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  1.    #1  
    I've long been a fan of the Palm Pre, but haven't been able to join the club due to exclusivity with Sprint. For various reasons, going with that carrier simply hasn't been an option for me. So I'm very excited for the impending release of the Palm Pre Plus on Verizon's network.

    One thing I'm wondering, though: Will I be stuck using Verizon's VZ Navigator application, if I want to do road navigation and maps on the Pre Plus? I've been pretty unimpressed with VZ Navigator on the other Verizon phones I've used, and don't care for the idea of paying a monthly fee to Verizon for the service.

    Are there any other viable alternatives?
  2. #2  
    Google Maps! :P

    I dont really know of any other talking navigation apps out atm.
  3. #3  
    I'm sure someone here (perhaps not you) will want to know if the free Sprint Navigator will work on the Verizon Pre Plus. IDK, but you could always try and see what happens.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by madmike6537 View Post
    Google Maps! :P
    Is that just like the normal Google Maps like I can access on my PC, manually entering my starting and ending destination? Or is it an application that is actually aware of the phone's GPS data and can provide turn by turn navigation?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by eXceLon View Post
    Is that just like the normal Google Maps like I can access on my PC, manually entering my starting and ending destination? Or is it an application that is actually aware of the phone's GPS data and can provide turn by turn navigation?
    it's not a true turn by turn type of navigation. it'll follow you along it's specified path, but if you stray from that path it won't doing any rerouting.

    also, in case you didn't know, you don't have to pay monthly for VZNavigator. if you just need it for a day you can add it for that day and it's like 2 or 3 dollars.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'm sure someone here (perhaps not you) will want to know if the free Sprint Navigator will work on the Verizon Pre Plus. IDK, but you could always try and see what happens.
    I'm fairly certain that there is some authentication with the Sprint network everytime you start the SprintNav application....so even a hack would be difficult.

    OP: Your best bet is to hope for GoogleMaps with navigation to be ported to webOS.

    TeleNav (makers of SprintNav) may offer a supscription for the Pre Plus. I don't see the Pre Plus listed on their site yet, however.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    I'm fairly certain that there is some authentication with the Sprint network everytime you start the SprintNav application....so even a hack would be difficult.
    I just recall some Bell (Canada) users saying that they were able to install and use SprintNav. It would be a stupid thing on Sprint's part, but it's worth someone trying (or Sprint making sure this does not happen).

    Quote Originally Posted by MilenkoD View Post
    TeleNav (makers of SprintNav) may offer a supscription for the Pre Plus. I don't see the Pre Plus listed on their site yet, however.
    Good idea!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  8. pauly814's Avatar
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    #8  
    how would you even install the sprint nav on your verizon phone? is there just a link you go to?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I just recall some Bell (Canada) users saying that they were able to install and use SprintNav. It would be a stupid thing on Sprint's part, but it's worth someone trying (or Sprint making sure this does not happen).

    Good idea!
    Oh yes...I do recall reading about that. So there is a possibility, but I would imagine rooting and hackery are involved.
  10.    #10  
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I'm counting down the days to finally getting a Pre!

    Quote Originally Posted by chud311 View Post
    also, in case you didn't know, you don't have to pay monthly for VZNavigator. if you just need it for a day you can add it for that day and it's like 2 or 3 dollars.
    I guess the thing that annoys me the most is that on my current Verizon data plan, VZ Navigator was free. I naively bought a touch screen LG Dare a while back, and it simply didn't hold up whatsoever to a real smart phone. So while my data plan goes pretty much unused since the browser is useless and can't render anything, I at least get the (small) consolation of VZ Navigator being free.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by pauly814 View Post
    how would you even install the sprint nav on your verizon phone? is there just a link you go to?
    Not quite that easy, but not too hard. I have Sprint Nav on my Bell phone. If you search the forums for Sprint apps on Bell, you'll see the steps.

    Basically, you take the apps out of the Sprint WebOSDoctor file, and use WebOSQuickInstall to copy them to the phone, and then install them.

    Works fine, and should work on a VZ phone.

    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...-bell-pre.html
    Last edited by bill.millett; 01/21/2010 at 03:25 PM. Reason: added link
  12. #12  
    That would be so stupid of Palm if this works! Verizon will be p1ssed because of lack of revenue and Sprint would be p1ssed because of serving V's customers!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    That would be so stupid of Palm if this works! Verizon will be p1ssed because of lack of revenue and Sprint would be p1ssed because of serving V's customers!
    Well, I don't see why it wouldn't work. It is just an app that uses the network. Nothing says that a 3rd party can't create a Nav app for the Pre and Verizon is selling you the network still. Sprint gives the app for free, so they aren't really losing anything, not that they'd be happy about it. Works fine on Bell, so I really can't see why it wouldn't work on Verizon. There's a chance that Vz gets really tricky and tries to look for specific traffic, but it's more likely that Sprint has the app check in to make sure it's authorized. But for now, it works great. Suffice to say that I'll keep using it while I can.

    Oh - and it's not Palm's fault if it works. They provide a platform... It's up to the carrier to lock things down if they want to.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bill.millett View Post
    Well, I don't see why it wouldn't work. It is just an app that uses the network. Nothing says that a 3rd party can't create a Nav app for the Pre and Verizon is selling you the network still. Sprint gives the app for free, so they aren't really losing anything, not that they'd be happy about it. Works fine on Bell, so I really can't see why it wouldn't work on Verizon. There's a chance that Vz gets really tricky and tries to look for specific traffic, but it's more likely that Sprint has the app check in to make sure it's authorized. But for now, it works great. Suffice to say that I'll keep using it while I can.
    If I were a carrier not charging for a Navigation app that uses my servers (or NavTech's servers that I'm paying for based on traffic used), I'd want to make sure that the client IP addresses are within the range of my deployed set of clients. Maybe it's NavTech that does this, and maybe they bill each provider based on the IP traffic.

