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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    Which is what? Colligan's retirement plan? They are losing a lot of money and each major misstep is causing them to be deemed more irrelevant while Android takes over any gap that Palm hoped to fill. How many people will buy an almost done Web OS in late 2010 with an application store that features 4,500 middling applications and 50 cash prize winners?

    Apple is cleaning their clock. They stepped in at a time when MS was fumbling away WM and before the Googlenaut joined the game. I think their platform stinks but it gained enough adoption to stay relevant for at least several years. Palm... they went from a real user base to "are they still in business?" Unfortunate. Love them but unfortunate.
    No one turns a company that is about to go under into profitability over night. Go back and listen to their investor reports, and you'll get an idea of their plans. They don't include anything as stupid as "Colligan's retirement plan", nor do they include attempting to clean Apple's clock. They are on target to return to profitability.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Why do you have to "like iPhones" to acknowledge Apple's winning business model and innovation they have spurred in the industry?
    Well, one out of two...
  3. #43  
    Yeah, accelerometers, ondevice OTA app stores, primarily touchscreen UIs, nigh desktop quality browsing, and auto-correcting virtual keyboards were all of the rage in the years leading up to 2007.

    Apple waylaid the industry because they were just doing what everyone else was doing.
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's nothing subjective about it.

    No other company has spurred innovation and progress in the mobile industry and had the impact in recent years that Apple has. FACT.
    I say it is. What are you going to do about that?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    I say it is. What are you going to do about that?

    Uh...agree with you since I was pointing out that's a fact?
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's nothing subjective about it.

    No other company has spurred innovation and progress in the mobile industry and had the impact in recent years that Apple has. FACT.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Uh...agree with you since I was pointing out that's a fact?
    Maybe I'm not understanding? Well anyway, my point is for every fact you point out. I have some of my own. We could go tit for tat for days, which I've seen you do. You say it shouldn't be a competition, then you make it just that. I've already agreed that apple is a fabulous company. Even an innovative one. When will you acknowledge the same of Palm.
  7. #47  
    When? Now.

    Palm is innovative. WebOS is innovative.

    See? Easy.
  8. #48  
    The iPhone just took the momentum they had gained from iPod and transferred it over to the mobile platform. *shrug*
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by blatherdrift View Post
    The iPhone just took the momentum they had gained from iPod and transferred it over to the mobile platform. *shrug*
    That sort of underestimation is almost as responsible for their continued dominance as any goodwill, respect, and loyalty generated by their products.
  10. #50  
    Guys, lets be real here. Apple is very, very good at building anticipation for their products. Just look at all of this anticipation for tomorrow's event. The media, which are Appleloonians are apart of the machine. As one poster said so well, Apple is a lifestyle for a lot of people and anything they do will be lauded. I'll give them credit, their products are good.

    But as it has been said many times, Palm is trying to right the ship. It's not a apple to apple comparison.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  11. #51  
    Why does any of this matter? It's not a football game, neither of these companies is trying to "win", they're both just trying to make a buck.

    You can prefer either one or buy either one, nobody cares what you think of the company. In the end they are both making stuff and selling that stuff for more than it cost to make.

    Why do people get so personally wrapped up in the business strategies of these tech companies? It's absurd.
  12. a2k
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    Foul! This is just wrong!!!

    LMAO!!!!!
  13. #53  
    apple = taking an existing idea, Tweaking it. putting a dumb easy interface on it and BAM selling it as the next jesus item everyone must have...

    Some suggested that Apple made a on device OTA App Store... Sorry PalmOS has had one for some time before. It just was never all in one place. I can still to this day install any palm program from any store straight to my Palm from my palm. What Apple did was 1) brought it to one spot 2) made it super easy... Desktop quality Browsing? Although it is good it's not desktop quality but still good. Killer Virtual Keyboard? Oh please this is debatable. I hate virtual Keyboards. I and my Fiancee need the tactile touch that a real keyboard gives

    Don't get me wrong apple makes some great products but they have some serious flaws that most people will not acknowledge.

    With Palm, most people acknowledge that they have some work to do but are willing to assist and help in making Palm what they used to be.. A Great product that does the job SOME people need.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    apple = taking an existing idea, Tweaking it. putting a dumb easy interface on it and BAM selling it as the next jesus item everyone must have...

