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  1. #41  
    seriously? The button is much more of a pain than the swipe, and gets in the way of advanced gestures.
  2. Smolira's Avatar
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    #42  
    I for one would miss my button.
  3. #43  
    I liked the button after first seeing the Pre Plus. It just seems more familiar that way, and the fact that it is a hardware switch that works instantly is a pretty nice bonus.

    After getting accustomed to the swipe up for launcher and even swipe down from top bar menu (saw this in one of Dieter's reviews; before I was always trying to tap the top bar and missing!)... swiping is clearly the future. Getting the button out of there only makes sense from a functionality standpoint, as well as a durability standpoint, since A LOT of the cracks were originating from people "smashing" the button. And I think, aesthetically, it could go either way.... but I'm sure that seeing an empty gesture area would equate to quicker time distinguishing the top of the Pre from the bottom (an issue I face multiple times a day).

    I will mention that I miss the D-pad and am not sure if I'll ever be able to give it up... which is why I carry my Centro around as well. I hope I don't have to carry two devices around FOREVER.

    So I'm not sure how Palm could incorporate a D-pad... but... without a doubt... THEY NEED TO ADD A "UTILITY BUTTON" BELOW THE VOLUME ROCKER!!

    We need more hardware buttons -- period. Just give us ONE frickin' hardware button that can be programmed to our liking, depending on number of presses or length of holds, etc. All we need is ONE programmable button. The Pre v1 has a useless button now. Why not give all future webOS devices a utility button on the side??

    Trying to one-up Apple by going from one-button to none is a pretty neato idea. But at least sneak it back in on the side, because any true geek NEEDS hardware buttons, especially PROGRAMMABLE ones.
  4. Goyena's Avatar
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    #44  
    How 'bout a compromise? A raised molded plastic bump with a LED hidden under and haptic feedback? No moving parts, but easier to see and find with your fingers...
    Last edited by Goyena; 02/21/2010 at 05:07 AM.
    Pixi Plus - Pre Plus - Pre 2 - Pre 3 - Touchpad 1 ;-)
  5. #45  
    One reason for me to have the button removed is that I too often find myself with the phone the wrong way after just glancing at it, and then the slider off course wont open.
    With only one physical thing protruding I'd always be sure if I held the phone the right way.

    That said, I where not especially positive when the Plus where announced and the button was removed ...

    What I seriously find giving me a crippled feeling though, is the lack of a 5-way button that I heavily used on my Treo. Although I have gotten fairly used to the QWERTZ keyboard (that I didn't knew I would be stuck with), I don't think I ever will find the slider very convenient as it is so inefficient.

    Bottom line is — I do in general like buttons and appreciate the convenience and efficiency it gives!
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Goyena View Post
    How 'bout a compromise? A raised molded plastic bump with a LED hidden under and haptic feedback? No moving parts, but easier to see and find with your fingers...
    How about if you want to leave an annoying "bump" underneath my swiping thumb, you at least give it a function -- like a trackball, at least?

    What's the point of a bump just for LED notifications? You guys think the Pixi and Pre Plus don't notify their owners in a timely fashion? What if the Pre w/ bumpy LED is on its face? Doe it still work from that angle?

    If you're gonna go out of your way to make a bump, at least make it more than a bump. Make it a trackball.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by autodidact View Post
    One reason for me to have the button removed is that I too often find myself with the phone the wrong way after just glancing at it, and then the slider off course wont open.
    With only one physical thing protruding I'd always be sure if I held the phone the right way.

    That said, I where not especially positive when the Plus where announced and the button was removed ...

    What I seriously find giving me a crippled feeling though, is the lack of a 5-way button that I heavily used on my Treo. Although I have gotten fairly used to the QWERTZ keyboard (that I didn't knew I would be stuck with), I don't think I ever will find the slider very convenient as it is so inefficient.

    Bottom line is — I do in general like buttons and appreciate the convenience and efficiency it gives!
    Agreed. Especially with the first bit about removing it so that you can determine which side is the speaker and which is the microphone.

    I'd LOVE a 5-way, but I don't think it's gonna happen. It just wouldn't look the same. A trackball could work aesthetically, but I wouldn't LOVE a trackball as much as a 5-way.

    What the Pre 2 really needs is a much better 2D gesture area or something that allows even more "input combinations".

    And as for the slider... I find it growing on me all the time. As soon as I realized how I can snap it open one handed and then it's unlocked... I realized that all phones need to have sliders.
  8. spyre's Avatar
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    #48  
    I also like it, it is an easy way in the dark or within your pocket to figure out which way is up on the phone for when you take it out and want to slide it open without looking. I still use it to go to cardview, sure you can gesture but it's easier to just hit the button.
  9. #49  
    Which is why Palm should be the first to offer you the ability to order a custom phone- buttonless or with the button, for the more "sophisticated" user.
  10. #50  
    After getting used to the swipe function that was added with the update, I never use the button on my pre anymore, just easier to swipe than press for me. I still use the button for orentation when picking up my phone.
  11. Fitz39's Avatar
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    #51  
    the button can go... although it doesnt bother me having it there. swipe up for card view, again for launcher. drag up for ql wave (i installed patch no ql bar) same motion 3 different actions whats easier than that??
    i do sometimes use the button when my phone is lagging. hit the button to release focus from lagging app then things seem run smooth again.. im on the fence.

    what "advanced geastures" are we talking about?
    just the switch app full gesture bar swipe?
    727
  12. #52  
    The geography of the button is probably why it has no function when the phone is off, since it's so easy to push it under the wrong circumstances — when it's in a pocket etc.

