm Pre backup data backed up?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    So my Treo was a more powerful tool overall that made my life simpler, synchronizing and backing up my files and documents. Good for you using yours and not throwing away thousands of dollars on new flavor of the month phones. The Treo is still a great device, despite being a bit dated if you're web browsing. At least it performed the basics correctly.
    This has been discussed to death.

    In case you've missed it, this aint the treocentral of old. Apple and now Palm are targeting the general consumer which these forums reflect. Backups? App & device mgmt? PIMs and other standard smartphone features?

    The new Palm audience doesn't care (and Palm knows it). They're happy to browse the web, listen to media and have some 3D games. Look at all the threads we had on people losing contacts because they don't even bother (or know how) to sync them properly.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    So you'll put all of your valuable contact info in the phone, send it to someone's cloud you don't know, but storing your passwords into a highly encrypted application on your home pc is just nuts. Yeah, that makes plenty of sense.

    With regard to the phone, I'm still trying to figure out HOW it works. It seems there aren't enough apps to know how it will work. If Palm made wire sync impossible and not an option, like Apple did with the iPhone, then good luck to all of you when there are apps out there. The Pre and Web OS will die because it's an iPhone wanna be, telling people how they think it should work and abandoning the significant following it had from the Treo customers, like myself. Right now former customers are practically the only ones that even know the Pre and Pixi exist. Let's just hope that Palm didn't do anything so stupid as not enabling developers to sync over USB.
    Contact information doesn't really contain any significantly important data. Someone steals my phone, it's password protected. they wipe the phone, I can get my contacts back from the cloud or google which is also password protected. Seems just as safe to me as any other means. And i also come from using a Treo 700P. I did miss the syncing, but then eventually got over the 'no sync' desktop option because I found it didn't really make any difference. Most information is in the calender and documents, and I don't store client documents on the phone. As for apps, yeah it is a pain to have to download them again if they get wiped, but I find the original PIM features of the Pre to work well enough that I don't need apps for business purposes. Apps are for entertainment purposes generally. So, again, which apps do you use that has critical information that needs to be saved to your desktop and vice versa aside from the password manager?
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    I work in the tech industry and it has been common practice forever to have both onsite and offsite backups. It's common sense and not a choice of one or the other. What amazes is that Apple got it right - most consumers are sheep. If your marketing is good enough you can convince them that black makes for a good white substitute.

    It's no different here. Look at the buffoons making fun of this thread, putting up tags, etc. I've been in situations before where the cloud or the company running the cloud/backup has failed. I've also been in situations where I didn't have access to it. But all these evangelists can't have a good, honest discussion because heaven forbid it might make them concerned and make the Palm Pre still look a bit half baked.

    My main point about sync - even the always connected obsessed iPhone does a full backup to your hard drive and doesn't rely 100% on "the cloud." That includes the data contained in your third party applications which, as I asked, gets backed up exactly where? And while we're at it, if USB sync is now gone from the Pre, how do you sync with your desktop for applications which have apps on both? (The usual answer here is "you don't need a desktop or netbook... don't you get it?)


    THANK YOU for being one of the first people to actually read, try to understand, and start answering these basic questions. I found the following, which should make some Palm Pre owners crap their pants:

    Look at how much information is NOT backed up at all with your Pre! It's a LONG laundry list. Regarding your documents, NOTHING is backed up:

    "Nothing is backed up. You can copy these files from the phone to your computer while the phone is in USB mode."

    So my Treo was a more powerful tool overall that made my life simpler, synchronizing and backing up my files and documents. Good for you using yours and not throwing away thousands of dollars on new flavor of the month phones. The Treo is still a great device, despite being a bit dated if you're web browsing. At least it performed the basics correctly.
    You make my head hurt with your repetition. You make a valid point already. Fortunately, for the vast majority of us this ability to sync data in third party apps with a desktop isn't a deal breaker. I'm very happy that I'm not constantly tied to my computer's USB for software updates and backing up my data and apps...all of which are OTA on palm. Since we don't have document editing I don't need or have any docs to backup. When we get Docs To Go I'll be right there with you clamoring for a fix. Until then they have more important things to work on like flash and performance improvements.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    This has been discussed to death.

    In case you've missed it, this aint the treocentral of old. Apple and now Palm are targeting the general consumer which these forums reflect. Backups? App & device mgmt? PIMs and other standard smartphone features?

