View Poll Results: How is your battery life after upgrading to 1.3.5 or 1.3.5.1?

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  • I have stock WebOS (no homebrew) and my battery life is better

    38 14.73%
  • I have stock WebOS (no homebrew) and my battery life is worse

    32 12.40%
  • I have homebrew, and my battery life is better

    51 19.77%
  • I have homebrew, and my battery life is worse

    54 20.93%
  • I have homebrew, including quake, doom, classic invaders or super tux and my battery life is better

    39 15.12%
  • I have homebrew, including quake, doom, classic invaders or super tux and my battery life is worse

    34 13.18%
  • I have other scenario (please include in comments) and my battery life is better

    3 1.16%
  • I have other scenario (please include in comments) and my battery life is worse

    7 2.71%
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  1. #141  
    Ive noticed something similar.
    1.3.5.1 has effectively undone all the good in the way of battery life, that 1.3.5 accomplished.

    I think I might just Doctor back to 1.3.5.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by jut View Post
    I ran a couple tests last night at home and was still getting 17% drain with wifi on and 1.5% drain with wifi off. I typically get about 2 bars at home. The lease time is set to 1 day and changing modes (auto 108mbps, b, g) does not make a difference. This morning here at work I ran a test with wifi off and I was getting 1.3% drain after 45 mins.... I also usually get 2 bars at work. I turned wifi on and so far, after 45 mins, I am getting 1.3% drain. The lease time is also set to 1 day and the mode is set to mixed (btwn n, g, b). I recently reset my phone and havent set up the email accounts yet so that isnt the issue for me. I dont have yahoo messenger and I have google talk set to offline. I couldnt find my old router last night so I wasnt able to test it out, hopefully I'll find it tonight
    Definitely something screwy with Wifi and WebOS 1.3.5. I made it from 8AM to 7PM with 40% with Wi-Fi off and light-moderate use. Then with Wi-fi on i Dropped from 40%->0% in 2 hrs.

    Palm, what's up with the wifi? Can a patch to put wifi back to the old way (i.e. pre-1.3.5, be made in preware as a patch?).

    I've tried webos doctor and removing patches - the leaks aren't tehre. It's clearly soemthig with Wifi
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by jut View Post
    I too have the Netgear WPN824 router at home and I'm having significant battery drain. I did some monitoring last night and with the wifi on I was getting about 17-20% drain, with it off i was getting 3-4% drain (nothing else running but the battery monitor......no calls, no texts, etc). At work we have a linksys WRT160 and yesterday I was getting about 1-2% drain. Nick made a good point, the router might be the culprit..... it seems to be the common element. I think I may have an old Linksys router at home and will try it out tonight.
    Dlink router here - with huge battery drain with wifi.
  4. jut
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    #144  
    The encryption doesn't seem to be the cause for me. I set my router to WEP and there wasn't a difference, nor did I see a difference when I turned the encryption completely off. Changing the encryption settings at work didn't change anything either. Looking back through this thread it seems those with the Netgear WPN824 and the Dlink routers are having the problems and the Linksys routers aren't causing any problems. This is also supported by the fact that I have a Netgear at home and a Linksys at work, and have no problems at work. I plan on reviewing every single setting in my Netgear tonight, and hopefully will find my old Linksys one to try.

    If more people could post the make and model of their routers it might help us nail down the cause..... or try switching routers if anyone has more than one.
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    #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by jut View Post
    I ran a couple tests last night at home and was still getting 17% drain with wifi on and 1.5% drain with wifi off. I typically get about 2 bars at home. The lease time is set to 1 day and changing modes (auto 108mbps, b, g) does not make a difference. This morning here at work I ran a test with wifi off and I was getting 1.3% drain after 45 mins.... I also usually get 2 bars at work. I turned wifi on and so far, after 45 mins, I am getting 1.3% drain. The lease time is also set to 1 day and the mode is set to mixed (btwn n, g, b). I recently reset my phone and havent set up the email accounts yet so that isnt the issue for me. I dont have yahoo messenger and I have google talk set to offline. I couldnt find my old router last night so I wasnt able to test it out, hopefully I'll find it tonight
    Good testing there. That seems to isolate the problem to either
    your home router itself, or something else about the home network.
    A thought occurs to me with regard to the latter.
    The obvious new behavior in 1.3.5 is that the Wifi radio is always on
    even when the phone "sleeps" (display off).
    When the wifi radio is truly idling it appears to use no more power than
    when it's off but I wonder if on some networks it's seeing a whole lot of
    broadcast packets from other devices, and that's preventing
    the Wifi radio from actually idling.

    Could test that theory by pulling all other devices off the router for a half hour or
    so, while you record the battery monitor stats.

    ian
  6. #146  
    I have a Pre on Sprint, 1.3.5 build 219. Just upgraded it a few days ago. Also run Preware and have various patches installed (though none which I think should impact battery life). Wifi and bluetooth are both off. Two email accounts with accompanying calendars, Exchange (push) and Gmail. Signal strength is typically excellent.

