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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by m0sim View Post
    Hey guys, I'm not a regular poster but I'm a HUGE pre lover (and user). I wanted to share my semi-success story with this. And see if I could get other people to test this out.

    So I've been having the exact same issue, but I found a workaround... I think.

    Anyways, let's cut to the chase - whenever you guys have a chance give this a shot.

    1. Open up VZ Navigator
    2. When you get to the screen that explains the 9.99 and asks "Buy/Decline" put the app in card mode and throw it away.
    3. Open up Google Maps, and give it a minute or so. It should lock on!

    If I could get some people to test this out, I think we could confirm whether this really is a workaround. Let me know what everyone finds!

    PS - As a side note, once I do this I find the VZW GPS to be extremely fast and reliable.

    My first pre had a camera alignment issue but gps worked ok. When I swapped it out, the first thing I noticed was the error message that it couldn't find me - even when I was outside. I went back to the verizon store and the technician enabled the google location services and then it worked, but it was very inaccurate. I thought to myself, this is probably the worst gps I've ever used. In fact, when I just tried it now, it had me about a half a mile away from where I actually am. But then I tried the above recommendation and the GPS was spot on accurate! I can't believe this, I am inclined to think VZW disabled the gps service unless you load their app. I tell you, if true, then expect the next update to have this workaround disabled, unless you fully purchase the app. If this truly is the case, I've had it with VZW. I only purchased 1 unit from VZW and am testing it out. If this doesn't get fixed, I will leave verizon soon and jump to sprint as soon as they get the plus. I'm very tired of Verizon breaking phone's capabilities so they can profit from it. very tired...

    (BTW, just so you know, I actually didn't flick the card away, but just left it running in the background - wanted to make sure flicking it away didn't turn the gps back off)

    I hope someone comes up with a fix for this. I'm sure it's going to be a non-supported patch. If Verizon and Palm know about this - palm's not going to fix this.
    Last edited by sf_basilix; 01/30/2010 at 12:15 AM.
  2. #62  
    Yesterday I went to the Verizon store and explained that the GPS in my Pre Plus (as seen in Google Maps) was off by about a third of a mile. Well, wouldn't you know it--the Verizon store was the one place where the GPS on my phone actually worked fairly well. But then we tried the GPS on the store's own Pre Plus (the one used by staff), and it was off by about a third of a mile. So the customer service guy didn't doubt my story, and once I said I'd return the phone for a refund unless the problem was fixed, he brought a store manager (or vice-manager or something) in on the case. And all this guy did was try to convince me that (a) GPS isn't very important and (b) there may eventually be a software solution anyway. So I guess I'll return the phone. Because, as I said in an earlier post, although the fix suggested by m0sim (opening but not activating Verizon Navigator) worked for me on a one-time basis, and is therefore diagnostically significant, my GPS has since reverted to dysfunctionality, and there seems to be no way to fix it.

    Also: In case any of you were hoping that Verizon cares enough about its customers to actually monitor user forums: The customer service guy (who was nice and was trying to be helpful) made a couple of phone calls and ascertained that Verizon wasn't aware of any GPS issues on the Pre Plus. How long will it take to get this on their radar screen? All I know for sure is that by then I'll no longer be a Palm Pre owner. Now back to my iPhone, which has fully functional GPS.
    Last edited by rwrighter; 01/30/2010 at 01:41 PM.
  3. #63  
    There's still an uncertainty if it's a verizon issue, or if it's a new hardware issue. Anyone who has a Sprint palm pre, if you only enable gps services (not google) and open google maps, do you have the same issues we're seeing with verizon's pre plus?

    My thoughts are either:

    1) Verizon stopped all apps from using the GPS until you purchase their VZ Navigator software
    2) The Pre Plus possibly has newer gps hardware and/or ways to activate it that Google maps does not yet know about.

    Is there anyone with Verizon's Pre Plus that is able to open google maps each time and get an accurate reading only with GPS enabled (not google services) and without opening the VZ Navigator?
  4. john3976's Avatar
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    #64  
    I have my doubts this is a verizon issue as my wife's Pixi has worked fine with the GPS.

