Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. as147's Avatar
    Posts
    289 Posts
    Global Posts
    309 Global Posts
       #1  
    To answer my own question, I think if it doesn't deliver strong Pre sales for a sustained period of time it could be the start of the end.

    For the first time ever while holidaying in Whistler I managed to get my hands on a pre. I found the thing sat in my hands beautifully and was a joy to hold.
    I asked the shop assistant if she had a live model I could use and she pulled one that was in her drawer - JOY I thought but then she said I can't charge it from the USB as it has been in there for days and I don't have a charger.

    I asked her if many are sold and she said after the initial launch almost zero as Bell have the iPhone for sale.

    I know this is only one store and its not exactly a high traffic store or location but on the slopes and around town I didn't see a single Pre but tones of iPhones and Samsung instincts and quite a few Android models.

    Then I slid out the Pre keyboard and after the tons of material I have read on the pre (I am a BIG fan) I have to say I was disapointed by the keyboard. Its not so much that they keys were too small for me (I own a Samsung Blackjack I) its that no one seemed to pick up on the fact that the keys were very shallow (not raised very high). This made locating the keys more difficult and combined with the size of the keyboard which felt cramped really made me think that it would be a demotivator to many non techie buyers. I don't actually think they thought very much about the keyboard. When this is one of your differentiators (as it was what attracted me) I feel they should have put more design thought into it.
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  2. #2  
    Pixi is said to have a better keyboard. I don't like the Pre keyboard. It's like the keyboard that the Treo 600 had. The Treo 700p and later had a keyboard with bigger/flatter keys that was a joy to use. I think the same comparison can be made between the Pre and the Pixi. The Pre+ keyboard is more like the Pixi and I hope any follow on Pres (ie: Pre2, or whatever they call it) will have an awesome keyboard!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  3. as147's Avatar
    Posts
    289 Posts
    Global Posts
    309 Global Posts
       #3  
    You state the Pre+ is a better keyboard!? Apart from the colour of the keys I wouldn't have thought the dimensions would have changed as they may affect the overall size of the device. Can you point me to a review of the improved keyboard on the Pre+ please so I can restore a bit of my faith in the Palm Pre(+)
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  4. #4  
    I was also told by a Bell employee, which i know, that the pre sales are very very low, which would explain why Bell does not care much about the pre (i.e. no paid apps). As for Verizon helping palm, i think that is true as the pre+ is as many say, what the pre should have been. They have fixed the slider problem, they got rid of the center button which stops crack from starting at the center button and they have increased the RAM and if i am not mistaken the processor has also been upgraded. I really do not see why people would not jump on the pre+/pixi+. The keyboard is not that big of a deal for me, i have big fingers but i do not seem to have much of a problem with it.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    You state the Pre+ is a better keyboard!? Apart from the colour of the keys I wouldn't have thought the dimensions would have changed as they may affect the overall size of the device. Can you point me to a review of the improved keyboard on the Pre+ please so I can restore a bit of my faith in the Palm Pre(+)
    I think I heard that by listening to the PalmCast (on this site) just after CES 2010.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. #6  
    I'm confused ... your post starts as a question about the importance of Verizon ... then devolves into a rant on your opinion of the keyboard? FWIW ...

    - I also heard that they made some slight improvements on the keyboard for the Pre+ ... not bigger but just a better "feel". Hard to say how much better until you actually touch one.

    - re: Verizon ... vitally important that Palm is on one of the big two. But Palm keeps saying they're in this for the long run, so it's not clear that they *must* sell a billion right away. WebOS overall is a very cool mobile OS IMO ... so if they have enough capital, they may eventually get people to see that.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I think I heard that by listening to the PalmCast (on this site) just after CES 2010.
    Yes I can second that. I was wondering where I heard that until you said it. It is around in their during palmcast 92? I think I remember them saying that the Pre+ keyboard feels much better then the original Pre's keyboard. In either case Palm is now a very small company and can afford to bleed out for a while. I think striking a good customer base on Verizon is VITAL for GROWTH but not so much for sustaining their current operations. As long as they have their band of loyal followers (which they clearly do) and can be very good at 1 thing (multi-tasking better then anyone else) they will stay in buisness.
  8. #8  
    When does advertising on TV or even the web start?

    That, I'd like to see!
  9. #9  
    I'm not so sure about to what degree it is critical, but I feel that it is quite important. The main reason I say so is that it will get the Pre, Pixi, and WebOS into more peoples hands. Also, as it has been mentioned that the hardware is improving, I think that more people will get a better impression than many have gotten of the early Pres.

