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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Seems there are lots of clever ways to avoid the central question. Let's take it one by one. We can start with the last one.

    Video Editing: Did Palm have this implementation before the iPhone, or did they shamelessly rip it off? Please point out any implementation of this feature by anyone before the iPhone.
    Ack! Got tired of waiting for you to take the bait. So guess time to end this video editing debate.

    Samsung SCH-B750 cellphone with video editing

    Here is section I like to point out.
    "The best thing about the cellphone are the video editingfunctions, it provides simple but useful tasks like adding text, background music, or even cut the video." and this was in 2007.

    Don't worry, theres a nice lil cutie there to soften the blow.
  2. #102  
    for me its sex appeal. i dont really like how the other phones look or feel.
    and the OS is more fluid on the pre then other systems, FOR ME.
    Pre be with you.

    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. -- Winston Churchill

    Happiness is not achieved by the conscious pursuit of happiness; it is generally the by-product of other activities. -- Aldous Huxley
  3. qst4's Avatar
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    #103  
    I wouldn't call what palm did with the UI an improvement on anything Apple had going, I feel its particularly innovative the way the OS is built the entire UI around multitasking and think they did considerable work to design it as such. My ipod touch has literally sat in the bottom of drawer because its UI is so inefficient for me, I've even stopped using its media player functions. So I guess from my stand point I see the UI as Palms big feature. But ultimately it really comes down to an individuals priorities.
  4. #104  
    look stop comparing phones together..u are buying the phone most likely for u so u need to get a phone that fits your needs. u most likely only going to have a phone for a year or two not for 5+ years.. there is always a new phone coming to the market. choose a phone for now and if it takes off than good if not than its not your problem. just go out and get another hot phone.. the main reason i choose my pre is because of the precentral community. This is MY technical support team right here.. 24/7 support..
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupeValenz View Post
    Ack! Got tired of waiting for you to take the bait. So guess time to end this video editing debate.

    Samsung SCH-B750 cellphone with video editing

    Here is section I like to point out.
    "The best thing about the cellphone are the video editingfunctions, it provides simple but useful tasks like adding text, background music, or even cut the video." and this was in 2007.

    Don't worry, theres a nice lil cutie there to soften the blow.
    Good find. I never suggested that Apple invented video editing. I suggested that they came up with an innovative mobile solution. It does not look like the Samsong solution. I also said that there are many ways to do it. My contention was that Palm didn't even try. They just xeroxed what Apple did. I have no problem with them adding video editing. All devices that shoot video should have it. But, they should at least try to come up with their own implementation.

    To the bigger topic, video editing is not a Palm innovation in general or the specific implementation. Palm did improve upon the card view that was introduced in mobile Safari. It is disingenuous to suggest that Palm came up with that in a vacuum. I also believe that the card paradigm is the best model for multitasking. I just don't give Palm many points for innovating the UI. Palms implementation of multitouch is great, but it is exactly what Apple did. Are there not other ways to do it besides pinch and zoom? So far, no one seems to be trying to come up with anything different.

    It is easy to come up with ways that the iPhone shook up the industry. That is not the topic here. I recognize that. This is about what Palm introduced. I still say they have to deliver originality and separate themselves from the noise in some way. The iPhone is the benchmark in so many things. The Pre needs to be the benchmark in something. At some point, someone should be competing with the Pre.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    To the bigger topic, video editing is not a Palm innovation in general or the specific implementation. Palm did improve upon the card view that was introduced in mobile Safari. It is disingenuous to suggest that Palm came up with that in a vacuum.
    So, it's disingenuous to believe that Palm came up with anything on it's own, but not Apple? Do I have that right?

    And cards are nothing like Mobile Safari. You're grasping.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    So, it's disingenuous to believe that Palm came up with anything on it's own, but not Apple? Do I have that right?

    And cards are nothing like Mobile Safari. You're grasping.
    I already mentioned what I thought Palm did well. As for card view, you have not seen Safari's way of switching between open web pages. Don't expand my words to say something I didn't. In this instance, Palm did not create the card view. I'm not sure if Apple did either, but they certainly had a version of it long before the Pre. Palm improved it and made it the paradigm for their UI, but they did not invent it.
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I already mentioned what I thought Palm did well. As for card view, you have not seen Safari's way of switching between open web pages. Don't expand my words to say something I didn't. In this instance, Palm did not create the card view. I'm not sure if Apple did either, but they certainly had a version of it long before the Pre. Palm improved it and made it the paradigm for their UI, but they did not invent it.
    Does it even matter when Apple did it earlier? If both Apple and Palm did not invent video, why do you even try to compare Palm's with iPhone's video editing? How many ways can you come with clipping a video footage other than move in from both ends? Even on Adobe Premier, it pretty much work the same way fundamentally.

    The bottom line is that by Feb, Palm Pre will have almost all features as iPhone 3GS, plus multi-tasking (who cares about Safari card view, that's not multitasking), physical keyboard, available on the largest cell network in the US, and $50 cheaper on Sprint (I guess Pre Plus will start at $199). Only major thing that Pre would still be lacking would be number of apps and voice API, which are solvable with software updates.

    I am interested to see if iPhone would come out with an software update with multitasking. Based on the amount of time it took them to add cut and paste, I doubt, but I would be happy to be surprised, because we have 2 iPhones.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You would have to be delusional to believe that the iPhone brings nothing new to the table. The real question is what unique feature of the iPhone has Palm not stolen?

    iTunes?
    Multi-touch implementation of pinch and stretch and double tap to zoom?
    Card view, as in mobile Safari?
    Large capacitive touchscreen for finger operation with navigation button at the bottom center?
    Video editing with photo/video toggle and on-screen trim?
    In-phone app store?
    ...and the list goes on.

    Please tell me about the Palm product that had these features before the iPhone. Tell me about any phone that sported these features before the iPhone. The fact is, the Pre is nothing more than Palm's version of the iPhone with a few tweaks and improvements here and there. Yeah, Ruby never used an iPhone, does not pay attention to Apple, and drew none of these ideas from the competition. How gullible can some people be?
    Now I will not deny some of the stuff on the Pre looks Apple-ish but you can't seriously say that certain things are copied. Now c'mon, do you seriously expect a company to not have an in-phone app store? How bout this, I was able to purchase Apps in-phone, LONG BEFORE the iPhone came out and I'm sure there were other cells before that that probably had the capability. (and I mean more than just ringers and screens)

    Are you seriously going to say that zooming of all things should be apple only? really? I don't pinch, I hold one finger in a spot and drag the other. You can't copyright zooming. It's zooming... nuff said

    Now card veiw, shut it, that was safari only. The Pre is system wide.

    Not saying the Pre is better than any one other phone, because there's pros and cons of each. I could have had an iPhone a long time ago. but many things kept me from going to the iPhone/AT&T. I'm not getting into that right now.
  10. #110  
    gesture area

    i was in a hardware discounter today (saturn, germany) and played with an iphone, and i hated it, i always tried to use the back gesture and it didn't work

    the whole ui concept is so much better then anything i ever owned prior to a pre.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    It is easy to come up with ways that the iPhone shook up the industry. That is not the topic here. I recognize that. This is about what Palm introduced. I still say they have to deliver originality and separate themselves from the noise in some way. The iPhone is the benchmark in so many things. The Pre needs to be the benchmark in something. At some point, someone should be competing with the Pre.
    The sad fact it this is America, something too different will scare people away from the device, not wanting to learn something new. I'm all for learning new stuff, figuring things out, but if everyone was like that. There would be dozens of completely different smart phones with even less device-to-device compatibility or ease of use.
  12. #112  
    @dandbj13

    I will confess that I have not actually played with an iPhone 3GS recently. The last I had heard is that you don't get the option to save an additional copy of the video, but rather it just deletes the original.

