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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post

    Capacitive touch phone operating systems seem obvious now, yet who had one before Apple? Palm has been making phones for well over a decade. When it came time for a "hail Mary" pass, they pulled a device from the upstart: Apple's playbook, instead of their own. The Pre is not an exact photo copy, but it seems clear that had there not been a Treo, there would never have been an iPhone. Furthermore, the Pre has not significantly improved any of the borrowed features to call them unique or innovative.

    What I want to see from all of the manufacturers is something different, not just an iteration of what someone else has done. Let someone else shake up the industry with a fresh idea.
    Fixed.
  2. #62  
    It has Mojo baby,,, yeah!
  3. strudel's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You're right. Everyone is copying the paradigm shifting Palm app store.
    This has nothing to do with Palm's App Catalog. I remember what GMoney is referring to because I was buying applications from my phone long before the iPhone existed.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    ...Uninformed enthusiasts do not help any platform.
    ...
    Well, at least part of your post was well-said.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is a response that is thoughtful and well considered. Thank you. I still don't agree, but it is the best comment to come along in a while.

    Yes, it can be done a computer. That is not the point, IMO. Apple has a way of making things seem obvious. The point is that no one thought of doing that on a smart phone until Apple did it. I dare say there are other means of editing video on a phone. Palm didn't even try to come up with ones of them. They just did what Apple did.

    Capacitive touch phone operating systems seem obvious now, yet who had one before Apple? Palm has been making phones for well over a decade. When it came time for a "hail Mary" pass, they pulled a device from the upstart: Apple's playbook, instead of their own. The Pre is not an exact photo copy, but it seems clear that had there not been an iPhone, there would never have been a Pre. Furthermore, the Pre has not significantly improved any of the borrowed features to call them unique or innovative.

    What I want to see from all of the manufacturers is something different, not just an iteration of what someone else has done. Let someone else shake up the industry with a fresh idea.
    so how about that light sensor?
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by addiarmadar View Post
    It has Mojo baby,,, yeah!
    Agreed! Synergy was a Palm exclusive. For those interested in my post history, I am on record as saying that Palm should be spending its time and money trying to advance that (which is a great feature) rather than trying to steal iTunes. They squandered their opportunity to talk about things they brought to the table. If people wanted an iTunes syncing phone, that was always going to be the iPhone. Synergy could have changed the game, IMO.
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    What exactly is "incomplete" about BB multi-tasking?
    You can't multitask everything. If you open some third party applications (games for example), then exit out to go check email, the game won't pick up where you left off. The app will have closed.
  8. ahaxton's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Uninformed enthusiasts do not help any platform.
    I dunno, seems to have done all right for the iPhone.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    That is a response that is thoughtful and well considered. Thank you. I still don't agree, but it is the best comment to come along in a while.

    Yes, it can be done a computer. That is not the point, IMO. Apple has a way of making things seem obvious. The point is that no one thought of doing that on a smart phone until Apple did it. I dare say there are other means of editing video on a phone. Palm didn't even try to come up with ones of them. They just did what Apple did.
    Palm Treos (I think) had video recording before any other phone, most certainly before the iPhone (which wasn't out at the time).

    Did Apple shamelssly rip this off (whether it was from Palm or from someone else)?

    Palm could play the videos it recorded, do you really feel that editing them is that much more an innovation over playing them?
    ...[/QUOTE]
  10.    #70  
    *sigh* This thread has turned into a circus and is not even addressing the original question anymore. This is exactly what I wanted this thread to NOT turn into.

    Anyone wanna skip pages 2-3 and respond to the relevant stuff on Page 1?
  11. #71  
    but it seems clear that had there not been a Treo, there would never have been an iPhone.
    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney749 View Post
    Fixed.
    And we could even take it further back. Without the HandSpring Treo there would never have been a Palm Treo, and without the Springboard Expansion Slot (and devices) there would never have been a HandSpring Treo. As a matter of fact, those Springboard Expansion Devices are what introduced us to Smartphones. They also introduced us to the following on a PDA (do any of these sound familiar):

    • Cell phone
    • Camera
    • Voice recorder
    • MP3 player
    • Wireless connectivity
    • GPS

    And a host of others. And this was about 10 years ago.