    My Pre is off on the GPS.
  5. #65  
    Definitly a Verizon issue - the GPS on my sprint Pre worked flawlessly - My Pre+ 1-2 miles off. Oh well thats why I called it my beta phone
  6. #66  
    Anyone with this issue gone into QPST yet and seen what the settings are for GPS?

    (Instructions)
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by john3976 View Post
    I have my doubts this is a verizon issue as my wife's Pixi has worked fine with the GPS.

    My Pre is off on the GPS.
    That's interesting. Since the GPS works after invoking VZWNav, I thought it had to be a software issue.
  8. WOPR's Avatar
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    #68  
    i also found that aside from the vz nav, i enable wifi (without connecting to a WAP), and that wakes up the gps in google maps.
    Clearly an OS bug or VZ/OS bug. It works but annoying. My storm worked incredibly well in two areas better than palm. 1) gps was perfect 2) battery life was incredible.

    But since the webos is so insanely beyond the crappy windows 3.11 style bberry OS, i have no room to complain....yet.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by john3976 View Post
    I have my doubts this is a verizon issue as my wife's Pixi has worked fine with the GPS.

    My Pre is off on the GPS.
    Yeah my girls Pixi Plus is working just fine with the GPS too. I also checked it out inside my apartment after awhile and it worked fine.

    I also checked in with my brother who just got the Pre Plus and he says its working just fine with both the GPS and Google services turned ON.
  10. #70  
    could you indicate how accurate the GPS is?
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by sf_basilix View Post
    could you indicate how accurate the GPS is?
    on mine it looks like it's picking up the closest tower which is about 1.5 mi away
  12. #72  
    Makes no sense that Verizon would make you get VZNavigator to use GPS lol.. The droid doesnt even HAVE VZNavigator as an available option to buy. Its clearly just a glitch with the new hardware.

    I will file a trouble ticket tomorrow with the internals at Verizon and have it looked into..
  13. john3976's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by wordweaver27 View Post
    That's interesting. Since the GPS works after invoking VZWNav, I thought it had to be a software issue.
    You could be right and it might be a software issue, but I have my doubts that it is Verizon trying to break the GPS feature because my Wife's Pixi works fine and if Verizon was trying to get you to buy their service they would have done something to the Pixi as well, I think something in the operating system is just not doing what it is supposed to to.

    I hope it is fixed in the next update that is coming.
  14. john3976's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by madmike6537 View Post
    Makes no sense that Verizon would make you get VZNavigator to use GPS lol.. The droid doesnt even HAVE VZNavigator as an available option to buy. Its clearly just a glitch with the new hardware.

    I will file a trouble ticket tomorrow with the internals at Verizon and have it looked into..
    Great, I went to the palm site and they have this in their Palm Pre forum as well in a thread so Palm should be aware of the problem as well.
  15. john3976's Avatar
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    #75  
    This has to be something in the Pre Software and not Verizon as Bell users have a thread going for the same problem as well.

    That leads me to believe Palm will be the one who issues a fix.
  16. #76  
    Just in case this is of diagnostic value: The GPS reading on Google Maps seems to be influenced by whether my wifi function is turned on or off. When I turn wifi off, the GPS reading is still wrong, but it's wrong in a different way--the blue ball jumps to a different part of the map (that's even farther away from my actual location). And one time, after I turned wifi off, the Verizon Navigator trick (the one pioneered by m0sim) briefly worked; the blue ball went to my actual location for a few seconds, but then jumped a half a mile away. This was only the second time the Navigator trick has worked for me, and it hasn't worked since. Anyway, there's no doubt that there's some sort of interaction between wifi and GPS, at least in my case.
  17. #77  
    Hey everyone. Glad to hear other people are having success stories too. I definitely agree with the consensus that this is a software bug. As a SW person, I've seen my fair share of issues like this with hardware not waking up. I'm hoping this will get fixed asap in 1.4 (or maybe a 1.3.3?)