    Today in the space of 27 minutes, I watched my battery go from 70% to 60% with simple usage (read a few inbound messages, one text message, a few minutes on a local sudoku app, no calls, all else idle).

    While today I've just been able to quantify the degradation, it has seemed (anecdotally to me anyway) that the battery drain has been worse since I upgraded from 1.3.1. Same patches & apps before and after the upgrade.

    At a mostly-idle rate of 10% drain in half an hour, that means I have about 5 hours of standby time before it dies. Not at all what I was experiencing before. Was able to get through most of a business day with moderate to heavy use and still have 10-20% left for the commute home.

    Ed
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    #147  
    I get the same massive battery drain whether I'm on my home network or not, just as long as WiFi is on. Before 1.3.5 I could leave WiFi on all the time and maybe drop 1% an hour whether I was actually connected or not.

    Post 1.3.5 I get at least a 10% per hour drain regardless of whether I'm connected to a router or not. Just having WiFi turned on is enough to kick the battery drain into overdrive, no matter where I am.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott L View Post
    I get the same massive battery drain whether I'm on my home network or not, just as long as WiFi is on. Before 1.3.5 I could leave WiFi on all the time and maybe drop 1% an hour whether I was actually connected or not.

    Post 1.3.5 I get at least a 10% per hour drain regardless of whether I'm connected to a router or not. Just having WiFi turned on is enough to kick the battery drain into overdrive, no matter where I am.
    DITTO !
  9. jut
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    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott L View Post
    I get the same massive battery drain whether I'm on my home network or not, just as long as WiFi is on. Before 1.3.5 I could leave WiFi on all the time and maybe drop 1% an hour whether I was actually connected or not.

    Post 1.3.5 I get at least a 10% per hour drain regardless of whether I'm connected to a router or not. Just having WiFi turned on is enough to kick the battery drain into overdrive, no matter where I am.

    You mentioned you have the Dlink 655 at home, but do you know what kind of router you use at work?
  10. Scott L's Avatar
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    #150  
    I don't use a router at work, but in the past I could leave Wifi turned on and still experience the same 1% per hour drain that I'd see at home when connected. I never had to think about turning off WiFi because the drain was identical whether I was connected or not.

    Now whether I'm on a router, or off of one, as long as WiFi is enabled I'm draining at over 10% an hour.
  11. #151  
    I don't have any of the idle problems, at least on EV-DO. Haven't really tested it at idle with a connected wifi network yet. I just left my pre alone for 45 minutes, in which I actually didn't get any SMS or email, and battery life dropped only 2%. I have noticed that the battery does seem to drain a bit faster under heavy use, but at least it's not draining at idle. I will test it on wifi tonight when I get home.

    This is on a Bell Pre running 1.3.5.1.
  12. #152  
    Stock, without changing anything, 1.3.5 killed my battery.

    I went charging over night and unplugging at 7AM, to having about 80% by 2PM.

    Now, while I was reading these posts (in 5 minutes) I went from 84% to 80% (I've had the USB cable plugged in during the day now).

    I just turned off Wifi - as it is always on but I only connect to wifi at home, but not here at work.

    So far in a few minute I lost 2% so I'm down to 78, with wifi off. Going to see what happens in the next hour.
  13. #153  
    i just bought a damn battery, and since i've updated 1.3.5 and 1.3.5.1 it as drained like a damn ice cream out in the sun. this is ridiculas, i've just spend like $30-40 on the battery and funny thing is, i dont use wifi and bluetooth, i've never did. Also i always have my brightness on low, and my battery still draining. Im so mad right now, becuase i just bought a battery and it was working real good and lasting and even sicen i updated that 1.3.5 and 1.3.5.1 its still draining my battery, man.
    Last edited by sam_inc; 01/06/2010 at 03:40 PM.
  14. Daemon's Avatar
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    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_inc View Post
    i just bought a damn battery, and since i've updated 1.3.5 and 1.3.5.1 it as drained like a damn ice cream out in the sun. this is ridiculas, i've just spend like $30-40 on the battery and funny thing is, i dont use wifi and bluetooth, i've never did. Also i always have my brightness on low, and my battery still draining. Im so mad right now, becuase i just bought a battery and it was working real good and lasting and even sicen i updated that 1.3.5 and 1.3.5.1 its still draining my battery, man.
    I suspect yours is a different problem. The phone needs to recalibrate
    for the new battery. Let it drain most of the way, charge it
    fully (leave it on the charger after it reaches 100% for a couple hours)
    and repeat over 2-3 days, and it should be back to normal. This process
    is often necessary after each major WebOS update as well.

    ian
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    I suspect yours is a different problem. The phone needs to recalibrate
    for the new battery. Let it drain most of the way, charge it
    fully (leave it on the charger after it reaches 100% for a couple hours)
    and repeat over 2-3 days, and it should be back to normal. This process
    is often necessary after each major WebOS update as well.

    ian
    ok, imma use your advice but if it doesnt work, imma sue sprint and the palm pre creaters
  16. #156  
    "calibrate"? devices do not "calibrate" to power sources
    lithium ion batteries (in the pre) do not have memory effects and do not benefit from full-discharge-cycling
    and for those who are surprised that extraneous communication (wifi, blutooth) consumes more consumption... i dont know how to react
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    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott L View Post
    I get the same massive battery drain whether I'm on my home network or not, just as long as WiFi is on. Before 1.3.5 I could leave WiFi on all the time and maybe drop 1% an hour whether I was actually connected or not.
    Just to clarify this again.
    Prior to 1.3.5 if your phone was on standby (sleeping, screen off, no
    streaming apps started while it was on Wifi), then the Wifi radio was
    *off*. There was no practical difference between turning Wifi off
    manually, and simply putting the phone to sleep. Any background apps
    needing to access the internet while the phone was on standby would
    use EVDO radio.