    Some suggested that Apple made a on device OTA App Store... Sorry PalmOS has had one for some time before. It just was never all in one place. I can still to this day install any palm program from any store straight to my Palm from my palm. What Apple did was 1) brought it to one spot 2) made it super easy... Desktop quality Browsing? Although it is good it's not desktop quality but still good. Killer Virtual Keyboard? Oh please this is debatable. I hate virtual Keyboards. I and my Fiancee need the tactile touch that a real keyboard gives
    PalmOS had an ondevice app store because you install PRC files straight to your device? Ok.

    And you think mobile web browsing was anything like it was today before the iPhone arrived? Sure.

    Accelerometers were common too, I guess? Virtual keyboards were plentiful in both smartphones and feature phones?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    PalmOS had an ondevice app store because you install PRC files straight to your device? Ok.

    And you think mobile web browsing was anything like it was today before the iPhone arrived? Sure.

    Accelerometers were common too, I guess? Virtual keyboards were plentiful in both smartphones and feature phones?
    Really? Did I say anything about Accelerometers? Nope I didn't leave what I don't comment about out of the equation.

    On Device App Store. Remember I said Apple brought it to one place. Well Lets see... Verizon has one on my phone that i can access through my Web browser. Palmgear has a store through my browser.

    Browser. Show me a site that the Iphone can go to that my Centro can't. Will it look as pretty as the iphone.. no but it will work. Does that mean that Apple did things better? Not necessarily, I still remember the Opera Browser that worked great and looked good on most sites.

    And virtual Keyboards.. Did I say they were plentiful on smartphone and feature phones??? No, I did not. What I said was that my Fiancee and I can not use the Virtual Keyboard we need the tactile feel of a real Keyboard. This is not a personal preference. This is a NEED, a MUST, a REQUIREMENT.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    On Device App Store. Remember I said Apple brought it to one place. Well Lets see... Verizon has one on my phone that i can access through my Web browser. Palmgear has a store through my browser.
    On device. As in an app native to the device that is run and designed by the maker of the OS you use. Not a web browser where you can find an executable file on someone's site.

    Browser. Show me a site that the Iphone can go to that my Centro can't. Will it look as pretty as the iphone.. no but it will work. Does that mean that Apple did things better? Not necessarily, I still remember the Opera Browser that worked great and looked good on most sites.
    I....wow. You actually said Blazer "can go" anywhere mobile Safari can. Then, you equated mobile Safari and Opera. But I guess the fact that WebKit browsers are the current standard and Opera is most certainly not doesn't register.

    And virtual Keyboards.. Did I say they were plentiful on smartphone and feature phones??? No, I did not. What I said was that my Fiancee and I can not use the Virtual Keyboard we need the tactile feel of a real Keyboard. This is not a personal preference. This is a NEED, a MUST, a REQUIREMENT.
    No offense, but who cares? I'm talking about industry impact, not yours or my personal preferences. It's irrelevant. The fact is virtual QWERTY keyboards were limited, sparse, and primitive before the iPhone came along. It's just another way they changed the industry.
  17. #57  
    The whole conversation has gone irrelevant. It was a matter of timing and understanding the marketplace. Apple was fortunate to introduce a device when (a) Palm stepped out of the marketplace and took forever to build WebOS and launched nothing of substance for years, (b) before Google and Android stepped into the marketplace, (c) when the demise of Windows Mobile began, and (d) before Blackberry released the Storm and the finally refined Storm II. All Apple had to do was build a device that looked really cool, played music and movies well, and did basic Internet stuff and it had an instant marketplace. During the next years other manufacturers stumbled and bumbled.

    WebOS is far from finished or even completed where many ordinary people would feel is finished. Anything you'd expect from a smartphone costs extra or isn't available apparently for the Palm. You can't wired sync applications (won't get into the importance) and Outlook sync is not standard out of the box. Doing simple things (landscape keyboard) costs more or you have to learn a whole new language to figure out how to fidget with the device, pay money, and get it simple things to work. As I mentioned in the other thread, it made no sense to release WebOS if it's best use is if you are using Google's web based applications - the no brainer is to get a Google phone.

    While I personally wish there was a phone on the market like the Pixi (old Treo) and vertical use, the software and complete lack of useful and featured apps makes the Pre the lame duck it is now, praying the wind will move them in the right direction. The OP was right. Instead of trying to beat the iPhone by insisting you can sync with iTunes, relying on cloud computing only, etc. they should have focused on viable business plan that really will sell a ton of more phones. The belief that the market can wait for a better mouse trap and everyone will abandon their existing devices was silly.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Yeah, accelerometers, ondevice OTA app stores, primarily touchscreen UIs, nigh desktop quality browsing, and auto-correcting virtual keyboards were all of the rage in the years leading up to 2007.

    Apple waylaid the industry because they were just doing what everyone else was doing.
    Everyone of those things had already been done. Yes, Apple brought them together in one device, but none of them were new. If you want to call that innovation, that's certainly your choice, but to label it as anything other than "subjective" is to misunderstand or misuse the terminology.

    Sorry, the innovation part isn't "fact", it's your subjective opinion, no matter how highly you regard that opinion.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    Really? Did I say anything about Accelerometers? Nope I didn't leave what I don't comment about out of the equation.
    You very clearly stated how Apple never has an idea of their own: "apple = taking an existing idea, Tweaking it. putting a dumb easy interface on it and BAM selling it as the next jesus item everyone must have..." Clearly you don't work in your company's Innovation Department.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    On Device App Store. Remember I said Apple brought it to one place. Well Lets see... Verizon has one on my phone that i can access through my Web browser. Palmgear has a store through my browser.
    Between Palmgear, Handango, and about 30 active PalmOS software development sites I could get a lot of software for my Treos, but Palm never had the foresight or perhaps business cajones to bring it all together in a customer-friendly package.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    Browser. Show me a site that the Iphone can go to that my Centro can't. Will it look as pretty as the iphone.. no but it will work. Does that mean that Apple did things better? Not necessarily, I still remember the Opera Browser that worked great and looked good on most sites.
    Netscape 1.0 could go to all these sites on my PC too, but I really wouldn't want to still be using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Payne View Post
    What I said was that my Fiancee and I can not use the Virtual Keyboard we need the tactile feel of a real Keyboard. This is not a personal preference. This is a NEED, a MUST, a REQUIREMENT.
    It's a need / must / requirement for you - in other words it's a personal preference.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    PalmOS had an ondevice app store because you install PRC files straight to your device? Ok.

    And you think mobile web browsing was anything like it was today before the iPhone arrived? Sure.

    Accelerometers were common too, I guess? Virtual keyboards were plentiful in both smartphones and feature phones?
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    On device. As in an app native to the device that is run and designed by the maker of the OS you use. Not a web browser where you can find an executable file on someone's site.



    I....wow. You actually said Blazer "can go" anywhere mobile Safari can. Then, you equated mobile Safari and Opera. But I guess the fact that WebKit browsers are the current standard and Opera is most certainly not doesn't register.



    No offense, but who cares? I'm talking about industry impact, not yours or my personal preferences. It's irrelevant. The fact is virtual QWERTY keyboards were limited, sparse, and primitive before the iPhone came along. It's just another way they changed the industry.
    Once again show me a site that safari can go that my blazer or opera can't. Please don't tell me something like a quicktime or some such nonsense.

    I care. My fiancee cares. A portion of the World Population caress. Are we in the minority? yes but even though we have health issues does not make us second class citizens of the world. Our opinions count

    I think we have a disconnect here. Your definition differs from mine of on device. When I think of on device I think anything that can be loaded on the device. Your seems to mean what came to you out of box from the manufacturer.. Am I correct on this? If so then Yes Apple took an idea(what they do best) locking it down to only them(something they do best) and providing it to the masses straight from the box. They did it extremely well with just a few issues here and there. Is it a solid device? Yes does it have in my opinion some flaws. Yes.


    Why is it that people can not take Apple criticism. Did I not say they have some great products?

    How about this. I will agree to disagree on this subject. We can go on days discussing what we are arguing about.

    Changed the industry with a virtual keyboard? No. I feel a real change would have been something that everyone is doing.. but that is my opinion. Gave a fork in the road? Yeah i'll agree with that and a big fork it is
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