Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 64
  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mullrat View Post
    I think the people here are a bit too obsessed with the hardware. This year's hardware will be as obsolete next year as last year's is today. Hardware specs like 32 and 64gb looks great on paper, but what impressed my about web OS is the entire concept of a cloud phone. Basically where the apps are designed in the language of the web.

    No matter what, our little devices wil never be even close to the speed of the latest servers in the cloud. Web OS is the software that harnesses that. So instead of using a little 600mhz or a 1gb microprocessor with some ram, you would be limited only by your internet connection. That is the hook of Web OS. It is also the major reason Chrome OS has captured hearts and minds. Basically it puts software and not hardware in the forefront. Imagine a time when your hardware won't be obsolete in 3-4 months.

    It is going through growing pains and who knows what will happen, but the potential is massive.
    I couldn't agree more. Until the purchasing plans in the US change, the lifespan for a smartphone for a power user is going to be around 6-12 months. For non-power users, 12-24 months.

    I have had to do less "fiddling" with this phone (even counting what I've done with hacks and HomeBrew) than with any Palm smartphone I've had in the past. The cloud is going to be the great equalizer.
  2. tejoe's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    166 Global Posts
    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post

    Palm's new hardware is somewhat already obsolete on release, and most importantly
    Now if the Palm hardware was obsolete on release and the driod ,basically the same hardware, came out months after the palm did that means that the droids hardware is retro now. Another thought since there had video conferencing in europe for some time now when the iphone 4g comes with video conferencing hardware will that make the Iphone 4g a obsolete device.... Wait not to mention the snapdragon processor has been in in all kinds of devices before the nexus one and future apple and palm products will ever have it.Woe is us in the state every phone released to us has obsolete hardware. Now that thats out the question whats the next point.
    Last edited by tejoe; 01/26/2010 at 03:30 PM. Reason: cleaning up
  3. #43  
    True, it's not really worth buidling a phone that's going to last 20 years. But you can go too far the other way too. Nobody wants to buy something if, when they play with it at the store, it feels like it won't last.

    There's a happy medium somewhere in there, and I think there's a reasonable argument that the Pre would have been better received if it were just a bit more solid feeling and had a glass screen instead of that plastic.

    But back to the point, I do not think there's any reasonable argument to made that the Pre's build quality points to an impending collapse of the company.
    Palm Pilot IIIxe > LifeDrive > Pre
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    My 32GB iPhone isn't obsolete next year. The problem is that Palm is doing the same thing it did with the Treo - releasing old specs that are on their way to obsolescence already at launch. So Palm will release its 32GB phone a year after everyone else does? Screen resolution? Some of these things are important when making current comparisons.
    You're overlooking what they are doing that they didn't do with the Treos; continually, and easily updating the OS.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    My 32GB iPhone isn't obsolete next year. The problem is that Palm is doing the same thing it did with the Treo - releasing old specs that are on their way to obsolescence already at launch. So Palm will release its 32GB phone a year after everyone else does? Screen resolution? Some of these things are important when making current comparisons.


    That's great but (a) there isn't much software for anyone to be impressed about, (b) there are many alternatives that get the job done, (c) Palm's new hardware is somewhat already obsolete on release, and most importantly (d) in a few months, nobody may care less about the Palm Pre to buy enough of them to keep thi$ dream afloat. Why should I invest in some benefit today when I've got Android, the iPhone and Blackberry already doing really good things? Potential, potential, potential. But while Palm wastes endless time trying to gimmick iTunes to sync with the Pre, it wastes time not getting all those necessary apps to the market ASAP and finishes building WebOS before the money runs out and the interest in the project is shared by a select few like yourself. I hear ya... I arrived hoping to be convinced but I'm shocked at how far behind Palm is in delivering the software you dream about. I don't need all the cloud stuff. Just get the simple things done well NOW.
    I don't think that's it. After originally thinking the creepy gal ads were good for bringing in the female market, I think Palm's issue is all mindshare. I know several people who had never heard of a Pre who recently bought them on advice of relatives and friends. And they absolutely love the device.

    What iPhone and Android have going is marketing. I know a number of other people who have bought Droids on those commercials alone; showing a bunch of stuff that you can do even easier on the Pre.