    After 1.3.5, when the phone is on standby, Wifi radio is still on.
    Background apps that need to access the internet, use the
    Wifi radio rather than EVDO. It's always on, so that's related to
    the difference, but not the whole story. For some of us, Wifi will happily
    idle at low power even when in a Wifi environment. For some it
    appears to do that in one Wifi environment, and not another,
    which makes us suspicious of the routers.

    Post 1.3.5 I get at least a 10% per hour drain regardless of whether I'm connected to a router or not. Just having WiFi turned on is enough to kick the battery drain into overdrive, no matter where I am.
    Is that when not connected, but still in an active Wifi env?
    (visible Wifi networks around you)
    Have you tested it some place where there are absolutely no
    Wifi networks visible?

    ian
  18. Daemon's Avatar
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    #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by chienandalusia View Post
    "calibrate"? devices do not "calibrate" to power sources
    lithium ion batteries (in the pre) do not have memory effects and do not benefit from full-discharge-cycling
    and for those who are surprised that extraneous communication (wifi, blutooth) consumes more consumption... i dont know how to react
    The Pre absolutely does calibrate. The UI % rarely matches the actual
    battery %. The discharge voltage curve of any battery is in fact *a curve*
    (S shaped at that) and the phone has to build a map between the values in that
    curve and the % to display in the battery meter. The shape of the curve
    changes depending on the real capacity of the battery, so any time
    you swap batteries the phone needs some time to rebuild its map.
    Major WebOS updates also appear to wipe the map.
    I've watched it go through this process time and time again.
    Usually after about 3-4 days it's perfectly stable again.

    BTW, I never suggested that the Li+ battery had memory, or needed
    deep cycles for its own sake. It just just to train the phone
    where full and empty are. Until you do that, it can get very
    confused about where on the discharge curve it is, so you
    may see what appears to be abnormally high discharge rates,
    or abnormally low (I've seen it get stuck at 100% in the UI
    for 5 hours).

    ian
  19. Scott L's Avatar
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Just to clarify this again.
    Prior to 1.3.5 if your phone was on standby (sleeping, screen off, no
    streaming apps started while it was on Wifi), then the Wifi radio was
    *off*. There was no practical difference between turning Wifi off
    manually, and simply putting the phone to sleep. Any background apps
    needing to access the internet while the phone was on standby would
    use EVDO radio.

    After 1.3.5, when the phone is on standby, Wifi radio is still on.
    Background apps that need to access the internet, use the
    Wifi radio rather than EVDO. It's always on, so that's related to
    the difference, but not the whole story. For some of us, Wifi will happily
    idle at low power even when in a Wifi environment. For some it
    appears to do that in one Wifi environment, and not another,
    which makes us suspicious of the routers.
    Yes, and this arrangement seems to work out fine for some, but not for others. Unfortunately I'm one of the "others". My behavior has not changed since the upgrade, but my results definitely have.



    Is that when not connected, but still in an active Wifi env?
    (visible Wifi networks around you)
    Have you tested it some place where there are absolutely no
    Wifi networks visible?

    ian
    I have had this in WiFi environments since the upgrade (home, restaurants, office complex) both with me connected to WiFi and with WiFi turned off. And I have had this in "no WiFi" environments since the upgrade (car, movie theater, my building's cafeteria) with WiFi both on and off.

    My results have been consistent across the board. WiFi ON = massive drain, WiFi OFF = approx. 1% per hour drain, possibly even less.

    Before 1.3.5 I always left WiFi enabled and the Pre handled the different environments with no real noticeable effect on the battery life. Now, since the update, if I leave WiFi enabled the drain is outrageous. Disabling it gives me the kind of battery life I had before.

    I truly don't believe this is a router issue, my router at home has not changed and every other device I have that uses WiFi at home is just fine. The Pre, however, has had an update and from that moment forward has not worked the same.

    Just for grins after my first post today I pulled out a Linksys UltraN router we have here at the office and intend to plug into a DSL line for visitors to use when they're in our building. We haven't decided on some of the particulars yet so this wireless environment hasn't gone live. However, I configured this one and patched it into the DSL line, then configured the Pre to connect to it. My battery began to drain immediately again.
    Last edited by Scott L; 01/06/2010 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Corrected some odd formatting
  20. #160  
    the 1.3.5 update greatly improved my pixi's battery life. i did notice the 1.3.5.1 seemed to decrease it a bit. is that possible?
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