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  1. RafRol's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You could walk that cat all the way back to the Newton, but that misses the point of the thread.
    No, you can take it way back to 1989 with the GRiDPad and Jeff Hawkins, but you're right about missing the point of the thread.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    If you take away the brand name, the brag is that the iPhone "introduced" a portable music player on the smartphone, except they didn't. It had already been done years before. By Palm.
    What Apple did that was game changing was to introduce a phone with a usable web browser. The Music app was just more polished than their competitors and synced to iTunes.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    What Apple did that was game changing was to introduce a phone with a usable web browser. The Music app was just more polished than their competitors and synced to iTunes.
    The iPhone brought a number of nice improvements to the smartphone game and is a nice device. But the OS interface is old and sucky, and I guarantee you the next version will try to improve on what Palm has going now.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by RafRol View Post
    1. Lack of Pre-EXCLUSIVE features: I actually think that exclusive features usually aren't as helpful as some would think. Take BlackBerry Messenger: it's cool, yes, but it's also proprietary so it's only useful with owners of other BlackBerries. Wouldn't it be better to use something that's more open i.e. AIM, Yahoo Messenger? Heck, SMS & MMS.
    BMM has several advantages over SMS.

    1) Its included in every BB plan, SMS is a ripoff.
    2) It can send to any BB in any country (so can email of course but BBM is much faster.)
    4) Its also faster than SMS
    5) Unlike SMS it works over wi-fi.
    6) It tells you if your message has reached the other parties phone and if they have read the message. This is the killer feature. Its great when you are trying to meet up with someone in the city and they are travelling by subway. You know almost instantly when they reach the surface.

    SMS has one major advantage over BBM of course, almost everyone has a cellphone. Even people with Blackberries don't always have access to BBM because their IT dept blocks it.

    Things like AIM and Yahoo messenger have the same problem that BMM does, they are not universal. They don't offer all the BBM features either.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    What Apple did that was game changing was to introduce a phone with a usable web browser. The Music app was just more polished than their competitors and synced to iTunes.
    And now we're into personal opinions rather than facts.

    Personally, I agree that the browser that existed on previous smartphones stunk, but to say that Apple introduced one that was "usable" is actually incorrect.

    I used my browser on the Treo regularly. It was light years (figuratively speaking) ahead of what was out prior. I suspect that, just as we have with the personal computer, we will continue to see improvements in broswers on smart phones. It could be argued that Apple polished what was already out there, but is that really "innovation"?

    Couldn't the argument be made (or rather, continued) that since it already existed, they "ripped it off"?
  6. #86  
    I think the browser that I first used that I would consider usable is Picsel Browser. The rendering was great, inertia scrolling, the crisp text when you zoom in excellent.
    Last edited by LupeValenz; 01/11/2010 at 03:47 PM.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And now we're into personal opinions rather than facts.

    Personally, I agree that the browser that existed on previous smartphones stunk, but to say that Apple introduced one that was "usable" is actually incorrect.

    I used my browser on the Treo regularly. It was light years (figuratively speaking) ahead of what was out prior. I suspect that, just as we have with the personal computer, we will continue to see improvements in broswers on smart phones. It could be argued that Apple polished what was already out there, but is that really "innovation"?

    Couldn't the argument be made (or rather, continued) that since it already existed, they "ripped it off"?
    The Treo/Centro browser is/was only really usable on mobile friendly web sites. To suggest that Apple "polished what was already out there" shows a strong anti-Apple bias. The iPhone may suck as a phone and Apple may be a bunch of control freaks, but it has always had a excellent web browser capable of accessing almost all web sites.
  8. RafRol's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    BMM has several advantages over SMS.

    1) Its included in every BB plan, SMS is a ripoff.
    2) It can send to any BB in any country (so can email of course but BBM is much faster.)
    4) Its also faster than SMS
    5) Unlike SMS it works over wi-fi.
    6) It tells you if your message has reached the other parties phone and if they have read the message. This is the killer feature. Its great when you are trying to meet up with someone in the city and they are travelling by subway. You know almost instantly when they reach the surface.

    SMS has one major advantage over BBM of course, almost everyone has a cellphone. Even people with Blackberries don't always have access to BBM because their IT dept blocks it.

    Things like AIM and Yahoo messenger have the same problem that BMM does, they are not universal. They don't offer all the BBM features either.
    You are right on all of your points. However point 6 proves mine: when you are trying to meet up with someone in the city and they are travelling by subway AND don't have a BlackBerry, BBM isn't all that then. BBM is also dependant upon RIM's servers, so when the servers go down, so does BBM (and email).