    My son has a Droid Eris, and after seeing all those Droid commercials I was starting to be swayed. But the more time I spend fooling around with his Eris, the less I like Android, at least compared to WebOS. It's a very capable OS, but it reminds me a lot of WM. Very clunky, too many menus and little buttons to press. Almost needs a stylus. And the onscreen keyboard is horrible.

    The Pre has ease-of-use on all of those devices, but nobody knows about it.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    ...
    That's great but (a) there isn't much software for anyone to be impressed about, (b) there are many alternatives that get the job done, (c) Palm's new hardware is somewhat already obsolete on release, and most importantly (d) in a few months, nobody may care less about the Palm Pre to buy enough of them to keep thi$ dream afloat.
    ...
    I don't need all the cloud stuff. Just get the simple things done well NOW.
    And you are entirely missing the point. Take away "the cloud stuff", and you're pretty much correct; there's not much setting the Pre apart. "The cloud stuff" (in Palm's case, "The Cloud" +1 = synergy) is one of the major thing that sets the Pre apart.

    That said, there are those that see no value in that. For them, the Pre probably isn't the answer. Palm has already acknowledged that they don't need to be #1, the only game in town, nobody else can play. It's a big pie, they're willing to accept a piece of it.
  7. tejoe's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    166 Global Posts
    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    Palm Mindshare


    Webos Market Share


    My question is: Is there any objective evidence that things are actually improving for Palm? The Pre and Pixi launches are over. The Verizon Ad campaign was kind of a no-show. The competition has arrived (Android) and accelerating (iPhone). I'm not sure 3D games, video recording, and Flash affect this very much unless people are going to seek out a Pre to do this. Discounting may help but there's a lot of discounting going on these days. How much lower than free can you go?
    i can only answer with questions:
    Why do they have to get in completely right at this moment?
    Do you know how much market share is needed for them to survive?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by tejoe View Post
    i can only answer with questions:
    Why do they have to get in completely right at this moment?
    Do you know how much market share is needed for them to survive?
    They have to get it "right enough" to make a profit - so far they're not doing this. The amount of market share needed exceeds Palm's current market share, which is trending downward now, not upward, as shown by their Q1 [Jun-Aug] to Q2 [Sep-Nov] sales results for FY10.

    Palm now finds their phones hitting the market at rock bottom (aka slim margin) prices, yet the phones are not selling fast enough to support these (barely competitive) prices. Consequently, Palm is not making a profit and it's market share is not growing enough to ensure future profits.

    I guess you could say they need some sort of breakthrough to turn around this trend. Looks like the Verizon release wasn't the breakthrough they needed. I wonder what might be?
  9. #49  
    I don't think they're dying, but I don't think they'll be taking over the world anytime soon either. To be quite honest, I don't care all too much whether Palm's tiny mindshare makes them a long-term niche company, as long as their niche is large enough to sustain them, which at the moment seems very much possible. If they survive, so will webOS, which is really all I care about. For me, there is simply no better mobile OS on the market right now; and I'm not talking refinement or details but the basic way the UI works.

    Palm's problem, plain and simple, isn't product, it's public relations. If webOS came from Apple, it's hard to imagine how the press and blogosphere would have exploded.

    But as it is, Pre is "this phone from this small boring company I think, like, didn't old suits use those "palm" thingies in the nineties? What a joke, they're boring and dumb, probably like a Nokia oooooooooo awesome Motorola Droid ad on this website I'm reading on my iPhone that's telling me the iPhone is the second coming of christ because it's the iPhone and that's the best! But that ad seriously is cool, that Droid is really cool!"

    Palm's one, unlikely flicker of hope is that somehow, miraculously, people by chance take a Pre into their hands and try it out. It's not like carriers were helping with that; I don't know about the States or Canada, but here in Germany, the o2 stores that carry it (and that I have seen) only have them in plastic harnesses that don't let you pick it up. This immediately destroys what I think is one of webOS' best features: "just start typing".

