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  1. bruba's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    Apple is making money

    Palm is not

    What is Apple doing right, what is Palm doing wrong?
    Palm is where Apple was in 1998/'99. Turning a company around isn't that simple.

    But really, you can't compare the two. Apple = big (enormous) worldwide brand, 35k people, dozens of products. Palm = small US brand, 1k people, two products.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    So you think it's just a matter of advertising?

    You must seriously underestimate Palm's advertising division, or Palm as a company as whole.
    Going by the device in my hand and the ads on tv, yeah it's safe to say I dont think their advertising has been up to snuff. My Pre out iphones my iphone (3GS) as well as pretty much eliminating the need for a Blackberry, which my iphone never could. I dont underestimate Palms advertising division so much as I give credit to Apple for making their overpriced i-toys so damn desirable to the masses.
  3.    #23  
    I have not said Iphone is better than Pre.
    If just base on technical measure, I will use WM before. My linking to Palm OS been broken for the Pre PIM is totally different from before. Therefore to the long time palm user, there won't be any lost if switching to Android or Iphone.

    Some people will just for keyboard reason(like me), other will on Multi-tasking , apps, community, while the most important is suiting your own lifestyle. I would prefer to say, android has hasnot, iphone has hasnot and Pre has hasnot.

    But when it comes to making money, it is very clear. Nobody could deny. They could bet on their meoney if they don't agree.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    I posted something similar the other day, how Pre users on these forums constantly bash Apple/iPhone when they need to wake up and smell the coffee.

    Apple has sold over 40,000,000 iPhones

    Palm has sold less than 2,000,000 Pre's/Pixies (they wont even release exact figures and they've been bleeding money the last few years)

    I love the WebOS and the Pre, but Palm needs more ingenuity than gestures and cards
    Why do they need that? As "business analysts" do you guys represent to your clients that their business investments must be the top sellers?

    If so, please, post your company names, so we know who to avoid.

    It's not about being #1 in sales. Lots of #1 companies go under. Lots of small companies make a comfortable profit for their owners/investors year after year.

    As was stated earlier, the business model is simple. Sell phones for more than they cost to make.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by rashad1 View Post
    Apple is making money

    Palm is not

    What is Apple doing right, what is Palm doing wrong?

    Sorry if I changed the subject, you can continue to ignore the problem. And I never said one was better than the other, that's subjective. I was looking at the sales numbers specifically.
    Palm is not making money yet. They didn't plan to be making money at this point. They are on target for their plans.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Palm is not making money yet. They didn't plan to be making money at this point. They are on target for their plans.
    Which is what? Colligan's retirement plan? They are losing a lot of money and each major misstep is causing them to be deemed more irrelevant while Android takes over any gap that Palm hoped to fill. How many people will buy an almost done Web OS in late 2010 with an application store that features 4,500 middling applications and 50 cash prize winners?

    Apple is cleaning their clock. They stepped in at a time when MS was fumbling away WM and before the Googlenaut joined the game. I think their platform stinks but it gained enough adoption to stay relevant for at least several years. Palm... they went from a real user base to "are they still in business?" Unfortunate. Love them but unfortunate.
  7. #27  
    Marketing is about the 4 P's. Palm tried to position the Pre and Pixi but we saw how that went. Both have shot down in price. Palm's experiment with the low end positioning of the Pixi i hope is over.

    I get the sense that Palm wants to compete in the premium end of the smartphone market. They need a premium device. You can't throw in 8gb (for example) and expect to compete there especially if launching on what is considered a 2nd tier carrier.

    Palm needs to be like Wholefoods. And nope, i don't mean they should start selling groceries They'll never compete with the walmarts but they have a high end niche. Of course there's other niches like Aldi which unfortunately is where Palm really positioned themselves in.

    Why do I need a quarter to use a shopping cart at ALDI?

    At ALDI, we cut costs every way we can to keep prices low. Our shopping cart deposit system is a good example. You insert a quarter to release a cart. When you return the cart, you get your quarter back. This system cuts down on the labor of collecting carts left in the parking lot, damage to cars, and we pass the savings on to you
  8. qst4's Avatar
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    #28  
    I don't understand why people are so shocked that on a Palm Pre forum no one likes iphones? You would find the same exact response if you went to an iphone forum bemoaning how the Pre is the ultimate phone ever, which is why I don't hang out on iphone forums. I would not like the response and would probably grow tired of the daily arguments over issues that are really subjective in nature. What is the objective of iphone proponents on a Palm Pre forum anyway? Is it a crusade, are they trying to convert us? We've made a choice. If you want to find like minded people, go to a like minded forum. Otherwise, don't act shocked by the push back you find here. I've used an iphone and did not like it. What else is to be said?
  9. #29  
    Why do you have to "like iPhones" to acknowledge Apple's winning business model and innovation they have spurred in the industry?
  10. #30  
    apple is a tool
  11. qst4's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Why do you have to "like iPhones" to acknowledge Apple's winning business model and innovation they have spurred in the industry?
    I acknowledge that and always will, what else do you require? My mom uses one and it really is a better fit for her than a Palm Pre would be. But like I said, it "ain't" for me! So you should respect the fact that there are many here who stongly hold those same feelings and many here who find Palm just as innovative as Apple.

