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  1. #41  
    Mikah's opinion of what is and isn't possible with webos is not based on true Webos possibilities. That's whats proven. A lot of people would low ball palms capability and say its not possible at all, others would think palm is capable of greater feats and thus not discount them because the end result maybe unforeseen. We know where Mikah stands.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I don't always (or even usually) agree with Mikah, but I think he's right on this.

    At the time, the chances of it having been webOS that they were doing a port for were literally 0. Just because the prediction that was wrong then, ended up becoming right 3 1/2 months later, doesn't make the prediction then any less wrong.
    Then that begs the question - what entirely different mobile platform were they discussing?

    Sorry Jeff, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Granted, they probably knew something Mikah didn't know, but that doesn't deflect the possibility, no, the probability that WebOS was exactly what they were talking about.

    However, the fact that we as users, no matter how advanced a user we might be, don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes is exactly why one shouldn't make such statements as "zero chance" or even (dare I say it), "the Pre and Pixi are toast".
  3. #43  
    You do know where I stand. Been crystal clear about it. Love that H-dog gets so worked up and follows me everywhere, rambling at length and repeatedly. My very own Stan.
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    #44  
    dang. I was hoping this thread had some info on the Unreal Engine
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Then that begs the question - what completely different mobile platform were they discussing?

    Sorry Jeff, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Granted, they probably knew something Mikah didn't know, but that doesn't deflect the possibility, no, the probability that WebOS was exactly what they were talking about.

    However, the fact that we as users, no matter how advanced a user we might be, don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes is exactly why one shouldn't make such statements as "zero chance" or even (dare I say it), "the Pre and Pixi are toast".
    It's not Jeff, it's Joe.

    And at the time, they announced that the Unreal SDK was going to be released on an additional platform other than the iPhone. When they announced that other platform, it ended up being Tegra. So, people's speculation that it was going to end up on the Pre at the time was just a flat out guess and wishful thinking, based on the fact that they were hoping webOS would be one of the other platforms announced.

    On top of that, at that point in time, there was no knowledge of the PDK to anyone who was not in Palm or one of the four partners listed in the Palm press release (Glu, Gameloft, EA Mobile, and Laminar Research).

    The predictions of this were grasping at straws at the time. Like I said, because it happens to come out now, doesn't make it that they weren't grasping at straws then.

    There was literally no chance. If Epic had the PDK at the time, then do you really think that Palm would've let their platform not even get the slightest mention in the Epic presentation? Do you think that Epic wouldn't have made a press release earlier? It's not like they're going to have the possibility of doing something and just hold onto it for 3 months for no reason. It is possible now, so they announced it now. If it had been possible then, they'd have announced it then.

    And keep in mind that we've already been told that there's stuff in the new beta of the PDK that wasn't possible on the earlier versions that were given to those four partners.
    Last edited by jhoff80; 03/11/2010 at 05:23 PM.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It's not Jeff, it's Joe.

    And at the time, they announced that the Unreal SDK was going to be released on an additional platform other than the iPhone. When they announced that other platform, it ended up being Tegra. So, people's speculation that it was going to end up on the Pre at the time was just a flat out guess and wishful thinking, based on the fact that they were hoping webOS would be one of the other platforms announced.
    ...
    Sorry about the name. I think I've done that before, and wasn't corrected. I'll do my best to remember

    I didn't know about the Tegra release. As a matter of fact, I don't even know about the "Tegra" device. If that's the case, then you (and even Mikah) are correct, they weren't talking about WebOS.
  7. #47  
    I agree with hparsons. Knowing about the pdk was totally irrelevant. We knew the hardware could support it just the code didn't exist at the time but there's no reason why it couldn't exist in the future. A better answer would of been "possible" instead of zero.
  8. #48  
    Yeah no big deal about the name thing.

    Anyway, there's no specific Tegra device, it's basically Nvidia's system on a chip platform similar to TI's OMAP.

    Unreal Engine 3 was announced as running on Tegra a week or two after it was shown on the iPhone. The iPhone version was demoed end of December, and the Tegra version was shown at an Nvidia conference at CES:

    Live from NVIDIA's CES press event -- Engadget

    And anyway, all that really matters is that now it is possible on webOS, something that is a great thing for the platform and for games on the platform. Honestly, it doesn't even matter if a game gets released using it, or what games ever use it. The fact of the matter is, it continues to show that the Pre is every bit as powerful as the 3GS.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    You do know where I stand. Been crystal clear about it. Love that H-dog gets so worked up and follows me everywhere, rambling at length and repeatedly. My very own Stan.
    You flatter yourself entirely too much. I don't "follow" you, I suspect there are many posts that I never even see.

    But, since we're on the nonsensical topic that I'm somehow "following", why don't you share again about how you made a big production of how I was the "only person you ever blocked" on this forum, then a few weeks later, you quietly unblocked me, then a few weeks after that, felt compelled to respond to a post of mine, and only then admitted what you'd done.

    You're definitely entertaining, I'll give you that. Not very accurate with information, and pretty selective about "facts", but entertaining.
  10. #50  
    Actually, some people speculated that WebOS would be the platform mentioned because the WebOS Internals groups had just discovered the SDL libraries in 1.3.5 and Epic had already ported several Unreal Engine games to Linux platforms via SDL.

    There was reason to think that Unreal would be coming to WebOS, whether some of our resident haters knew about it or not.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Actually, some people speculated that WebOS would be the platform mentioned because the WebOS Internals groups had just discovered the SDL libraries in 1.3.5 and Epic had already ported several Unreal Engine games to Linux platforms via SDL.

    There was reason to think that Unreal would be coming to WebOS, whether some of our resident haters knew about it or not.
    This is what I'm talking. Certain people knew that the possibility was there. However, some (jhoff) continue to insist that "there was no literally no chance".

    Again, all I asked for is how did Jhoff and Mikah know that there was literally no chance that Unreal would come to webOS. I mean your comment above shows that the WebOS Internals groups knew that the framework was there.

    How come some felt that there was literally no chance? What did they know that other didn't? At least now we know that the Pre is as capable as the 3GS. We didn't know that before b/c the spec surely didn't tell us that. [/sarcasm/]
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by playboy View Post
    This is what I'm talking. Certain people knew that the possibility was there. However, some (jhoff) continue to insist that "there was no literally no chance".

    Again, all I asked for is how did Jhoff and Mikah know that there was literally no chance that Unreal would come to webOS. I mean your comment above shows that the WebOS Internals groups knew that the framework was there.

    How come some felt that there was literally no chance? What did they know that other didn't? At least now we know that the Pre is as capable as the 3GS. We didn't know that before b/c the spec surely didn't tell us that. [/sarcasm/]
    Oh, yeah, a big company such as Epic, is going to use unauthorized access to build an application that would never get approved by Palm. Let's be a little realistic. They didn't have the PDK, and they weren't referring to webOS as being the platform that they were bringing Unreal Engine to at the time.

    I didn't say that the only reason we know that the Pre is as powerful is because of this. I said it continues to show that the Pre is as powerful. I love my Pre, and wouldn't switch to another device after using webOS, so if you think I hate Palm you're barking up the wrong tree entirely. The point is, that Palm has an image problem in the general populace. It's a great device, but nobody thinks it is, and nobody knows about it. It needs superficial wins like these to drum up some interest, unfortunately. Check some of the Engadget comments to the webOS Unreal article if you need proof of that.

    Anyway, I'm pretty much done with this line of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant now, so feel free to keep arguing about it, but whatever, I really just don't care if you think I'm wrong on it or not.

    The important thing is, now it's possible, which is great news, no matter how you look at it.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Actually, some people speculated that WebOS would be the platform mentioned because the WebOS Internals groups had just discovered the SDL libraries in 1.3.5 and Epic had already ported several Unreal Engine games to Linux platforms via SDL.

    There was reason to think that Unreal would be coming to WebOS, whether some of our resident haters knew about it or not.
    One last point, before I'm done. The rampant guessing here started December 22. We didn't get 1.3.5 for another week.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    Oh, yeah, a big company such as Epic, is going to use unauthorized access to build an application that would never get approved by Palm. Let's be a little realistic. They didn't have the PDK, and they weren't referring to webOS as being the platform that they were bringing Unreal Engine to at the time.

    I didn't say that the only reason we know that the Pre is as powerful is because of this. I said it continues to show that the Pre is as powerful. I love my Pre, and wouldn't switch to another device after using webOS, so if you think I hate Palm you're barking up the wrong tree entirely. The point is, that Palm has an image problem in the general populace. It's a great device, but nobody thinks it is, and nobody knows about it. It needs superficial wins like these to drum up some interest, unfortunately. Check some of the Engadget comments to the webOS Unreal article if you need proof of that.

    Anyway, I'm pretty much done with this line of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant now, so feel free to keep arguing about it, but whatever, I really just don't care if you think I'm wrong on it or not.

    The important thing is, now it's possible, which is great news, no matter how you look at it.
    Hey man, no worries. My point still wasn't answered but that's ok. I never said that you were a Palm hater. I never said Epic would create unauthorized access to build an application. None of us know if Epic had access to the PDK but I'm willing to bet that they did have access.

    It is possible. Ok, we know that. But it was only several months ago when you thought that "there was literally no chance". For some reason you thought it was impossible but now you're all like it is possible. I just don't understand. But that's ok we don't need any clarification.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  15. #55  
    I don't know if you noticed, but Palm has done quite a bit in those "several months" to make things possible that weren't possible before then. Really, I don't know how much more clearly it can be said. At the time of the initial rumor, there was no evidence this would happen. There was no support for SDL libraries in public versions of webOS yet. Epic, not having been a early access partner at the time, didn't have the PDK or anything in advance that would indicate that it'd even be a possibility. They knew what we knew, that the plan at the time was to continue with Mojo being the sole avenue of development.

    If you don't believe it by my saying it, check out Engadget's post where they mention that it "apparently took a couple weeks to port over to the platform using that fancy new PDK". In other words, this hasn't been taking the 3 months since then to be relased; they had no plans, no advance knowledge, or anything of the sort at the time the rumor started.

    To simplify, without the PDK, it would be absolutely impossible for them to release an Unreal Engine port. There was no way to do it using Mojo. There were no SDL libraries at the time. It was impossible then.

    Now, as I said, the length of this discussion is going way past my interest in it, so if you want to think they had the capability for this back in December and just chose not to announce it, despite it only taking a couple of weeks to port, then go ahead and keep thinking that.
  16. #56  
    To us, there was no chance of the UE3 coming out before 1.3.5 was released. The GPU was a room with no door.

    After we found out that the GPU was accessible in 1.3.5, I say the chances of UE3 coming out for Palm Pre at CES went way up. Access to the GPU in 1.3.5 implied that Palm was working on something. iPhone and Palm Pre are like fraternal twins. I could have easily seen UE3 being used for the Palm Pre.

    When we found out about the PDK, I knew it was only a matter of time before UE3 came to the Palm Pre. Easy porting, big win.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I don't know if you noticed, but Palm has done quite a bit in those "several months" to make things possible that weren't possible before then. Really, I don't know how much more clearly it can be said. At the time of the initial rumor, there was no evidence this would happen. There was no support for SDL libraries in public versions of webOS yet. Epic, not having been a early access partner at the time, didn't have the PDK or anything in advance that would indicate that it'd even be a possibility. They knew what we knew, that the plan at the time was to continue with Mojo being the sole avenue of development.

    If you don't believe it by my saying it, check out Engadget's post where they mention that it "apparently took a couple weeks to port over to the platform using that fancy new PDK". In other words, this hasn't been taking the 3 months since then to be relased; they had no plans, no advance knowledge, or anything of the sort at the time the rumor started.

    To simplify, without the PDK, it would be absolutely impossible for them to release an Unreal Engine port. There was no way to do it using Mojo. There were no SDL libraries at the time. It was impossible then.

    Now, as I said, the length of this discussion is going way past my interest in it, so if you want to think they had the capability for this back in December and just chose not to announce it, despite it only taking a couple of weeks to port, then go ahead and keep thinking that.
    God bless you for keeping at it, brother. But there's no point. There's always a chance! You could turn into a dragon. Pigs could fly. We might just be made out of tiny pizza rolls hidden inside microscopic cells. You just never know anything for certain, right? That's why they call it the "theory" of evolution, isn't it?
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Pardon me?? I don't recall any disagreement between you and I where you ever stated you were wrong.

    I'm not going to go looking, but if you can provide a quote for me, I'll be happy to retract (and no, I won't pull a now-too-familiar slimeaway of "now your just nitpicking"). Seriously, I don't ever recall you ever admitting you were wrong about anything.
    http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ml#post2135430

    "I don't think I was particularly harsh on the NFS vid, but I'm more than prepared to eat crow about Rubinstein's comments on the developer call and how it SEEMED to indicate to me that this stuff wasn't a priority.

    I was wrong, wrong, wrong. Exciting address thus far. Still haven't announced what I am waiting for, but still great."
  19. #59  
    Herbie, I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that it took you exactly two hours yesterday to enter this thread, jump on the severely anti-rational "Eat crow, and admit you were wrong!" bandwagon, and start a-ranting and thanking everyone taking a shot at me.

    But now that I've brought up something for you to recant, you're nowhere to be found ten hours later, even though you've visited this forum at least twice since I've posted it.

    Good to know you're a man of your word, walking it like you talk it.

    Meanwhile, not only has Joe shown (by your own admission) that they were NOT talking about WebOS as "that other platform" at CES, but he (and this very site's home page) also substantiated my position that without the PDK (which was not in existence to anyone's knowledge at the time), it would've been impossible to bring this over to WebOS. Impossible is merely another way of saying something has a zero chance of happening, but why stop to think when we can gloat?

    In fact, where is everybody else from yesterday wanted to brag?

    Meanwhile, I'll be looking forward to how you reconcile me going out of my way to say - without being prompted by anyone - that I was not only wrong, but happy and excited about a recent move Palm made with this absurd narrative you've spun about me hating my device and the company and spreading doom and gloom around this forum.

    This should be great.
  20. #60  
    Mikah and JH, again it is fine for you all to say 'at that time we didn't know that the PDK existed so we were right in saying zero chance'. And as one of the previous posters mentioned, the WebOs Internal guys saw the code in 1.3.5 for SDL. At that time no one outside of Palm or their partners knew about the PDK but it was clear that the possibility was there? Yet in Dec you posted in this thread and said zero chance even though the Internal guys discovered something.

    But now you're making excuses b/c at the time you made your proclamations there was no sort of reasoning, such as the hardware can't handle it, Palm doesn't have the know how or developers will not make Iphone like games for webOS for your responses. I think that at the time your hate or dislike was showing.


    Instead your claims were pretty baseless. Neither of you even in your responses said anything like Palm maybe working on something we don't know about but I still doubt it b/c of whatever. Responses were just it won't happen.

    Now both of you want to back track without back tracking. Your claims were baseless and both of you know it. No worries.
    Last edited by playboy; 03/12/2010 at 07:10 AM.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
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