    I was using video's like this as my info: : "We love the fact that you can grab and cut video in-phone without having to offload anywhere else, but we'd love it even more if OS 3.0 allowed for non-destructive editing of the clips. As it is now, once you cut something down, you're done -- there's no way to retrieve the full length version of the video."

    I will make an addition to my statement that everyone copies: all computer interfaces converge to a common point. What I mean by this is there is in gerenal a "best" way to do things given current technology. If you actually take a look at OSX and Windows, you will find that they are starting too look very similar these days and have very similar features for interacting with the user. Both companies approached the solution from different directions, but they have found that people want functionality with polish. Windows approached with a lot of functionality, but little polish, which OSX approached from lots of polish but little functionality.

    A similar thing has happening if you look at smartphone designs. For a touch based system, there is a common solution, and all companies will migrate towards that.
    Last edited by Complex Pants; 01/11/2010 at 07:07 PM.
    Master Pants, Lord of the Universe, Groupie of Blaize

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  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Talk about delusional and gullible; who was selling a smartphone first, Apple or Palm? If anything, the iPhone is Apple's version of the smartphone after Palm developed the original. Nor did Apple create the first PMP, they STOLE that idea from someone else too. With a few tweaks and improvements here and there.
    exactly why I didn't want an iPhone, I loath every uppity Apple product user. don't get me wrong, not all are like that. But for the select individuals, I can't stand them thinking that the time line for everything started at the iPhone and went from there. if anything, Apple was copying other companies by making a cellular device that makes since untill the iPhone.... Apple never had.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I already mentioned what I thought Palm did well. As for card view, you have not seen Safari's way of switching between open web pages. Don't expand my words to say something I didn't. In this instance, Palm did not create the card view. I'm not sure if Apple did either, but they certainly had a version of it long before the Pre. Palm improved it and made it the paradigm for their UI, but they did not invent it.
    Wow. See, this is exactly why I stay away from Apple products; somehow they completely sap every shred of objectivity out of your system.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    @dandbj13

    I will confess that I have not actually played with an iPhone 3GS recently. The last I had heard is that you don't get the option to save an additional copy of the video, but rather it just deletes the original.
    The iPhone is on 3.1.2, not 3.0. Apple is not sitting still like many seem to believe. Can't wait to see what obvious thing Apple discovers next. One thing's for sure, as soon as they do, a whole lot of other companies will "discover" it shortly after.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    everybody on the planet will disagree with you on that:

    WM and android does multitasking euqally well.

    listen to engadget podcasting, three experts, talked a quite a while about how Pre's multitasking is so much better than android's.

    this is important, android and wm 'do' multitasking, but are much hassal and not on the level interms of elegance and usability.

    unified MSG system.
    wave launcher
    flip up card to close program
    flip side way to switch program
    free gps navigation
    wireless charging
    usb mode
    open software distribution
    frequent OTA upgrade
    Before Helio was bought out buy Virgin Mobile and before Virgin Mobile was bought out by Sprint. (Which is why I'm a noob here) I've had a regular sprint phone before that.

    ANYWAY

    Other than touch screen development here's some food for thought.

    Back in 2005 when Helio launched they came out with two phones the Kickflip and the Drift (I bought the Drift)
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaCha - 242 242
    The Kickflip, produced by VK Mobile, was one of Helio's two launch devices and was marketed heavily to MySpace users. Debut 2005.
    -It had Stereo Bluetooth
    -It had 3G right out of the box.
    -It had SMS right out of the box.
    -It had USB mode right out of the box.
    -It had Video capturing right out of the box.
    -It had free GPS navigation. (Google Maps with GPS) Which was a free download from guess where... The on-phone app store.
    -It had almost everything I wanted in the messaging area:
    ---Text/Video/Pic messaging (2MP pics)
    ---Helio Mailbox
    ---MSN messenger w/hotmail box
    ---Y! Messenger w/yahoo mailbox
    ---Gtalk w/Gmail box
    ---2 POP/IMAP setups
    ---MS Exchange (required monthly fee but was a free download)

    It clearly lacked open source and touch screen and wireless charging, etc. But it was still ahead of it's time then.