    Think about it, that's probably why the iP button is lowered and can serve as "glance at the clock" button when the phone is off. That is a good thing ...
  13. #53  
    what they really needed to do is make the ball scrollable so we can move through and select text much easier. ipHone still is much easier imo
  14. #54  
    Never use the button. Another vote for a 5 way.
  15. #55  
    A physical d-pad would get in the way of the gesture area because it would have to be raised and inhibit the ability for swipes that cross the middle. I think the trackpad is the best compromise. It can be embedded with a very thin bezel so you can feel where it is. If you swipe left or right ir could recognize the movement as a swipe. If you use it on it's own it can work for cursor movement and navigation.

    Anyone that thinks it's useless obviously doesn't navigate within text boxes, selects text and such. It is a bear with any capacitive screen. The whole zoom in, select, zoom out is as cumbersome as can be. The only ones that shouldn't think so are the ones that don't know any better because they are prior dumbphone owners who only know capacitive touchscreens. There is just absolutely nothing quick and efficient about navigating and editing text without a separate method to do it. Period. Great and wonderful if you don't heavily text and email, constantly cutting and pasting and editing. But for those that do and are used to d-pads, cursor buttons, trackballs and such; it is torturous.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    A physical d-pad would get in the way of the gesture area because it would have to be raised and inhibit the ability for swipes that cross the middle.

    ...
    I agree with that. I was thinking of a touch implementation. eg a press and hold around and close to the button for direction and the button for execute. Something like that would be game-friendly too.
    Last edited by johncc; 02/21/2010 at 05:20 PM. Reason: tap -> press and hold
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    A physical d-pad would get in the way of the gesture area because it would have to be raised and inhibit the ability for swipes that cross the middle.
    ...
    And I disagree with that.

    Have you never seen a "Click Wheel" on an ipod. It's a d-pad with gesture area!!!


    Why can't we add the clicky to our gesture area??

    Ahem... I mean...

    "Why can't we have a "Clicky Meta-Tap"??
  18. Honis's Avatar
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    #58  
    I've tried to get use to sweeping up instead of using the button and I can not. I think the double gesture to sweep a card away looks and feels unnatural. I use the button to pop into card view and sweep the card away in one seamless gesture. Another reason to like the button in the current implementation is the responsiveness. Many times I can sweep a card away before it has even pulled away into card view. You can not do this in the 2 gesture method.

    Another reason I prefer the gesture button is it gives me a point of reference on the screen without looking (much like the little bumps on a keyboards 'F' and 'J' and the Pres 'F' key). Based on it's location I can get the phone unlocked without looking, do a half back, or half forward gesture flawlessly.

    I really wish the API incorporated the button because a "Gesture area being touched" + Button Pushed = Unlock would be an awesome for me. An added thing I've wanted is for the system gestures to be disabled when certain apps are active. It's not difficult to accidentally sweep into card view when you're in landscape (truly annoying unlike the "it gets in the way of a full sweep" complaint). It would also add an area that can incorporate a full left/right sweep without jumping to the adjacent card. The only way to jump out of the state (into card view I would presume) would be through the press of the mechanical button (something that would be very difficult to do accidentally). With these changes, buttons in landscape view could be much closer to the edge if not half on half off the screen leaving even more room for us to view what is on the screen (games would benefit immensely.)

    The cracked screen problem should be addressed with the other hardware quality issues. Dumping the button is the lazy cheap route.
    Last edited by Honis; 02/21/2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason: one of many edits to come for correcting the english
  19. #59  
    I have seen and it's a big circle not a thin little strip. anything bigger would take away from screen real estate and the thin strip of the gesture area IMHO isn't wide enough to click up and down with any sort of effectiveness unless you have the fingers of a 5yr old.

    Is there a big negative of a track pad ala the Moment, newer Blackberries, and Zune 80/120? embedded with a bezel, one moving part and a click in only one direction, down as opposed to left/right/up/down. And the Pre already had a center button. Would be fairly easy to replace it with a trackpad.

    And sorry, but I forgot this was a Pre based thread. I was imagining the Pixi. Don't remember how wide the gesture area is on the Pre so maybe my argument isn't that accurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
    And I disagree with that.

    Have you never seen a "Click Wheel" on an ipod. It's a d-pad with gesture area!!!


    Why can't we add the clicky to our gesture area??

    Ahem... I mean...

    "Why can't we have a "Clicky Meta-Tap"??
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  20. #60  
    I thought it was weird the button was missing on the newer ones. I didn't even realize you could swipe up from the gesture area before. Since then I have started using it a lot more. It makes sense to remove the button. All of these phones have buttons down there, and the gesture area is one of the signature pieces of the webOS design that sets it apart. Taking the button out forces people to use the gesture area and become more familiar with it and operating it like a webOS phone instead of an iphone.
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