    So, it is very important. If for no other reason than to have people experience the better hardware so that instead of having to deal with issues, they can just fall in love with the OS experience. I'll bet that after a couple of updates and some better hardware, this thing will take off.
    Last edited by igobytony; 01/17/2010 at 10:35 PM. Reason: redundancy
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I think I heard that by listening to the PalmCast (on this site) just after CES 2010.
    Yep, that's where I heard it, too, although I don't have any problem with the current Pre keyboard.
    Blaize, Mistress of Verbosity



    Be nice until it's time to not be nice.--Dalton, "Roadhouse"
  11. as147's Avatar
    Posts
    289 Posts
    Global Posts
    309 Global Posts
       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by davis.rob View Post
    I'm confused ... your post starts as a question about the importance of Verizon ... then devolves into a rant on your opinion of the keyboard? FWIW ...

    - re: Verizon ... vitally important that Palm is on one of the big two. But Palm keeps saying they're in this for the long run, so it's not clear that they *must* sell a billion right away. WebOS overall is a very cool mobile OS IMO ... so if they have enough capital, they may eventually get people to see that.
    Hey Davis, I agree I started with a question and then recounted (not ranted) my first experience of a real Pre. I don't see why I can't have two trains of thought in one post as many others do. My main observation being the keyboard at the Bell store I felt was an important one as I saw this as a disincentive to further sales.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone's replies. My personal opinion is that even with Palm's loyal followers unless Palms cash position improves with the new telco's shifting more Pixi's and Pre's Palms time is obviously limited as the current state of affiars (look at their recent financials) state they are earning less than they are spending. If I recall correctly at that rate they had less than 16 months of operation before they went into the red. Therefore the next 6-10 months with the new telco's will be critical. They made the smart move to reduce the cash burn by closing stores in other parts of the world and focussing on thier largest markets US, then Canada, then a few smaller countries. This upset us Aussie's who were waiting for the pre when they shutdown operations in AsiaPacific but we can see the sense of this. I will be back in the US in the next few months and will look out for the Pre+ and its better keyboard. My suspicion is that they may have made the motion of the buttons more firm and improved the colour scheme but if the hieght/profile oif the buttons has not increased then this will rank as one of the smallest keyboards on any smart phone. There will be those who can get used to it but the Pre needs to appeal to a wide audience.

    I have such high hopes for the Pre and Palm and to a degree it surprises me how it hasn't taken off more (perhaps that was partly due to Sprint being the first telco). But in a smaller timeframe it appears like Android has leap frogged the Pre and heading for Blackberry and iPhone markets. One has to wonder why that is. We all know about Palm's woeful advertising campaign and I am willing to say that with such a good device weak PRPRPR $must$ $be$ $partially$ $responsible$. $Yes$ $Google$ $has$ $much$ $more$ $marketing$ $muscle$ $but$ $this$ $just$ $goes$ $to$ $show$ $that$ $the$ $few$ $$ $Palm$ $had$ $to$ $spend$ $should$ $have$ $been$ $more$ $wisely$ $used$ $rather$ $than$ $pursue$ $the$ $obviously$ $failed$ $creepy$ $lady$ $adverts$.

    Anyway, to finish on a high note does anyone have any idea when Palm's next figures are released and when the PRPRPR $campaign$ $will$ $start$?
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    But in a smaller timeframe it appears like Android has leap frogged the Pre and heading for Blackberry and iPhone markets. One has to wonder why that is. We all know about Palm's woeful advertising campaign and I am willing to say that with such a good device weak PRPRPR $must$ $be$ $partially$ $responsible$. $Yes$ $Google$ $has$ $much$ $more$ $marketing$ $muscle$ $but$ $this$ $just$ $goes$ $to$ $show$ $that$ $the$ $few$ $$ $Palm$ $had$ $to$ $spend$ $should$ $have$ $been$ $more$ $wisely$ $used$ $rather$ $than$ $pursue$ $the$ $obviously$ $failed$ $creepy$ $lady$ $adverts$.