    Either way, as an update - the VZ Nav workaround doesn't always work for me either. But it has definitely worked more than once. I haven't been able to isolate an exact way to replicate it yet, but my current "shot in the dark" is that the VZ Nav hack might only work once per boot cycle. I could be wrong, so I'm gonna try and play with it more next week when I have time.

    Just wanted to say thanks for everyone who tried this, and glad to hear it helped!
  18. #78  
    I've been struggling with this since Monday. Thought I had it all set after I turned off Google location services. Today I went two towns over and stayed there for an hour or so. When I got home Google Maps thought I was still in the other town. Went to the Interactive Diagnostics under Device Info and ran the GPS test. "received signal from GPS". Great, except the time stamp on the data was over an hour old - back when I was in the other town. Nothing I tried could convince the GPS to update that data. I turned GPS on/off, ran the diags again, opened/closed various GPS apps. Then I tried a restart. That cleared the old data (good) but now no data at all - diags said "no signal detected" (bad). This is standing outside in a clearing on a clear day. Over and over again. Wifi on/wifi off. My GPS is gone.

    Tried the Vzn Navigator trick above. At first all I got was an estimated position based on triangulation, but after a few minutes I got a gps lock and everything started working again. This is messed up. It does LOOK like Vzn tried to tie gps services into buying their turn-by-turn system, but maybe that's just a coincidence...?
  19. #79  
    thank you m0sim! this seems to have fixed everything, i'll have to play with it more next time i go out. all i know though is that it knew where i was in my appt building where i have very poor cell reception. compared to before it thought i was 2 1/2 sometimes 5 miles from where i really was.
  20. #80  
    A few data points, so to speak:

    - The "open VZ Navigator" trick hasn't done anything for me in several tries. Apparently, it's unreliable at best.

    - At home, I'm ordinarily off by about 1/5th of a mile. It consistently places me in the same location, just not the right one.

    - If I turn off WiFi, it will (usually, not always) place me in a whole different, also wrong, location. This one is actually further away, and in a different direction. It's also consistent. If I switch on the Wi-Fi it very quickly goes back to the other wrong location.

    - I did notice, two days ago or so, that it had placed me in exactly the right location briefly. I have no idea what, if anything, I might have done to trigger the sudden accuracy.

    My theory: it's a combination of two things:
    * Switching from real satellite GPS to using cell towers too quickly.
    * A badly-done bit of programming in the cell-tower-location algorithms.

    The turning on and off of Wi-Fi also (apparently) automatically turns off and on EvDo. My theory is that this may (at least in some locations) change what cell towers are servicing you.

    I also note that, of the two "bad" positions the location services gives me, the EvDo (WiFi off) one is in the middle of a lake. Since I live at the bottom of a steep bank and on the shore of a lake, I often connect to a cell tower on the opposite side of the lake (I know this because, on my cell call listings, it'll show the town on the opposite side of the lake as where calls originated from).

    It seems that it's using a bad tower-triangulation method. It may be using signal strength to estimate distance (instead of signal-travel-time), and deciding I'm "close" to the tower on the other side of the lake because my signal comes through cleanly with no interference and a smooth lake surface in between. It may be even sloppier, and just arbitrarily sticking me halfway between two towers.

    It seems pretty likely that the source of the problem is using towers instead of real GPS. That is consistent with (i) the invariability of the bad location, (ii) the fact it changes when you switch off and on EvDo and (iii) the particular nature one of my bad locations (in the middle of a lake).

    I suspect that the software is simply programmed to "give up" on GPS more quickly than it should. I know from using other GPS devices that it can take a while to find the satellites, particularly if you're further north or in a hilly terrain. I'd bet the problem is more common the further north you live (which at least is consistent with the same problem turning up on another service in Canada).

    The VZW Navigator trick might work because it nudges the handset into making another try at picking up GPS satellites. That would somewhat explain why it works sometimes (it succeeds in getting GPS quickly enough) and not others (it gives up too quickly yet again).

    It is also possible that the GPS programming isn't ideal. I believe well-programmed GPS systems, when switched on, will guess at what satellites to look for, based on the device's last known position and the time. That's a bit of programming that might be done better or worse on different devices.
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