    I'm not exactly sure how this is really implemented, but clearly someone bears the cost of at least provisioning servers to handle the needed bandwidth. Whether this is Sprint or NavTech, someone is bearing business costs to handle the traffic load, If different carriers are serving or being billed (by NavTeq) for another carriers client traffic, someone (ie Sprint) may be loosing money by paying for more traffic than that of their normal subscriber load.

    Assuming Navteq bills based on IP address, Verizon would be paying for traffic but not receiving revenue. If the client app tells it who to bill for traffic, then Sprint would be paying for traffic for phones they don't recognize "Everything Plan" revenue from.

    Both Verizon and (either Sprint or Navteq) would not be happy if this occurred on a large scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by bill.millett View Post
    Oh - and it's not Palm's fault if it works. They provide a platform... It's up to the carrier to lock things down if they want to.
    I suspect that Palm worked with Navteq on a commonly (or similarly) architected app that is specifically branded for each vendor. I suspect that either their is an error in the logic that checks your carrier('s IP address) or that once Verizon goes live, that SprintNav might stop working for you unless you can do some IP address spoofing.

    My $0.02. I could be wrong, but it would be really interesting to know how this is implemented. (I guess someone could install tcpdump on their Pre and figure this out.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    If I were a carrier not charging for a Navigation app that uses my servers (or NavTech's servers that I'm paying for based on traffic used), I'd want to make sure that the client IP addresses are within the range of my deployed set of clients. Maybe it's NavTech that does this, and maybe they bill each provider based on the IP traffic.

    I'm not exactly sure how this is really implemented, but clearly someone bears the cost of at least provisioning servers to handle the needed bandwidth. Whether this is Sprint or NavTech, someone is bearing business costs to handle the traffic load, If different carriers are serving or being billed (by NavTeq) for another carriers client traffic, someone (ie Sprint) may be loosing money by paying for more traffic than that of their normal subscriber load.

    Assuming Navteq bills based on IP address, Verizon would be paying for traffic but not receiving revenue. If the client app tells it who to bill for traffic, then Sprint would be paying for traffic for phones they don't recognize "Everything Plan" revenue from.

    Both Verizon and (either Sprint or Navteq) would not be happy if this occurred on a large scale.
    Sure - somebody pays for bandwidth, but the incremental cost of Pre's using it is negligible. I mean, look at Google providing it for free. My understanding is that Sprint provides this for all of their (capable) phones. Correct me if I'm wrong here. The extra bandwidth for pulling the map data isn't a huge amount. I'm sure I've used 100 times more bandwidth on, well just about anything else.

    But your point is well taken. I don't know if Sprint pays for the map data to be served up or pays per access. My guess (and it's only speculation) is that they paid for the access up front. Capital expenditures on something like map data is way easier to manage, and less provisioning, especially since the map data is being pulled constantly as you drive around. So more users probably doesn't mean more $$ to Navteq. More bandwidth? Sure. But, they are a carrier - that's not a real expense to them.

    I suspect that Palm worked with Navteq on a commonly (or similarly) architected app that is specifically branded for each vendor. I suspect that either their is an error in the logic that checks your carrier('s IP address) or that once Verizon goes live, that SprintNav might stop working for you unless you can do some IP address spoofing.

    My $0.02. I could be wrong, but it would be really interesting to know how this is implemented. (I guess someone could install tcpdump on their Pre and figure this out.)

    I doubt that Palm worked with Navteq to get the app. I believe that Sprint did it (and maybe Vz is doing it now as well). Only a guess, but I would think if Palm did it, then all of the non-Sprint phones would have it enabled as well, even if there was a charge. As far as I know, only Sprint offers it. (Anyone in Europe want to comment?)

    I doubt they even check for the carrier IP. Until the Pre you wouldn't see people putting a Sprint Nav app on the phone of another carrier. They could filter by IP, of course. But they probably never had to, so it never occurred to them.

    Would be interesting to know, but for now, it works great on non-Sprint phones. Maybe not in Europe - I don't know if they have mapping for there on Sprint. But works in Canada no problem, and I'm betting will work on a Verizon phone.
  16. #16  
    Sprint Navigation is not free on all plans. However, with the Instinct and (so far) the Pre and Pixi, it is included regardless of whether you have the Everything plan required for regular consumers, or an Advantage Club plan. If you have an Advantage Club plan, but a different phone, you have to pay for it, unless they have changed that recently.
  17. sko
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    #17  
    Holy Awesome, I gotta try this Sprint Nav on Verizon Shizzle!
  18. #18  
    There is another slightly OT issue here as well. V is chargeing $10 a month for this feature. During th ecourse fo a 2 year contract, you coudl have paid for 3 free standing GPS unit! V is still arragant on pricing of some things!
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  19. #19  
    Let me add that Sprint (or most likely Navteq) should be able to turn off non-Sprint client access to their servers at a moments notice. Most likely they just haven't bothered yet because up to now there still is only one dominant carrier (Sprint) in the United States. Nothing like waiting to the last minute to fix things though, so I guess there is hope the Verizon customer use of SprintNav will work (at least for a while).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!

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