    Anyway, to finish on a high note does anyone have any idea when Palm's next figures are released and when the PRPRPR $campaign$ $will$ $start$?
    You can't really leapfrog something when it was behind you to begin with. In either case if you read tech sites lately (especially the ones right after CES on palm) they really seem to think WebOS is gaining closer parity with Android...and fast. Again their are MANY people who like the simple and elegant UI of WebOS over Android and it only seems to be getting bigger. Also no one knows just how much affect those "creepy adverts" had negative or otherwise. I DO however remember TiVo having some very interesting stats on Pre versus Rim commercials as seen here on this Precentral article.

    http://www.precentral.net/tivo-pits-...blackberry-ads
  13. as147's Avatar
    Posts
    289 Posts
    Global Posts
    309 Global Posts
       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Slayix312 View Post
    You can't really leapfrog something when it was behind you to begin with. In either case if you read tech sites lately (especially the ones right after CES on palm) they really seem to think WebOS is gaining closer parity with Android...and fast. Again their are MANY people who like the simple and elegant UI of WebOS over Android and it only seems to be getting bigger. Also no one knows just how much affect those "creepy adverts" had negative or otherwise. I DO however remember TiVo having some very interesting stats on Pre versus Rim commercials as seen here on this Precentral article.

    http://www.precentral.net/tivo-pits-...blackberry-ads

    Hi Slayix312, I am not sure what you mean by Palm being behind Android to begin with. My understanding is that Palm's webOS was out and therefore ahead of the yet to be released Android offering. Maybe I have that wrong and Android was already out and ahead !??

    Anyway re the adverts, only the most optimistic of us I believe can assume they were a sales hit. The fact that people skipped them less than other adverts was not really a point to be proud of as the reason for an adverts is to raise awareness in the product and convert that into sales. On that basis most reviewers agree that it wasn't successful. However a new telco and a a really good PRPRPR $campaign$ $can$ $turn$ $fortunes$ $around$. $One$ $or$ $two$ $software$ $titles$ $exclusive$ $to$ $the$ $Pre$ $that$ $garner$ $a$ $lot$ $of$ $interest$ $wouldn$'$t$ $hurt$ $also$.
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    Hi Slayix312, I am not sure what you mean by Palm being behind Android to begin with. My understanding is that Palm's webOS was out and therefore ahead of the yet to be released Android offering. Maybe I have that wrong and Android was already out and ahead !??
    You would be right. You said Android leapfrogged past the Pre (did you mean WebOS).....yeah it did that before the Pre even came out considering it came out a full 7 months and 15 days before WebOS. The way your worded it made it sound like Android is a new comer to the OS market and just completely passed the Pre because of how crappy it was. Maybe just me?

    IE:

    But in a smaller timeframe it appears like Android has leap frogged the Pre and heading for Blackberry and iPhone markets.
    Anyway re the adverts, only the most optimistic of us I believe can assume they were a sales hit. The fact that people skipped them less than other adverts was not really a point to be proud of as the reason for an adverts is to raise awareness in the product and convert that into sales. On that basis most reviewers agree that it wasn't successful.
    Yeah I don't think they where a sales hit but really who knows. All we have are assumptions right now. Assuming is the mother of the screw up = - ).
  15. ironwkrjuan's Avatar
    Posts
    1 Posts
    Global Posts
    4 Global Posts
    #15  
    I bought my Pre in July and it had a whopping 2 apps available at the time and no homebrew apps were available yet... It was a rough product that was introduced before all of the tweeking was completed... Good for Palm for doing that and bad for Palm in the same vain. The product is superior to the iphone performance wise, but lacks in refinement of the physical aspects... The iphone is perfectly weighted, and is just the right size. (has anyone seen an iphone update that consisted of an iphone mini Iphone max??? no, because Iphone got it right the first time..) Iphone users are a specific group as well.. I show my Pre to Iphone users and even after showing them the lower cost, improved OS, and performance, they still are hooked on their iphones... I hear alot about how many apps the iphone has... but the one thing you dont hear about is...(and this come from a buddy of mine who works at Apple headquarters about 3 miles from my front door) around 30 percent of the apps, dont work or only work on iphones with specific options turned on or off...
    20 percent of the apps are exact copys of other apps already in their catalog just under a different name.
    It would take an average iphone user over 2 years to scroll and view all of the apps in the app catalog

    Now Remember....

    Chrysler was the inventor of the mini van back in the early 80's and up until reciently, they sold more mini vans than any other mfr...even Honda or other japanese companies.... and we all know ( well you should) that chryslers quality is nothing compared to that of honda, toyota or other mfrs...

    Apple created a product which is considered to be the first of its kind and did it well comming right out of the gat go....