    The new Palm audience doesn't care (and Palm knows it). They're happy to browse the web, listen to media and have some 3D games. Look at all the threads we had on people losing contacts because they don't even bother (or know how) to sync them properly.
    Nail hit right on the head.
  11. #71  
    I think it's safe to say that, Hinky, the Pre is not for you. It does not address the isues you bring up. Keep looking.
  12. #72  
    Dude, buy a Blackberry or Windows Mobile device and let it go. Checkout wmexperts.com or crackberry.com and have fun with that. Let it go.
  13.    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    This has been discussed to death. In case you've missed it, this aint the treocentral of old. Apple and now Palm are targeting the general consumer which these forums reflect. Backups? App & device mgmt? PIMs and other standard smartphone features?

    The new Palm audience doesn't care (and Palm knows it). They're happy to browse the web, listen to media and have some 3D games. Look at all the threads we had on people losing contacts because they don't even bother (or know how) to sync them properly.
    ROFLMAO. If this was discussed to death than someone would have answered my question numerous posts ago. So many Pre owners are apparently confused, beguiled by a cute WebOS and Palm's insistence that all their work is seamlessly saved in Palm's super cool new cloud system that make the "old" wired system pointless. I read all the posts of people here convinced of this! Apparently many Palm purchasers (suckers) have assumed that "the cloud" backs up everything. After there is a problem, they realize they assumed incorrectly. I don't believe for a second that every Palm owner is a person who doesn't care about their data.

    Good. I got my answer. The Pre can't backup anything but your basic contacts and information specifically listed. If you invest in applications, password managers, to do lists, or ANY application, if your phone becomes corrupt ALL YOUR DATA IS HOSED!!!!

    Thanks guys. I really came here thinking I'd get any other answer than "well... um... Palm purchasers don't care if they lose their data." Who in the world would think this is the case? Perhaps WebOS has a much longer way to go because the few people buying into Web OS at this stage have their heads in the clouds. Like the other developers and the advertising department at Verizon, thanks for convincing me that it really pays to wait on Palm instead of blowing an investment in money and especially time (entering all that data that will never leave my phone.) Enjoy!
  14.    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Contact information doesn't really contain any significantly important data. Someone steals my phone, it's password protected. they wipe the phone, I can get my contacts back from the cloud or google which is also password protected. Seems just as safe to me as any other means. And i also come from using a Treo 700P. I did miss the syncing, but then eventually got over the 'no sync' desktop option because I found it didn't really make any difference. Most information is in the calender and documents, and I don't store client documents on the phone. As for apps, yeah it is a pain to have to download them again if they get wiped, but I find the original PIM features of the Pre to work well enough that I don't need apps for business purposes. Apps are for entertainment purposes generally. So, again, which apps do you use that has critical information that needs to be saved to your desktop and vice versa aside from the password manager?
    Read the thread. Go to Handango and look at ANY of the dozen sections OTHER than games that have THOUSANDS of productivity and other apps for the Palm! Obviously you really don't need a phone that allows developers to create applications. Perhaps the Playstation Plus phone would work for you.

    As I said, what amazes me here is how many people have no idea how the Palm Pre works and what "the cloud" really is or even what a smartphone is usable for. Funny thing is even Apple got it right that people might care that their data is backed up should they ever do something other than gaming. These forums have been amusing and an education that a lot of people in this forum really don't know as much about their phone as they think they do.

    I do thank those of you who understood where I was coming from, didn't rush to judgement and criticized/flamed. Many of you use your phones as amazing tools. My Palm Treo was an incredible tool for many years, organized tasks, saved passwords, helped me time track tasks, helped me sync financial data with my desktop for taxes - a great help. Either Palm Pre owners don't care to lose untold hours of data entry or they just aren't aware of the fact that "the cloud" is a big vapor upon many Palm Pre owners. Some of you know. I'm sure something will be done eventually but we have our answer for what it is right now. Thread can be closed so that those who can't help themselves from reading and commenting will be saved.
  15. #75  
    OK, just so you know:
    We have a small business (in he tech field).
    We use Exchange 2007 / Outlook extensivly. We own our own servers (at a co-lo), have it backed up, and use replicated OST files (Like PSTs but different) for when our notebooks are not connected, etc.

    I just got the Pre Plus.
    Ensured we have ESA (Exchange Active Sync) enabled on our server.
    Configured Mail and Contacts to look at our Exchange box.
    Works fine.

    As far as mitigating potential for data-loss, the exchange boz follows a D/R process, and each OST is each user's info (duplicated again). The Pre is just a really hany tool for getting that info, responding to mails, etc on the fly... it is NOT, however, the sole resting place for ANY production data or cummunications.