    Seriously, just do. Instead of opening the launcher, flicking right twice, scrolling up, looking, and tapping -- just start typing 'Tweed'. If you're in an app, first click it into card view and then start typing 'Tweed'. It'll be right there by the time you're at Twe. Don't open your contacts list. Just start typing your friend's name. Don't open the browser. Just type "Abraham Lincoln" and tap Wikipedia. It's brilliant; but what people see of the Pre is a wallpaper.
    The iPhone's UI is an overcrowded, boring pocket calculator BUT looks very important what with all those apps and it's an Apple!!!! Android and WinMo (potentially) have these awesome widgets that, whenever you switch your screen on to check the time, also show you the weather, breaking news, sports results, mails, appointments and whatever assorted miscellaneous info you care to add. If the appeal isn't apparently obvious to you, you're either a three month old rhesus monkey suffering from spongiform encephalopathy or dead.
    webOS needs a clean wallpaper in order for its multitasking to work, but all info you care for is still at your fingertips - you only have to use that keyboard God, err, Ruby gave you and just start typing already!

    That's also why I don't get why people want a brick-style webOS device without a hardware keyboard. With a software keyboard that takes up half (if you're lucky) of your screen real estate, how would anything work? How would you start typing from the wallpaper? Let's say we'd get a hardware key or an icon somewhere on the screen to tap in order to get the virtual keyboard. Where does the information go? Seriously, pop out your Pre and start typing a friend's name. Bonus points if that friend's name has a few letters in common with some apps you got (CAMERon). Riddle me where that's all gonna be displayed if most of your screen is occupied by a glitchy software keyboard? Bigger screen? Just how big exactly do you want a device you're carrying with you in your pants pocket to be?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    [SIZE="4"]
    ...
    Discounting may help but there's a lot of discounting going on these days. How much lower than free can you go?
    Is Palm discounting the Pre? Do you have a source for that? They certainly are not giving them away. Keep in mind, Palm is selling (primarily) to vendors. They are discounting to get people to sign contracts. The fact that Verizon went ahead and worked a contract that brings them on board says a lot about the success of Palm. In other words, they are bringing back a carrier that they had lost.

    The carriers are Palms customers, not you or I.
  11. digink's Avatar
    Posts
    322 Posts
    Global Posts
    350 Global Posts
    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    This is going to rub some folks the wrong way, but I'm going to say it anyway. This isn't a blast at the old Palm, kudos to the new, or a judgement of the company one way or the other, it's just the way things are.

    A smartphone company doesn't make money by building devices that last 7 years and work as good as new.

    The folks that keep it for those 7 years want it to keep up with the new devices. I know this, because I've seen it in the IT field (I can't count the number of casual friends that have said "Jane Doe gave me her old computer, and it sure seems slow, can you drop by and take a look at it and get it running right?).

    It could be that the old Palm was spending way too much on build quality, and way too little on R&D into new innovations.
    I have no intention of using my Pre as the primary device for 10 years. I got every new Treo when they came out, I merely referenced my Tungsten because it still works.. I didn't say I use it everyday, and I don't just throw things away because I got a new device (which seems to be what you're implying). I am not going to get into the wasteful nature of the American public, but you seem to be condoning of that behavior so I'll leave it at that.

    That said, I expect to own a phone that doesn't creek when I type on it, doesn't twist when I push on it's slider, doesn't develop screen blotches as it warms up, DOESNT WARM UP, and doesn't randomly shut off for no reason during use.

    Palm made a inferior device from a build stand-point, period. Anyone who says otherwise is a blind fool. People who buy iPhones and HTCs dont expect to use them as their primary device for 7-10 years, but they last amazingly well for the life of the product until a new one is released with significant enough changes to buy it.

    Don't create an excuse for a company to put out a inferior product, because there simply is no excuse.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna View Post
    I have been here a while and every time a new Palm phone has been released we get a barrage of "This is the phone that will put Palm out of business" posters who are certain the "new" phone will spell the end of Palm.

    If we could search the archives there are always this group of whiners who forsee Palm's certain demise with every phone released since the 650.

    Just wondering if those people have anything to say?
    LOL, I have been here a while as well and I can verify everything you are saying is true. Its not just P|C / T|C users that have predicted Palms demise but the stupid securities analysts have as well. So far they have all been wrong wrong wrong.

    I have learned 2 things.
    1- Don't listen to the whiners / feed the trolls
    2- Don't ever buy / not buy a technology stock based on a securities analysts recommendation because they are wrong more than 50% of the time. Do your own research.
    Last edited by rc46; 01/26/2010 at 05:09 PM.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by digink View Post
    Palm made a inferior device from a build stand-point, period. Anyone who says otherwise is a blind fool.
    Build quality on the Pre IS pretty bad but they did a pretty fair job on the Pixi, so my hopes are up for the next device.