    Did Palm, Apple, and Google all "shamlessly rip off" from Handspring?

    I think the point being made by Gmoney is that little of what we're seeing is true innovation, but neither is it "ripping off". It's simply the progression of things.

    Apple did a great job of bringing a lot of disparte things together in one device, but it had been done before. They simply made a more attractive package, but mostly succeeded in making it "cool".

    Kudos to that, but marketing is hardly innovativtion.
  12. #72  
    Why is no one, including Palm, talking up Synergy?
  13. #73  
    Coming from a iPhone, my wife and I would spend an hour or 2 on Sundays just syncing our weekly calendars, with 4 kids in sports and school stuff.

    With the Palm Senergy in the Calendar has made my family run alot better, better than any smart phone can do right now, see all my wife's calander plus my older 2 kids stuff. Being able to see my wife info and not have to re-enter into my phone has been a blessing. She just enters the info on her phone, 10 minutes it shows up on my phone, and vice versa. Where I work I have Exchange and 8 e-mail accounts and all this sync together seemless. Yes we miss a few features in the Calendar but they will come soon.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And we could even take it further back.
    You could walk that cat all the way back to the Newton, but that misses the point of the thread.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Agreed! Synergy was a Palm exclusive. For those interested in my post history, I am on record as saying that Palm should be spending its time and money trying to advance that (which is a great feature) rather than trying to steal iTunes. They squandered their opportunity to talk about things they brought to the table. If people wanted an iTunes syncing phone, that was always going to be the iPhone. Synergy could have changed the game, IMO.
    Actually, Katie Mitic did talk about Synergy in her presentation. It was easy to miss, but the talk about opening up the SDK is a big thing. It'll just take a little while for that finish "baking".
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by sbrad425 View Post
    Coming from a iPhone, my wife and I would spend an hour or 2 on Sundays just syncing our weekly calendars, with 4 kids in sports and school stuff.

    With the Palm Senergy in the Calendar has made my family run alot better, better than any smart phone can do right now, see all my wife's calander plus my older 2 kids stuff. Being able to see my wife info and not have to re-enter into my phone has been a blessing. She just enters the info on her phone, 10 minutes it shows up on my phone, and vice versa. Where I work I have Exchange and 8 e-mail accounts and all this sync together seemless. Yes we miss a few features in the Calendar but they will come soon.
    And there you have hit on something that Palm definitely did better than anyone else, and (as far as I know) still brings something unique to the Pre.

    Synchronizing multiple calendars works better with the Pre than any device up to this point (in my opinion).

    Syncing to multiple EAS accounts (I think) is still unique to the Pre.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You could walk that cat all the way back to the Newton, but that misses the point of the thread.
    Yes it does, but hopefully it puts to rest the tangent that the iPhone was all about innovation, and the Pre is all about copying it.

    Neither is true.
  18. strudel's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    so how about that light sensor?
    It is too bad, I was waiting to hear the justification behind that one and how Palm just copied that from Apple
  19. #79  
    Apple did not invent video editing for phones. (-_-)'
  20. RafRol's Avatar
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    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by ali.fazal View Post
    Ok, first off, I'm not trying to make this a Pre-bashing thread. Just discussing the phone. I'm not an Apple ****** or a Google employee. I am a Pre owner, and am just discussing my phone.

    As a concerned Pre owner, I am seeing two MAJOR problems that we as a WebOS community are facing.