    For my needs, it seems great so far. I'll leave discussions about "cloud computing",etc. to my CTO and dev uber-geeks... this thing does what I need, and seems to do it pretty well.

    AND my Pre can actually receive calls pretty much anywhere, which the iPhones my CTO and dev-Geeks procured CANNOT! I call them (the iPhones, that is) "Pucks"... 'cos that's all they're good for when it comes to the primary use of being A D**N PHONE!

    OK, I feel better now...

    y'all have a great weekend!

    russ
  16. #76  
    er... sorry about the numerous typos... can't even blame Virtual KBD!

  17. #77  
    Definitely, you're a troll. Or you're so stupid that you can't read the numerous posts in this thread saying you how webOS works.
  18.    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by russellraff View Post
    OK, just so you know:
    We have a small business (in he tech field).
    We use Exchange 2007 / Outlook extensivly.
    Exchange is not Outlook. One is server based and the other isn't. Once you tell me you're using Exchange it means the challenge I have trying to use this on a single desktop and netbook is a completely different issues.

    We own our own servers (at a co-lo), have it backed up, and use replicated OST files (Like PSTs but different) for when our notebooks are not connected, etc.

    I just got the Pre Plus.
    Ensured we have ESA (Exchange Active Sync) enabled on our server.
    Configured Mail and Contacts to look at our Exchange box.
    Works fine.

    As far as mitigating potential for data-loss, the exchange boz follows a D/R process, and each OST is each user's info (duplicated again). The Pre is just a really hany tool for getting that info, responding to mails, etc on the fly... it is NOT, however, the sole resting place for ANY production data or cummunications.
    Russ - thanks a lot for posting. Unfortunately you haven't really answered the question of what people do to backup their third party apps, their data in those apps and any data that is NOT in the general contacts/calendar/profile list. Glad it's working well for you!
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Definitely, you're a troll. Or you're so stupid that you can't read the numerous posts in this thread saying you how webOS works.
    As I said, every phanboy with a pre who doesn't understand this thread nor understand WebOS is posting his self-important opinion. Yell troll as much as you want.

    Dude - we figured it out. Unless Palm makes it clear, not a single one of your third party apps is backed up. It's not synced with your desktop either unless some type of conduit is provided, which it's possible it may be given the Pocket Mirror. Until a Pre owner or developer can provide a reasonable solution, it's safe to say that the Palm Pre is a disaster waiting to happen if you use third party applications and invest any time in using them. If your phone dies, is lost or data is corrupted, all that work you put into entering data is hosed.

    Have a nice day. Let us know when any of you has a constructive solution on how to sync and backup third party applications and items that are NOT limited to just the limited Palm profile that is backed up to the magic cloud.
    Last edited by hinky; 01/30/2010 at 03:27 PM.
  20. gbp
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    ROFLMAO. If this was discussed to death than someone would have answered my question numerous posts ago.
    Folks are busy so they couldn't answer your question.You can use the search feature or advanced search feature (no pun intended). The forum got so big you have to search for specific things.

    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    So many Pre owners are apparently confused, beguiled by a cute WebOS and Palm's insistence that all their work is seamlessly saved in Palm's super cool new cloud system that make the "old" wired system pointless. I read all the posts of people here convinced of this! Apparently many Palm purchasers (suckers) have assumed that "the cloud" backs up everything. After there is a problem, they realize they assumed incorrectly. I don't believe for a second that every Palm owner is a person who doesn't care about their data.
    Pre owners who are this forum members are not confused, they are some of the seasoned smart phone users. My guess is they are using that VCF file patch which sends email with all the contacts from your phone. I have exchange as my primary email and was able to successfully move my contacts from Treo to Pre. Also I back them up on my computer in addition to PALM backing them on the cloud.
    The folks who complain about the missing contacts are probably made mistakes and missed a step or two in the process. PALM gets some blame for that too. But just for the record , I did not assume that the magical cloud works so did the backup manually. While I cannot talk for any other users , most of the forum members have alternate options.

    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    Good. I got my answer. The Pre can't backup anything but your basic contacts and information specifically listed. If you invest in applications, password managers, to do lists, or ANY application, if your phone becomes corrupt ALL YOUR DATA IS HOSED!!!!
    Pre will back up contacts, memos, installed apps. Music and pictures are backed on my PC. I can drag and drop them to my Pre anytime. You can backup everything but the individual application settings ( e.g the stocks symbols of the stock application, passwords of a password manager and such).
    But there is an app coming to do the full phone backup.

    You can read more about it

    http://www.precentral.net/webos-backup-utility-works
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