    In the meantime, a screen that I can move by less than a millimeter is good enough for me, and that's how the Pre should act; I've been a victim of bad Oreo effect myself but that's not the norm, it's an aberration (albeit a very common one). There ARE good Pres that only budge very slightly. My repaired one is one of them. Palm's quality control sure screwed up with the Pre, but I hear that the Pre Plus has been pretty much fixed already and I'm confident that the Pre's successor will be completely fixed in this department.

    For the rest of us stuck with a release-day, first-generation original Pre - that's just the price all idiots like us that go for Rev.A hardware have to pay. Furious customer feedback from early adopters lets the company know what to fix, and voila, Rev.B hardware that's just so much better. And just by the time the old product's name has been used in the media so often that non-users recognize it in the new product's commercials!
  14. digink's Avatar
    Posts
    322 Posts
    Global Posts
    350 Global Posts
    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    Build quality on the Pre IS pretty bad but they did a pretty fair job on the Pixi, so my hopes are up for the next device.

    In the meantime, a screen that I can move by less than a millimeter is good enough for me, and that's how the Pre should act; I've been a victim of bad Oreo effect myself but that's not the norm, it's an aberration (albeit a very common one). There ARE good Pres that only budge very slightly. My repaired one is one of them. Palm's quality control sure screwed up with the Pre, but I hear that the Pre Plus has been pretty much fixed already and I'm confident that the Pre's successor will be completely fixed in this department.

    For the rest of us stuck with a release-day, first-generation original Pre - that's just the price all idiots like us that go for Rev.A hardware have to pay. Furious customer feedback from early adopters lets the company know what to fix, and voila, Rev.B hardware that's just so much better. And just by the time the old product's name has been used in the media so often that non-users recognize it in the new product's commercials!
    I've said it before, I love webOS and IF Palm's next device is not plagued by these build issues (again im not looking to keep it for 200 years, but I want a solid built device) I will grab it up in a heart beat. It has been my ONLY beef with Palm.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And you are entirely missing the point. Take away "the cloud stuff", and you're pretty much correct; there's not much setting the Pre apart. "The cloud stuff" (in Palm's case, "The Cloud" +1 = synergy) is one of the major thing that sets the Pre apart. That said, there are those that see no value in that. For them, the Pre probably isn't the answer. Palm has already acknowledged that they don't need to be #1, the only game in town, nobody else can play. It's a big pie, they're willing to accept a piece of it.
    I have never read one article that highlights the cloud, making it a focal point and key decision making feature for any buyer. There is good reason for this. Wireless sync has been around as an option for a while, if desired. People want the things they do most to be done correctly. They must finish the OS. 1,000 applications with 900 of them worthless is a joke. No landscape keyboard out of the box is a joke. Requiring users to hack and homebrew the phone is ridiculous. No Outlook sync out of the box is absurd. And releasing average to middling hardware specs is just as absurd. MyFi isn't any huge selling point and few I know are ponying up $40 to create a wireless router with 5GB of data.

    And as you've seen, Palm's market share is shrinking AND THEY ARE LOSING MONEY!!! If what I saw was correct, they lost 135 million third quarter 2009. With just over double the cash equivalents, they run out during third quarter 2010. Yes they will make more profits off the Pre Plus but if they lose... let's say a mere 90 million per quarter. They run out of cash in just under a year.

    Palm is in big trouble. The Pre Plus better sell like hotcakes. It's now a clear #5 in the market and dropping. If you want perspective, they are like the Mac OS without any establish applications market. I love Palm but Colligan really blew it this time. It's a toss up for me whether to go WebOS realizing and accepting that the phone may easily be a dead end next year and all my accessories and purchased applications.

    On the bright side, it looks like there was a joint Verizon/Palm full page ad on the back of the Times. It's certainly a start but I have yet to see ubiquitous Palm ads.
  16. #56  
    What is it with you haters and the hardware specs? When the Pre was introduced at the 2009 CES, it was the first mobile device making use of the Cortex A8 if i'm not wildly off here. When Apple stuck the exact same processor, exact same graphics chip, and screen with the exact same resolution in the 3GS, everybody was achatter about how awesome it is. What exactly is it that you want?

