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  1.    #1  
    This is a bit developer-oriented, but it's a crucial UI issue that affects every webOS user every day.

    First, for a quick example of the drag delay issue, try listening to a podcast and dragging the slider forward by 1 minute. You cannot. Instead, you have to drag it forward ~5-10 minutes, then drag it back to get where you want. On the iPhone, you get 1:1 dragging throughout the OS immediately.

    This delay is by design, and it affects every aspect of webOS (sliders, lists, the Launcher).

    It also prevents many kinds of applications from even being created, the kind which require fine dragging movements (certain games, for example).


    As of mid-December, we have finally received solid word from Palm about it:

    Thanks for the feedback guys and sorry for the delay in responding (The best approach was being debated). We now have a feature request submitted and will see a fix in an upcoming update.
    This is a huge boon for usability and responsiveness in the UI, as well as for applications in general. It is an issue I find to be as important as hardware-accelerated graphics, though it does not receive nearly as much attention from press or the community.
  2. #2  
    +1 I do gate the dragging in webos. Glad to hear it will be fixed soon! Good work!
  3. #3  
    Baryn - Can you provide an example of what this looks like in the Launcher and in lists? I have my suspicions, but if you can clarify that would be great.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  4. #4  
    So that's why fine-tuning brightness using a slider is such a P.I.T.A. Thanks for the info!
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    #5  
    I noticed this too. I could never tell if it was lag or by design, but I hated it. Glad to hear it's being fixed!
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Baryn - Can you provide an example of what this looks like in the Launcher and in lists? I have my suspicions, but if you can clarify that would be great.
    Just try to fine-tune a slider, drag a Launcher page left or right very slowly, or try to pan very finely in Google Maps.

    You'll notice nothing happens until you hit a radius of 25 pixels in any direction. That's almost 10% of the horizontal resolution, which is why fine dragging has been nearly impossible so far.
  7. #7  
    This was by design? Curious choice...I can't see any application in which this weird dragging would be useful, so maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

    It's good to see Palm address it though. It'll definitely help the UI's usability a lot.
  8. #8  
    Wow, can't wait for this to be fixed. Thanks for the info!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustoid View Post
    This was by design? Curious choice...I can't see any application in which this weird dragging would be useful, so maybe someone can point me in the right direction?.
    Possibly so that no one changes any slider related option or moves an icon by accident?

    That's the only reason i can see, but anyhow, glad its getting fixed, this will make the Pre *seem* more responsive now
  10. #10  
    I would imagine it being implemented in a way that the application must request 1:1 dragging, perhaps on a control-specific basis. I don't see the built-in apps changing much.
  11. #11  
    This is GREAT news. I have always hated the delay in dragging. This should make everything much smoother. Wewt!
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  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustoid View Post
    This was by design? Curious choice...I can't see any application in which this weird dragging would be useful, so maybe someone can point me in the right direction?
    This is actually built into Webkit, according to my investigations, though I'm having trouble finding a source to prove this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    this will make the Pre *seem* more responsive now
    On the contrary, it will *be* more responsive!
  13. #13  
    =)

    I hope this is true.

    It's the only thing that I am envious about when it comes to iPhones. They have a smooth time about things.
  14. #14  
    Have not noticed this problem, but I hardly ever use this feature, but I am always game for any improvements.
  15. #15  
    Specifically, this is related to the drag radius, or how far a touch has to move before the OS recognizes it as a drag and not just someone rolling their finger on a tap.

    This will first be used in games where dragging is always assumed (like air hockey), and may trickle down into sliders eventually. I don't see Palm or anyone else really doing this for drag-able lists, since you don't want to interpret a "messy" tap as a drag (which I know could become very infuriating for the user).
    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall
    I'm an Embedded Software Engineer. My idea of a Good User Interface is printf().
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by blatherdrift View Post
    =)

    I hope this is true.
    Of course it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brain_ReCall View Post
    I don't see Palm or anyone else really doing this for drag-able lists, since you don't want to interpret a "messy" tap as a drag (which I know could become very infuriating for the user).
    iPhone OS seems to work just fine. It should be OS-wide, and now it will be.
  17. #17  
    It was likely implemented for tap+hold gestures on the touchscreen.

    I can scroll just fine a youtube video slider if I just hold for a second to let the nub light up, then carefully drag left or right.

    The iphone is not 1:1; there is some delay. I'll give it credit for being more finely tuned; the Pre's delay seems to prevent people from getting frustrated with tapping (some people drag slightly when they tap, and it thus does not register as a tap but instead a 'drag').

    We need to keep some of the delay. You mention a "25 pixel radius" which does seem to be pretty far, so perhaps it can be fine-tuned to 12-16 pixels (5% of screen width).
  18. #18  
    I want it iphone quality scrolling. It needs to feel like 1:1
  19. #19  
    I'm extremely happy to see this! I haven't seen this mentioned before so I thought it was something only I noticed. I think its most apparent on the browser.

    Try looking at these forums and then scroll down a line or two. You can't do it without jumping down several lines. I find it quite annoying, especially knowing how well the iPhone handles that sort of thing.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-360 View Post
    Possibly so that no one changes any slider related option or moves an icon by accident?

    That's the only reason i can see, but anyhow, glad its getting fixed, this will make the Pre *seem* more responsive now
    That seems like as good an explanation as any, but IMO a feature to help eliminate errors shouldn't introduce a very noticeable usability issue like this which is why I'm surprised this got by Palm's testers.
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