    I do appreciate your comment on SMS as that was the point I was making; AIM and Yahoo Messenger are not as universal but available on most platforms. BBM is the best when it comes to mobile messenging though.
    Last edited by RafRol; 01/11/2010 at 03:57 PM.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  9. #89  
    Sorry, I can't help but feed the troll known as dandbj13....

    You still haven't answered, "Does your iPhone have an ambient light sensor?"

    Also, it appears that it's ok for Apple to copy something as long as it is, oh, what was the word you used, dynamic? Oh, no, that's right, as long as they "bring a unique spin on it."

    Thus, when you say that, how can you then argue that the things Palm have "stolen" with their own "unique spin" is somehow wrong?

    Feeding stopped for now.
  10. jaywaller's Avatar
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    #90  
    Not sure about Android but my Palm Pre allows me to connect MULTIPLE Exchange ActiveSync accounts on one device. The iPhone only allows you to connect to one Exchange Server and the integration is not even as good as the Palm.

    This is a major deal breaker for anyone working in an industry that maintains a client email address and a business email address separately. I am a Consultant and am required to receive both client email and company emails, without the use of third party connectors.

    You could say Blackberry does it but "not so fast..." - not if your company does not allow third party email helpers (such as BIS). BES only supports one Exchange account.

    To my knowledge at least vs. iPhone, BB, & even WinMo, it is the only phone that allows you to maintain multiple Exchange Accounts on one device.

    Pretty stellar if you ask me.

    Thanks.
    - Jay
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by RafRol View Post
    You are right on all of your points. However point 6 proves mine: when you are trying to meet up with someone in the city and they are travelling by subway AND don't have a BlackBerry, BBM isn't all that then.

    I do appreciate your comment on SMS as that was the point I was making; AIM and Yahoo Messenger are not as universal but available on most platforms. BBM is the best when it comes to mobile messenging though.
    I completely agree about the limited number of BBM users. OTOH My wife does have a work BB that doesn't block BBM so that does save me money on text messaging. It also saves her having to compose text messages on a dumb phone.

    I don't actually know anyone who is using AIM or Yahoo messenger on their phones so for people without BBs, I generally just use SMS or email.
  12. #92  
    I didn't read through all of the posts so forgive me if I am posting something someone else already said.

    if you compare Palm's and Apple's video editing solutions, they are very similar. However, palm did improve upon Apple's design. First, I will say Palm did copy Apple's time line interface, and why shouldn't they? Apple did it right. However, where Palm improved is the editing feature. When you edit a video in the iPhone it actually destroys the original. So, don't make mistakes. In Palm's version, the original is preserved and a new edited video is created.

    In addition Palm lets you seemlessly upload that video to youtube, facebook, and send via email or mms. Ontop of all of that, the upload to youtube will happen in the background, still allowing for multitasking. When the upload is done you get an interactive notifaction, which is innovative. The youtube notification not only tells you that the upload is complete, but it suggests how you might share your video.

    and lets be honest, companies copy each other all the time. I mean McDonalds came out with the Dollar Menu and now Burger King and Wendy's both have their clones, but magically no one seems to care. Why such hostility over defending Apple or Palm?
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The Treo/Centro browser is/was only really usable on mobile friendly web sites. To suggest that Apple "polished what was already out there" shows a strong anti-Apple bias. The iPhone may suck as a phone and Apple may be a bunch of control freaks, but it has always had a excellent web browser capable of accessing almost all web sites.
    Sorry, I disagree on the first statement. I was able to use it on most non-mobile sites (there were very few mobile sites when it was introduced). I typically had to switch it non-frames, simple mode, whatever, but it worked.

    And yes, apple coming up with one that worked better with most sites was "polishing" it is hardly anti-Apple bias, it's describing what happened.

    They did polish it very well. As a matter of fact, that was the only think I was excited about on the iPhone. It wasn't enough to make me jump, and only the Pre coming up with essentially the same browser saved me from a BB, but yes, it was polish.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by RafRol View Post
    ...
    I do appreciate your comment on SMS as that was the point I was making; AIM and Yahoo Messenger are not as universal but available on most platforms. BBM is the best when it comes to mobile messenging though.
    So, what would be great is a messaging system that incorporated SMS (text messaging), AIM, Yahoo, and even Google Talk (sorry, BBM is proprietary, so that's out), and possibly even embracing other systems through their SDK. Now that would get pretty close to universal, right? Wouldn't that be cool!!!

    Oh... wait...
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    ...
    I don't actually know anyone who is using AIM or Yahoo messenger on their phones so for people without BBs, I generally just use SMS or email.
    I tried Yahoo and AIM when they were first available on the Pre, but never got into them.

    On the other hand, my wife and I use Google Talk frequently (she has it on her work computer, I don't but have it on my phone ).

    I suspect my disenfranchisement with Yahoo and AIM had less to do with their usability, and more to do with the smaller number of users these days. Most folks I know have abandoned them either for Facebook or GTalk, or both.
  16. #96  
    If Micral didn't invent the personal computer, there would be no Apple, sooo...

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
  17. RafRol's Avatar
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    So, what would be great is a messaging system that incorporated SMS (text messaging), AIM, Yahoo, and even Google Talk (sorry, BBM is proprietary, so that's out), and possibly even embracing other systems through their SDK. Now that would get pretty close to universal, right? Wouldn't that be cool!!!

    Oh... wait...
    I had to laugh at that!

    In regards to your other post: I always thought that Instant Messaging on a cellphone is only useful when it's between a cellphone and computer.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    When you edit a video in the iPhone it actually destroys the original. So, don't make mistakes. In Palm's version, the original is preserved and a new edited video is created.
    Wrong. In fact, when you edit on the iPhone, you are presented with the option of trimming the original or creating a new file. That is better because you have the choice to avoid useless copies or keeping the original with a different version. You haven't seen an iPhone lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Complex Pants View Post
    In addition Palm lets you seemlessly upload that video to youtube, facebook, and send via email or mms.
    Same as on the iPhone with one exception, instead of Facebook, it's mobile me. You can upload video directly into the Facebook app.

    The argument, everyone copies so who cares, is an interesting defense. This thread is about what the Pre brings to the table that is not a direct copy of something else. I still vote for Synergy (am I spelling that correctly?) Even a me too device has to improve what it copies. Otherwise, there is no reason for the consumer to choose the copy. Palm has had trouble distinguishing itself from those it sought to compete with. Let's face it, the iPhone is what Palm was aiming at, not BB or WinMo. Palm brought on the comparisons. It is much too late to back away from them now.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post

    The argument, everyone copies so who cares, is an interesting defense. This thread is about what the Pre brings to the table that is not a direct copy of something else. I still vote for Synergy (am I spelling that correctly?) Even a me too device has to improve what it copies. Otherwise, there is no reason for the consumer to choose the copy. Palm has had trouble distinguishing itself from those it sought to compete with. Let's face it, the iPhone is what Palm was aiming at, not BB or WinMo. Palm brought on the comparisons. It is much too late to back away from them now.
    You're just talking nonsense. If you'd actually used a Pre you'd know that the OS is NOTHING like what is on the iPhone. Nothing. The iPhones OS is LAME and I guarantee you that the boys in Cupertino are feverishly working on a modern replacement for the antiquated one-button interface it uses now. All you're doing is cherry-picking a few features out of an OS and then claiming they add up to a copy of your beloved Jesus Phone.

    Did the Pre copy cards from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy the gesture area from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy synergy from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy non-invasive notifications from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy Touchstone from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy true multitasking of any app from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy a physical keyboard from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy a removable battery from the iPhone?
    Did the Pre copy any of this stuff from any other phone?

    Because, getting back to the original post, these are all reasons why I own a Pre.

    The iPhone is a nice device with terrific applications, but the interface sucks monkey **** and isn't something that anybody is trying to copy.

    And, once again, if anybody is Me Too, it's Apple for improving upon it's copy of the Treo smartphone which was out running apps, surfing the web, downloading email and playing games, well before Lord Jobs even thought about putting a transmitter in an iPod. I note that you keep ignoring that fact.
    Last edited by GMoney749; 01/11/2010 at 05:04 PM.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...
    The argument, everyone copies so who cares, is an interesting defense. This thread is about what the Pre brings to the table that is not a direct copy of something else. I still vote for Synergy (am I spelling that correctly?) Even a me too device has to improve what it copies. Otherwise, there is no reason for the consumer to choose the copy.
    ...
    Where you and I part ways on this is that you seem fixated on the notion that every aspect has to be unique or groundbreaking. It does not.

    In my view, the only thing outstanding that the initial iPhone offered was a very good browser and user interface. Palm basically copied the first, and improved the latter (and, no two ways about it, they did improve the UI). You are correct, they added Synergy, but they also added a usable multi-tasking that was not found on phones at the time. As far as the App Catalog, I think Palm took a close look at that, and quickly decided that a single-source proprietary app solution was not the route to go, and has since changed course.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Palm has had trouble distinguishing itself from those it sought to compete with. Let's face it, the iPhone is what Palm was aiming at, not BB or WinMo. Palm brought on the comparisons. It is much too late to back away from them now.
    Sorry, that's not what Palm said, maybe you know something they didn't... How/where/when did "Palm bring on the comparisons"?

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