    The all New Palm Prox!
    15 inch foldable TrueColor ePaper screen
    5 Terabyte flash drive (expandable to 10 Petabyte by microSD)
    Cortex XX quantum processing unit

    Probably still crap because if they had that technology, other (much larger) companies would have it too. They're not wizards at Palm, but that seems to be what people expect of them. When will Palm finally see that for Palm to release a device people will call "good", it must be at least twice as good as the competition. If it's just as good as the competition, the competition wins by default.

    It's a little like Reps and Dems. If dems have a 59-41 majority they can't do anything because they lack a popular mandate. If Reps have a 55-45 majority, they can do everything because that's a majority right there!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by GodShapedHole View Post
    What is it with you haters and the hardware specs? When the Pre was introduced at the 2009 CES, it was the first mobile device making use of the Cortex A8 if i'm not wildly off here. When Apple stuck the exact same processor, exact same graphics chip, and screen with the exact same resolution in the 3GS, everybody was achatter about how awesome it is. What exactly is it that you want?

    The all New Palm Prox!
    15 inch foldable TrueColor ePaper screen
    5 Terabyte flash drive (expandable to 10 Petabyte by microSD)
    Cortex XX quantum processing unit

    Probably still crap because if they had that technology, other (much larger) companies would have it too. They're not wizards at Palm, but that seems to be what people expect of them. When will Palm finally see that for Palm to release a device people will call "good", it must be at least twice as good as the competition. If it's just as good as the competition, the competition wins by default.

    It's a little like Reps and Dems. If dems have a 59-41 majority they can't do anything because they lack a popular mandate. If Reps have a 55-45 majority, they can do everything because that's a majority right there!
    they want a laptop, but cannot afford it, so they buy a phone and then come here and whine that it wont perform like a laptop can.. oh yeah they also cannot afford the internet card for the laptop either
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    They have to get it "right enough" to make a profit - so far they're not doing this. The amount of market share needed exceeds Palm's current market share, which is trending downward now, not upward, as shown by their Q1 [Jun-Aug] to Q2 [Sep-Nov] sales results for FY10.
    ...
    Sorry, it's misleading to take a product that was released in June, and compare it's sales that quarter to sales in the next quarter, and say it's "trending downward". Beyond the very obvious, one quarter doesn't indicate a "trend" in a brand new product.

    Keep trying though, it's fun to watch.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hatchettjack View Post
    they want a laptop, but cannot afford it, so they buy a phone and then come here and whine that it wont perform like a laptop can.. oh yeah they also cannot afford the internet card for the laptop either
    "The Pre will come with 8 GB of storage, and it will also have integrated Wi-Fi, 3G connectivity, GPS, and Bluetooth 2.0, and it uses Texas Instruments' OMAP 3430 processor for 'laptop-like speeds,' Palm said."

    Source: Palm Pins Comeback Hopes On 'Pre' Smartphone -- Palm Smartphone -- InformationWeek

    just sayin.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hinky View Post
    I have never read one article that highlights the cloud, making it a focal point and key decision making feature for any buyer. There is good reason for this.
    ...
    You're making quite a leap there. Are we to infer that because you "have never read one article" that you believe they don't exist?

    I submit that the "good reason for this" is that you don't read enough.

    All of the things you list as "absurd" are either incorrect, or only "absurd" in your opinion.

    I submit that most of us can't use 100 different applications on a regular basis. In addition, my 100 "useful" apps would likely be different than yours.

    Why is "homebrew" ridiculous? It's been around for decades for other devices, and has done quite well. There are even very successful "homebrew" os's.

    MyFi isn't "huge", but is certainly desired. And again, you make the crazy assumption that because you don't know many people that won't pony up for means there aren't many.

    Palm is actually increasing units sold (the market is getting bigger), and yes, they're losing money. They planned on losing money at this point. They are still on target with their plans.

    The "Palm is in big trouble" is the part I like most in your response. That's the whole point of this thread. You self-proclaimed experts have been predicting the demise of Palm for a while. I think yer wrong (And you keep bringing up Colligan. You know he's not working at Palm any more, right?)

    I take it from your last part about questioning going to WebOS, that you don't actually own one. So all of your naysaying is basically theoretical?
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions