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  1. #21  
    +1. I knew i wasn;t crazy. Dragging/touching has always felt inaccurate. It's somewhat better in 1.3.5 but needs to be a lot better
  2. #22  
    Dumb Question: Are they going to change the default behavior across webOS, or provide a new API option to avoid the delay which will need to be called by the app?
  3. pomokey's Avatar
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    #23  
    I think some of the confusion as to what this problem is, has to do with what people are calling it. It's not really a delay, but a threshold. it's the threshold for the amount of motion your finger can move that will determine when the phone changes from what you did as being a tap, to being a drag. right now, the threshold is simply too high.

    after this threshold, it is 1:1 dragging (which if it was not, that wouldn't be a delay, that would be scaling)

    palm apparently assumed the phone was going to get lots of messy taps, and it wanted to ensure that only deliberate drags were accepted as drags. adjusting the drag threshold or how it is handled should definitely improve how the phone responds to drag inputs, but hopefully it wont interfere with taps.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Baryn View Post
    This is a bit developer-oriented, but it's a crucial UI issue that affects every webOS user every day.

    First, for a quick example of the drag delay issue, try listening to a podcast and dragging the slider forward by 1 minute. You cannot. Instead, you have to drag it forward ~5-10 minutes, then drag it back to get where you want. On the iPhone, you get 1:1 dragging throughout the OS immediately.

    This delay is by design, and it affects every aspect of webOS (sliders, lists, the Launcher).

    It also prevents many kinds of applications from even being created, the kind which require fine dragging movements (certain games, for example).


    As of mid-December, we have finally received solid word from Palm about it:



    This is a huge boon for usability and responsiveness in the UI, as well as for applications in general. It is an issue I find to be as important as hardware-accelerated graphics, though it does not receive nearly as much attention from press or the community.
    Thanks for reporting this news!

    This has always bugged the heck out of me, but I figured I was being a little too sensitive as a UI/usability/interaction-design guy...In fact, I finally got it off my to-list (today) to put in a patch request for this very problem:
    (http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2204795 )

    But then, I searched and refound this thread, and I'm guessing that no one will feel like working on a patch with an impending fix...

    For those of you for whom this problem is still unclear...hm, I thought of it like the dead zone in a joystick...that circle in the middle within which you can wiggle the stick without making anything happen, and past which you have to move the stick to have the software/game/etc. recognize that you've actually moved the joystick.

    And man, I do hope it'll be an OS-wide change, as it's struck me as mostly an OS-wide problem. (There do seem to be some exceptions, where the drag threshold/dead zone seems smaller...I feel like the dashboard and flicking/dragging the notifications to dismiss them have smaller dead zones/thresholds.)

    UPDATE: After reading some more, I found your patch request thread (http://forums.precentral.net/webos-p...ag-radius.html ), making mine extraneous...Maybe the mods'll delete mine or merge it into yours.
    Last edited by Shadowhawk; 02/05/2010 at 08:18 PM.
  5. #25  
    thanx for the heads up, I really hope that they fix this soon (1.4?) cuz that should make 3d games like assasins creed much more enjoyable when using the virtual joystick... Many people blamed the game where it was webos itself that limited the motion of the directions.
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  6. #26  
    I really don't think that the movement threshold applies to the 3D games. I find the virtual joystick in Quake for example to be overly sensitive to movement.
  7. #27  
    maybe quake seems more responsive because of how it was ported? But try playing any of the games with an onscreen joystick. The drag delay definitely gimps their usability.
  8. Daemon's Avatar
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    #28  
    As mentioned above it's not a delay at all, since it's not time dependent.
    It doesn't matter how long you wait, it'll never move if you don't cross the
    minimum threshold for movement. In joystick parlance it's a "dead zone",
    and it's there to avoid constant jitter around center. For a touchscreen
    interface it's so that minor changes in finger position and force don't cause
    constant wandering of the virtual point of contact.
    Is it annoying? Yes. Can they truly fix it to what you call 1:1 control?
    I very much doubt it.

    ian
  9. #29  
    Can't wait for this fix, the drag delay's really been getting on my nerves after playing with my friend's iTouch for a while.
  10. #30  
    I'm glad this will be fixed soon as well, I noticed it right away and has bothered me since. This issue makes it annoying to use music player on a daily basis.
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    #31  
    So THAT's what it is! I think having a lower threshold or 1:1 dragging would dramatically improve the feel of the UI. I mean simply moving this web page up and down has a slight delay then a jump (posting from my pre) that feels jerky and slow. And it is throughout web os... Dragging launcher pages, sliders, scrolling web pages, games... This is why touch screen controls for tetris and brickbreaker are so lame! Or in Preopoly, try trading an exact amount of money to a player using the slider, it's really difficult!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    As mentioned above it's not a delay at all, since it's not time dependent.
    It doesn't matter how long you wait, it'll never move if you don't cross the
    minimum threshold for movement. In joystick parlance it's a "dead zone",
    and it's there to avoid constant jitter around center. For a touchscreen
    interface it's so that minor changes in finger position and force don't cause
    constant wandering of the virtual point of contact.
    Is it annoying? Yes. Can they truly fix it to what you call 1:1 control?
    I very much doubt it.

    ian
    That doesnt make any sense at all... if I'm using the virtual joystick (once you break the 25px threshold) and I'm holding straight up to run, there isn't any constant jittering. Why would this be different for centering? In fact once you do break the drag threshold, I typically just roll my thumb to make minor joystick adjustments and it works great without any "jitter"

    Whatever your argument is, it's very clear the "dead zone" (drag distance threshold) is too large for minor adjustments to sliders, and more feasable use of on screen joysticks.
  13. #33  
    sounds good, thought it was jus a problem with mine
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly_addams View Post
    That doesnt make any sense at all... if I'm using the virtual joystick (once you break the 25px threshold) and I'm holding straight up to run, there isn't any constant jittering. Why would this be different for centering? In fact once you do break the drag threshold, I typically just roll my thumb to make minor joystick adjustments and it works great without any "jitter"

    Whatever your argument is, it's very clear the "dead zone" (drag distance threshold) is too large for minor adjustments to sliders, and more feasable use of on screen joysticks.
    This delay thing happens before the threshold has been broken. Once the threshold has been broken, then small movements register more accurately. A better example would be moving the joystick slightly up to run with no response in Assassin's Creed or Quake at first vs. after pushing all the way up to run and then slightly left to turn left.

    Or, try the youtube app or a music app and try slide the button forward by a few seconds. Before 1.3.5 this was very noticeable, and now not so much but it's still there.
  15. #35  
    another bump for a fix, this issue paired with the overall sluggishness of the phone and horrible touch sensitivity makes the pre a love/hate phone
  16. fletch259's Avatar
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    #36  
    Any word on if this is coming to 1.4?
  17. #37  
    i doubt it. We'd have heard more.
  18. #38  
    +1 This would be great
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  19. #39  
    Any updates on this? I just got NOVA and now I realize the issue is doubly annoying for shooters cuz there's a delay for the movement joystick as well as the aiming.
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  20. #40  
    It was likely implemented for tap+hold gestures on the touchscreen.
    Now there is something I expected a lot of on WebOS ...

    {I never liked playing with cards until webOS made it useful}
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