    1. Lack of Pre-EXCLUSIVE features
    2. Lack of Power-user base

    As far as the first issue, I think many of us Pre owners are too quick to jump on the 'The Pre's UI is awesome' bandwagon. While that is true (at least for me), I think these days, what people really get hooked on is new features. While some might call these things flashy and useless, it's what sells phones, draws developers, and increased customer bases. I mean, hello, how much traction did Android 2.0 gain from Google Maps when the Pre has technically had a similar (although, admittedly inferior) feature since Day 1?

    So, once again, I ask, what does one get on the Pre that another phone can't do? The multitasking UI is indeed spectacular, but WinMo and Android do multitasking equally well-- just not in such a pretty (and one-hand friendly) way.

    The new 3D gaming is amazing, but has already been shown on Android and iPhone OS.

    I thought we were getting a unique feature in Flash, but Android looks to be getting that very soon as well (though I'm sure after the Pre by at least a few weeks).

    I think the community needs to think long and hard about what can be brought to the table that is unique, attention grabbing, and different.

    As far as the second issue, I feel the general bad word-of-mouth surrounding the Pre is intensely damaging. The reason I pinpointed for this is a lack of power-users that migrate TO the device. From what I've seen (and this is not conclusive by any means), a majority of the phone's users are individuals migrating from feature/messaging/basic phones to their first smartphone OR people who are switching from MUCH older models (the newest being the Centro, dating back to the old old Treos). I have yet to see/meet/web-encounter a person who has come from an equatable modern smartphone platform (BB, iPhone, Android), especially a flagship device for those platoforms (Bold 9700, 3GS, Droid, respectively), and feels satisfied with the phone's speed, performance, and usability. We need to figure out why this is and figure out a way to fix it.

    Because when the 'power-users' come, that's when a device gains traction in the mainstream. Both the iPhone and BB systems have major lacking features/flaws, but have become more and more widespread, whereas in it's 8 months of existence, I feel the Pre has moved backwards in gaining market share (exaggeration, I know, but bear with me).

    Either way, I'm just looking for thoughts on these topics, not necessarily slams of the Pre or slams of me for being a hired stooge by Apple/BB sent to poison the minds of naive WebOS users.
    I'll admit upfront that this may not be considered a direct response to the OP, but let's try to get back on track ...

    I really think that flashy 'bells & whistles' does not keep people on a particular platform. Yes they will get people hooked as you pointed out, but it is the day-to-day usability of a device that keeps them on the hook and it is here that WebOS stands above all.

    1. Lack of Pre-EXCLUSIVE features: I actually think that exclusive features usually aren't as helpful as some would think. Take BlackBerry Messenger: it's cool, yes, but it's also proprietary so it's only useful with owners of other BlackBerries. Wouldn't it be better to use something that's more open i.e. AIM, Yahoo Messenger? Heck, SMS & MMS. I'm sure there are other examples, but my point is most people don't get BlackBerries for BBM, or any one phone for whatever exclusive feature it has (unless they're sheeple). Other exclusive features aren't as big of a deal as they are made to be: Google Maps Navigation is still navigation. Yes it's cool, but Sprint Nav will get me to point B as well. Most people get their phone for the total package.

    2. Lack of Power-user base: Really? That's an insult to the Homebrewers. You owe them a sincere apology. What other platform is as open as Palm/WebOS? This in itself ATTRACTS power-users. That being said, I will argue that a platform does not need power-users to succeed. Power-users are not what made the iPhone a success. WebOS has plenty of power-users (hackers/programmers, lawyers, people in the medical field, business owners), but it's success does not rest with them alone.

    This forum is littered with former Pre owners that made a switch to other platforms out there and have made their way back to WebOS, which brings me back to my original point. It's not the bells and whistles that brought them back, but WebOS and it's usability. You will also find throughout our forum many PDA & smartphone users (old and modern) that have made the switch to WebOS and are more than content with their move.

    As a concerned Pre owner, I am seeing one MAJOR problem that we as a WebOS community are facing:

    A lack of a clear and concise marketing effort by Palm. But this deserves it's own thread. Let's hope that that changes for 2010.
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
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