    The iPhone lacked 3G, SMS, video capturing and whatever else I'm missing. Some of the Biggest features desired by consumers. The Pre lacks a MSN messenger which is something I really do miss. but there will probably be an update for that. Not sure what else, still haven't owned the thing a week yet.

    Not really fair comparing the iPhone 2G and the Pre since they came out at different times. But features that were already available on many other phones is what I'm comparing.

    and this might just be me but, I A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y cannot stand not having a physical Keyboard. And don't give me this "oh you just aren't used to it yet" Bullshiz because my Pre is defective and the keyboard stopped working 2 days after I got it. Downloading the virtual keyboard patch almost closing a week since the physical one failed. I HAVE gotten used to it more, but greatly still desire the physical one working over the touch screen a million times over.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Seems there are lots of clever ways to avoid the central question. Let's take it one by one. We can start with the last one.

    Video Editing: Did Palm have this implementation before the iPhone, or did they shamelessly rip it off? Please point out any implementation of this feature by anyone before the iPhone.
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    Use a timeline to trim video. How clever?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain Mantis View Post
    I like that you keep harping on one thing when people bring up multiple other things in line with WHAT THE THREAD TITLE ASKED.


    What video editing program DOES NOT use a timeline?

    Seriously. iPhone brought editing to mobile devices...bravo....

    It would be pathetic if Palm didn't do the same thing.


    exactly, how else would you do it, its all base off the analog way of doing things. hell windows edited via time line. conventional movie makers layout a timeline of how the script and footage should be well.. layed out.
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    ...Windows approached with a lot of functionality, but little polish, which OSX approached from lots of polish but little functionality.
    ...
    Which was totally ripped off from Xerox (let the fun begin ...)
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Baloney.

    Your response was to this comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    desktop-level multitasking IS exclusive.
    smart notification system IS exclusive.
    clean desktop IS exclusive.
    wave launcher IS exclusive.
    ...
    ...

    however, I dont think the way you approach the problem is correct:

    think, compare to ALL other devices:

    what does iPhone have that no other devices have?
    what does BBhave that no other devices have?
    what does androidhave that no other devices have?
    what does wm have that no other devices have?
    You're saying it's insane to ask a question about what the iPhone doesn't have that other phones provide? Only someone who's drunk the koolaid would think so. Hell, it wasn't even specifically directed to iPhone, you just picked that one out.

    No, what you did was jump in and started talking about how everybody on the planet copied everything they do from your beloved Apple when that wasn't even the question.
    right, he kept silent till anyone uttered the word iPhone, and by that original comment he replied to, it was in good light of iPhone, not bashing by any means of the word.
  20. #120  
    on top of that, by his logic, I can rightfully say he copied Helio's app store, Helio's 3G integration, Helio's video capturing, Helio's SMS capabilities, GPS capabilities.

    As far as I know of the few phones that had Wi-Fi. I'll speak up for the BBerry users, checked this out. BlackBerry Pearl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Black Berry pearl (Released September of 2006) had Wi-Fi capabilities before the iPhone ever came out, which came out in January of 2007 iPhone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Just as a reference here's my research source iPhone Comparison Chart - iPhone Comparison - iPhone Features Comparison


    ...You know, someone that not only says something to be true, but provides evidence to back it up. I'm not someone trying to point out stupid little things that are in a whole, not new ideas. But snuffing out the accusations that were said that the iPhone did it first. People who want to continue such claims that Apple was ripped off by what I posted here in this post, can stop right Fing now.

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