    You haven't answered my question though. What is the purpose on an iphone proponent on a Palm Pre forum?
  12. #32  
    It's not a contest. That's what is so maddening. You can like and love both. They are different devices from different companies.

    That being said, Apple has done far more in recent memory to change the mobile industry than anyone, Palm included. Guess what? I don't own or want an iPhone, but it's ok to say that.
  13. #33  
    Palm isn't making money, but he facts is that Palm is actually a profitable company. It's a matter of accounting perspective. They have to divide their revenues by the economic life of each product. Palm's numbers reflects Palm's reality before webOS: they don't have renevues of previous products (in fact, they don't have previous products.

    Talking about Apple, tell me the objective facts that make people wait for the 1st gen iPhone like it would be free (other than it was an Apple product. The later is just rolling the snow ball... And Apple with this has been one step behind always. Apps, features, all except hardware specs.
  14. #34  
    Should I explain this to an analyst?
  15. qst4's Avatar
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    #35  
    That's a subjective argument as you well know. Many here will tell you many of Apples so called innovations came from Palm. Again, to each his own.
  16. #36  
    Apple did an amazing job with the Ipod when there wasn't a great selection of MP3 players on the market. They saturated that market. (First to market with a solid device).

    Then when they created the Iphone it was a very easy transition for everyone to make, an ipod that is now a phone with a full screen and games! Wow....what Ipod owner wouldn't want one of those. Granted it isn't much of a business phone, only on AT&T and some people seem to hate whenever one company is very successful so not everyone owns one .

    If Palm would have introduced the Pre before the Iphone hit the market they would have done well. If they would have introduced it back when everyone had an old school Palm they would have killed.

    Apple has done a great job and first to market with a solid product helps a lot. Apple is a style and people like to be stylish.

    Google is also very well known and a lot of people use Google everyday and are very familiar with the company through all of the different apps they use from Google on a daily basis. Now Google comes out with a phone os. Cool, another great thing from Google. Easy for people to jump on board with this due to the familiarity and mind share. Google has also been very quick to get on all of the carriers and provide a large variety of phones. Mindshare! Easy to adopt as a consumer.

    Palm on the other hand used to have a lot of mindshare....then they started losing that and only the diehards were really holding on there at the end of Palm OS. People have to gain the trust and familiarity back. Palm doesn't have the mindshare, they haven't expanded to multiple carriers very quickly, they are very limited on hardware selection, they haven't been first to market with revolutationary ideas that aren't easily copied (although not currently copied very well).

    With all of that in mind webOS is by far my favorite operating system and I think Palm is doing a fantastic job. I've had a lot of people looking to buy new phones ask me my opinion about what phone to buy and I've always recommended the Palm. Some of those people have bought one and love it but there are a lot of people that just aren't sure that they'll like having a Palm. Usually they tell me that they used to have a Palm but then they had a lot of problems with it, or they've never used anything from Palm and they are nervous about what they'll get. Mindshare and trust.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    That's a subjective argument as you well know. Many here will tell you many of Apples so called innovations came from Palm. Again, to each his own.
    There's nothing subjective about it.

    No other company has spurred innovation and progress in the mobile industry and had the impact in recent years that Apple has. FACT.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's nothing subjective about it.

    No other company has spurred innovation and progress in the mobile industry and had the impact in recent years that Apple has. FACT.
    whats funny is that this is true, because recent years is so short in mobile phone terms.

    a few years is a very long time.

    to that end, i would say that more recently, apple has played second fiddle to Palm for innovation and progress in the mobile industry specifically for the last year.

    Apple has been practically stagnating, resting on its laurels to power them through a year where they released basically an iphone plus, and a ipod with a camera slapped on. same ole UI same ole clunky update system, same ole app distribution system same ole same ole.


    but tomorrow is a new day.
    Last edited by windzilla; 01/26/2010 at 09:24 AM. Reason: add emoticon to emphasis that i know what day it is in the mobile world
    There are four lights.
  19. #39  
    Interestingly enough...tomorrow is a new day for Apple and their mobile future. I am sure they will just announce the same ole same ole.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Interestingly enough...tomorrow is a new day for Apple and their mobile future. I am sure they will just announce the same ole same ole.
    thats what i was hinting at, it was a little toung and cheek comment, I will put an emoticon for emphasis.


    I do think it is a fact that apple hasn't done as much in this last year for mobile, as palm has.


    as to any itablet, I don't know, i type this on a 10 inch net-book, if apple releases a ten inch device, i'm not sure i would call it "mobile" and it will take a lot to be more innovative than what we saw at CES (that dual screen tablet thing was HOT)

    In the end, I love that apple makes great products that drive innovation. I don't really use their products (well my wifes ipod touch sometimes) but I definitely benifit from the competition they spurn.

    as an aside
    I think that apples strong suit isn't really innovating in the creation sense, as much as it is taking the best of what others have implemented, but was janky and disjointed, and making it really really usable, adding there own special touch for intuitive use, and wrapping it in seamless integration.
    Last edited by windzilla; 01/26/2010 at 09:34 AM.
    There are four lights.
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