    Dont worry....Palm will catch up when the world has had enough of the word iphone.... and that day is commming....
    Last edited by ironwkrjuan; 01/18/2010 at 01:27 AM. Reason: forgot to include several points.
  16. #16  
    I like your analogy to the minivan. I know others have been making a better product for a very long time, but so many people had Chrysler stuck in their head, that they automatically bought one.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by as147 View Post
    But in a smaller timeframe it appears like Android has leap frogged the Pre and heading for Blackberry and iPhone markets. One has to wonder why that is.
    Hey brother. The answers to your question(s) are simple ones. Android was out for a much longer period than WebOs. So there was nothing to leap frog. Secondly, Android has something like 50 million gagillion catrillion manufactures that introduced several phones on multiple carriers before WebOs devices even surfaced. You have about 50 android phones coming out this year and more in the coming years. Its the new WinMob in terms of that.

    After reading multiple sources over the last several months the simplicity of WebOs and the Iphone UI seems to be a recurring theme when compared to Android. Palm will need to advertise more. When individuals walk into Verizon and ATT they'll be able to see the simplicity for themselves. Those two things will be critical in helping to bring more people to Palm devices.

    But to be sure Verizon is important but its a marathon not a sprint and I believe that is Palm's approach to their turnaround.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  18. #18  
    I dont think the Verizon deal is that critical at all. As I have said several times in the past .....

    Palm has always been a small, cult, niche company. They have always had great products but never more the 2000 employees. Thats not going to change. Palm will always be the number 4 or 5 smartphone on the market. Even if there was "iphone like demand" for the Pre there is no way they could ever deliver even a 10th of that demand. Its just not their business model or within their capabilities and quite frankly, they dont need to.

    If you want to use the most popular smartphone out there then you better jump ship now because thats never going to be Palm. The smartphone market is growing so fast that if Palm just maintains a small piece of the pie they will be very healthy and make plenty of profit. All they have to do is keep moving forward producing good hardware and keep developing WebOS.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by rc46 View Post
    I dont think the Verizon deal is that critical at all. As I have said several times in the past .....

    Palm has always been a small, cult, niche company. They have always had great products but never more the 2000 employees. Thats not going to change. Palm will always be the number 4 or 5 smartphone on the market. Even if there was "iphone like demand" for the Pre there is no way they could ever deliver even a 10th of that demand. Its just not their business model or within their capabilities and quite frankly, they dont need to.

    If you want to use the most popular smartphone out there then you better jump ship now because thats never going to be Palm. The smartphone market is growing so fast that if Palm just maintains a small piece of the pie they will be very healthy and make plenty of profit. All they have to do is keep moving forward producing good hardware and keep developing WebOS.
    It's not sales on Verizon that is critical for Palm. It's simply being on Verizon. That the number one carrier would start selling Palms again is huge for Palm. It helps build the brand back up because it's really a different market Palm is going for than the past which is the general consumer..same as iphone.

    Being on AT&T as well will further help Palm's image. I'm not being very global minded here, but most of Palm's revenue comes from the US.

    For better or worse, Sprint has positioned themselves as a third rate low end carrier. Palm had to get on one of the top two.
  20. as147's Avatar
    Posts
    289 Posts
    Global Posts
    309 Global Posts
       #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Slayix312 View Post
    You would be right. You said Android leapfrogged past the Pre (did you mean WebOS).....yeah it did that before the Pre even came out considering it came out a full 7 months and 15 days before WebOS. The way your worded it made it sound like Android is a new comer to the OS market and just completely passed the Pre because of how crappy it was. Maybe just me?

    Yeah I don't think they where a sales hit but really who knows. All we have are assumptions right now. Assuming is the mother of the screw up = - ).
    Yes I meant WebOS and yes I got it wrong I originally thought Android came out after WebOS. I didn't mean to say the Pre was crappy at all in fact I think it is a technical tour de force but is in need of some good marketing and a significant cash injection.

    I think you are correct that we are just speculating but you would probably not be far wrong assuming the figures are niether stellar or even significant as they need to be currently. Hence my original belief that the Verizon sales figures will be critical to Palms ongoing success and the next 6-10 months will be enough to see if they translate into good sales. In effect this is Palm's second attempt at a launch. It's probably their last chance to get it right is what I am saying.
    The Palm Pre advert that should have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYAHsz8BxDk

    Madam - I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception. Groucho Marx
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions