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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I don't know if that's been the stated point of this discussion--it's seemed more like it's been about whether or not Palm said the other day that they _won't_ be providing them.
    ...
    I base that "heart of the discussion" comment more on the title of the thread, than the OP.

    The title is Do native apps matter to you at all?. I dislike absolutes (such as "at all") - For instance, I'd really like a sling client for my Pre, but I don't know that it'll happen without running as a native app.

    However, barring a very few examples such as that, if the WebOS APIs can be expanded enough to allow access to the mic, access to the camera, access to the GPU (and there's no real reason to believe they can't be), then no, I really don't have much use for native apps.

    If they can't be, or more importantly, won't be, then yes, personally I do have a desire for more native apps.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I hope they aren't stalling or waiting for Flash, etc. The difference between real CEO's and techies is that real CEO's don't bet their one-product company while waiting on potential vaporware. That would be unfathomable.
    I don't think any of the things I suggested are vaporware at this point. If I'm not mistaken, they all exist in actual running (if beta) form. We've actually seen Flash running on the Pre already, and Palm seems to have brought on the talent necessary to make CSS 3D and WebGL run on WebOS.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sticking with a dying platform. The details are probably not relevant to this thread, but if you'd like to start a new one, I'll be happy to share my thoughts there.
    Please share it here. It's your favorite cop out and I'm interested in finally hearing what you mean by it.

    Technically, sure, Palm OS was on its last legs, no one is disputing that. But you bring this up every time we discuss Palm moving away from business focus to consumer one, so it appears that you're using the "dying platform" argument to justify doing away with business focus. In other words, you are using the technical justification to explain the business strategy of moving away from PIM.

    Why don't you clear this up for once?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I base that "heart of the discussion" comment more on the title of the thread, than the OP.

    The title is Do native apps matter to you at all?. I dislike absolutes (such as "at all") - For instance, I'd really like a sling client for my Pre, but I don't know that it'll happen without running as a native app.

    However, barring a very few examples such as that, if the WebOS APIs can be expanded enough to allow access to the mic, access to the camera, access to the GPU (and there's no real reason to believe they can't be), then no, I really don't have much use for native apps.

    If they can't be, or more importantly, won't be, then yes, personally I do have a desire for more native apps.
    Given that Palm is using them for the own current apps (mic, camera), one would hope that Palm would formalize and publish the interfaces for that hardware.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The iPhone OS App Store, and any exclusive app catalog for that matter, is a great equalizer among large and small developers. I'm sure most of you read about how Tapulous is selling close to $1M worth of apps per month with 20 programmers. The point is that you don't have to be an Electronic Arts or have a name brand title to be a success in the App Store. You just have to have a truly awesome app.

    Regarding Objective C - it's not the easiest language to learn. However, it's unbelievably robust, well-documented, and supported to the hilt with all sorts of SDK tools. If you're going to be a smartphone developer, however, what are your options in terms of making an investment in time and effort?

    Blackberry? OK, but you're probably going to target the non Storm2 devices else you miss the vast majority of them.

    Windows Phones? Some hardware out there but not a lot going on right now and the platform will change soon.

    Android? There's some potential there but I hear the development market is kind of a zoo right now.

    webOS? 7% marketshare. Your guess is as good as mine whether it's going up or down. I'm still looking to see my second one in the wild.
    the iPhone developers can thank the engineers at NeXT for working on that years ago, which of course would later evolve into what is known as OS X. From the friends that are doing it, Android development is easier than BB. Kinda surprised Windows Mobile is doing as badly as it is....developing for it didn't seem to be difficult using .NET.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Please share it here. It's your favorite cop out and I'm interested in finally hearing what you mean by it.

    Technically, sure, Palm OS was on its last legs, no one is disputing that. But you bring this up every time we discuss Palm moving away from business focus to consumer one, so it appears that you're using the "dying platform" argument to justify doing away with business focus. In other words, you are using the technical justification to explain the business strategy of moving away from PIM.

    Why don't you clear this up for once?
    This is really one of your more nonsensical posts. Let me break it down for you:

    "It's your favorite cop out"
    Isn't it interesting that you have "reasons", and mine are "cop outs". And then you want to have a reasoned discussion. That's really probably as far as I should go. Probably when on acts like a donkey's rear, they should be treated as one, but I'll humor you.

    "you bring this up every time we discuss ..."
    Nah, not so much. I usually bring it up when you start in about Palm should have continued doing what they were doing (as we both did in this thread)

    "dying platform" argument to justify doing away with business focus"
    I'll never figure out how you reach the conclusions you reach, but that's totally backwards from my thinking, and totally backwards from what I've said.

    I'll spell it out for you. Palm went from a business focus to a consumer focus because the business focus was losing for them. RIM did it better (through back end server advances), and Palm ignored the fact that businesses were leaving them (they didn't leave business).

    They ignored it in the early stages when they could have done the backend server technology, and some third party developers successfully did an end-run around them (Intellisync/Nokia and NotifyLink come to mind). Ironically, NotifyLink (partnered with Novell at the time) gave me my first Treo. That's how early they got in that game, and are still at it. Personally, I think that bus is long gone, and even RIM is going to fall away to EAS, but that's an entirely different off-topic thread (that you would probably misunderstand/misconstrue as well...)

    In the later stages, they played around with trying to capture the consumer market based on a business phone (the Centro) while trying to beef up their hardware on a different OS (the Treo Pro). I suspect though, that by then, they already knew they were going to have to do a major overhaul of their focus, from business to consumer.

    So, to summarily disabuse you of your little misconception, my view is that it was the business focus that was dying for Palm, and the platform had to go if they were going to change to a consumer focus.

    "In other words, you are using the technical justification to explain the business strategy of moving away from PIM. "
    This is my favorite of all of your "misunderstandings". First of all, I'm not using a technical justification for any of this. Secondly, I don't think Palm's moved away from a focus on PIM is recent, and certainly it was not new with the Pre.

    When Palm released OS5 in 2002, the focus had already shifted from PIM to other more "consumer oriented" areas. The web browser was added, support for higher resolution screens and camera support. None of these things were PIM related. As a matter of fact, the primary PIM related thing that Palm did about that time was license a light version of DateBk3 (I think it was 3, it's been a while, and I think maybe Palm just inherited it from Handspring). What I'm saying is that Palm had already pretty much abandoned it's PIM development.

    So, Palm had missed the new business paradigm, and the only thing that they really had a shot at getting back into before they went completely under was the consumer market. That meant that no matter how "efficient" it was, no matter how "snappy", no matter how much the "I never want to leave" crowd loved it, this was going to have to go:


    I realize you think little of the animations, the big buttons, and all the other "eye-candy" that WebOS brought with it, but that was what Palm's new target, consumers, wanted; or at a minimum, what Palm thought they wanted.

    So, to accomplish that, they came up with a completely new OS. As part of that, they wanted to control the look and feel to some degree, and the way software was developed and implemented. To that end, they decided that an HTML/CSS/Javascript platform would be their future.

    Now, six months into it, Rubenstein has stated that they plan on continuing with that plan.

    I don't have a problem with it. Sorry you do, but please, don't "summarize" for me, when it's obvious you don't understand my view (and just as obvious that you tend to make that mistake with others as well).
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  7.    #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Let's see, you put me on your ignore list, and made quite a production of it when you did so, then quietly took me off. Now that you can see my posts again, you don't like them so encourage others to ignore me. I think maybe you have some issues...
    Projection is a helluva psychological condition.

    However, I can understand your desire to have your false information ignored, it's probably a little embarassing.

    You may think the notion that it's Palm's intention to to keep apps "primitive, simple, and running in a WebOS emulator" is valid; you may even find some folks that agree with you; however, I do not. Not only that, the notion that the apps are running in an emulator is 100% false. You can't make a true case when it's based on a falsehoods.
    Since you're actually mentioning something relevant to the discussion, I guess I stop laughing at you long enough to answer.

    Nothing false, much less "100% false" about what I said. What's the practical difference between apps running on the Pre with no access to sounds, microphone, camera, or GPU and apps running on a WebOS emulator?

    ....

    However, even the first part I don't agree with. I don't think for a moment that Palm's intention is to keep apps "simple" or "primitive". And, there was nothing in Ruby's comments to indicate that.

    Possibly those of you that believe that it is Palm's intention to keep apps "primitve and simple" can explain Palm hiring Matthew Tippett. It would hardly seem consistent to bring in a Linux engineer whose expertise is graphics chips when they want to keep apps "primitive and simple".

    http://www.precentral.net/palm-grabs...him-work-webos

    Now, how about another possibility. How about they brought him in to beef up the API? If so, they would be able to maintain Ruby's stated desire to "adopt and integrate new industry technology standards faster than competitors".
    What's the new technology standard in writing drivers for the chipset they already use? That's called catching up, something Palm is doing way too much of already.

    In fact...let's look at that Rubinstein quote you brought up and smell the progress achieved:

    These advantages include our ability to drive hardware and software developer at a fast pace
    Development pace is glacial compared to the first seven months of Android or Apple.

    and one which we determine, adopt and integrate new industry technology standards faster than competitors,
    Must still be at the determining stage.

    offer customers and carriers a single, cohesive, and most-importantly, differentiated experience associated with our brand.
    Hmmm, completely different app store in every region, along with different internal and external hardware on each of the two WebOS devices (along with a different resolution, so while apps are easily scalable, games need to work on 2.6 inches at the very least). Very cohesive, that.

    And create a single, scalable platform for developers, with no fragmentation and no diverged interface to complicate app development and distribution.
    Hey, I definitely agree on the simplicity, hence me creating this thread and posing the titular question. With all due respect to the developers frequenting this forum and doing sterling work given the circumstances, I don't think "complication" has been an issue for WebOS.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nothing false, much less "100% false" about what I said. What's the practical difference between apps running on the Pre with no access to sounds, microphone, camera, or GPU and apps running on a WebOS emulator?
    Confused: are you saying that WebOS doesn't actually have access to anything on a physical device that it doesn't have access to on the emulator? Because that just seems kind of a silly assertion.

    Re: the rest of your post, I'm thinking that when Rubenstein said "...and one which we determine, adopt and integrate new industry technology standards faster than competitors..." do you think maybe he had something specific in mind? Because otherwise, he'd have to be simply a complete *****, and frankly the guy doesn't strike me as an *****.

    I say we do this: let's table this entire discussion until after CES. If nothing of interest or importance is revealed, then let's circle back and see how everyone feels at that point. Same thing if something very interesting, such as Flash, or CSS 3D, or WebGL, or even something crazy like the Unreal engine being ported to the Pre, is revealed, and then we'll do the same.

    Because if I'm not mistaken, any of those (except, ironically, the latter, since it'll be on the iPhone first) would represent Palm implementing a new technology standard before anyone else. And any or all of them would also answer the question of how Palm plans on making WebOS a viable platform for better performing and more robust applications.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    Nothing false, much less "100% false" about what I said. What's the practical difference between apps running on the Pre with no access to sounds, microphone, camera, or GPU and apps running on a WebOS emulator?
    ...
    What's the "practical" difference? I'll try to keep it simple for you. One involves using an emulator, and one doesn't.
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Palm went from a business focus to a consumer focus because the business focus was losing for them. RIM did it better (through back end server advances),
    and Palm ignored the fact that businesses were leaving them (they didn't leave business).

    They ignored it in the early stages when they could have done the backend server technology,
    and some third party developers successfully did an end-run around them (Intellisync/Nokia and NotifyLink come to mind).
    Ironically, NotifyLink (partnered with Novell at the time) gave me my first Treo. That's how early they got in that game, and are still at it.
    Personally, I think that bus is long gone, and even RIM is going to fall away to EAS, but that's an entirely different off-topic thread

    In the later stages, they played around with trying to capture the consumer market based on a business phone (the Centro) while trying to beef up their hardware on a different OS (the Treo Pro).
    I suspect though, that by then, they already knew they were going to have to do a major overhaul of their focus, from business to consumer.

    my view is that it was the business focus that was dying for Palm,
    and the platform had to go if they were going to change to a consumer focus.

    I don't think Palm's moved away from a focus on PIM is recent, and certainly it was not new with the Pre.

    When Palm released OS5 in 2002, the focus had already shifted from PIM to other more "consumer oriented" areas. The web browser was added, support for higher resolution screens and camera support.
    None of these things were PIM related. As a matter of fact, the primary PIM related thing that Palm did about that time was license a light version of DateBk3 (I think it was 3,
    it's been a while, and I think maybe Palm just inherited it from Handspring). What I'm saying is that Palm had already pretty much abandoned it's PIM development.
    And those additions were fine because they didn't take away anything from PIM. And really, that's my contention.
    That it wasn't necessary to dress up the calendar in slow and laggy animations, as well as strip down Memos and Tasks.

    So, Palm had missed the new business paradigm, and the only thing that they really had a shot at getting back into before they went completely under was the consumer market.
    That meant that no matter how "efficient" it was, no matter how "snappy", no matter how much the "I never want to leave" crowd loved it, this was going to have to go:
    The rationale for speed and efficiency was simply that this is a mobile device, and people on the go need quick access to their data.
    How has that need changed, did the iPhone bend the rules of space and time so quick access to data on the go has a different meaning now?

    I realize you think little of the animations, the big buttons, and all the other "eye-candy" that WebOS brought with it,
    but that was what Palm's new target, consumers, wanted; or at a minimum, what Palm thought they wanted
    What do they accomplish other than frustrate users with lags and delays entailed in every interaction?

    So, to accomplish that, they came up with a completely new OS. As part of that, they wanted to control the look and feel to some degree, and the way software was developed and implemented.
    To that end, they decided that an HTML/CSS/Javascript platform would be their future.
    Web technologies were chosen because mobile browsers reached viability, and they provided Palm with a layout engine and runtime out of the box. It was the easiest, least work intensive route Palm could take.

    The choice was not one of the best technology stack, just the most pragmatic given their situation. But with that choice there are limitations, animations are going to be slow and game development will be difficult. Yet Palm insists on pursuing these.

    And just as you think Palm escaped irrelevance in business applications, it is in the exact same spot in the consumer space. It's still just a client of other platforms, such as Google, Microsoft etc.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  11. Minsc's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Developers who know C++ want to code in C++. Believe me, I know a ton of them. And companies that have a large staff of C++ programmers and a C++ code library don't want to have to retrain or hire new staff, and throw away their existing libraries, just because JSJSJS $is$ &$quot$;$better$.&$quot$; $Even$ $if$ $that$ $were$ $true$.
    My point was that if you are a shop that's going to build a new enterprise app, you're probably not going to choose c++. Now, maybe you're just building an internal app for your company and the choice of technologies doesn't really matter, or as you say maybe you've got a veteran crew of c++ developers who refuse to learn a new technology stack. There's always exceptions, but everything being equal you're probably going to pick Java, .NET (C#), or maybe Ruby if you're building an enterprise app nowadays.


    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    JSJSJS $still$ $lacks$ $the$ $huge$ $library$ $of$ $code$ $available$ $for$ $both$ $C$++ $and$ $Java$. $Use$ $JS$ $and$ $you$'$re$ $coding$ $from$ $scratch$ $for$ $capabilities$ $you$ $can$ $buy$ ($or$ $get$ $free$) $for$ $more$ $established$ $languages$.
    I'm not sure specifically what libraries you're talking about... JSJSJS $has$ $a$ $ton$ $of$ $libraries$. ($webos$ $is$ $using$ $Prototype$, $for$ $example$) $Now$ $if$ $you$'$re$ $talking$ $about$ $the$ $enterprise$-$y$ $libraries$ $that$ $are$ $available$ $in$ $J2EE$ $and$ .$NET$ $applications$ $then$ $sure$, $but$ $those$ $aren$'$t$ $things$ $you$'$d$ $be$ $using$ $to$ $write$ $a$ $webos$ $app$ $anyway$.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    But my real point is with existing applications and companies, and the JSJSJS $proponents$ $here$ $are$ $either$ $ignoring$ $it$ $or$ $refusing$ $to$ $get$ $it$. $So$ $I$'$ll$ $make$ $it$ $simple$: There are tens of thousands of apps written in C++ and JAVA that are not, and never will be, available on the Pre because it can't run them, and it's not worth it to their developers to re-write them. Period.
    You can't just copy and paste a Java app and hope to make an Android app out of it. It's not that simple. The UI development is completely different (so you'd be writing that from scratch), secondly the libraries are different. Android does not support the same libraries as "Sun" Java - the apps are the same in syntax only. So while there might be a few cases where it would save you some time vs. re-writing in JSJSJS, $there$ $are$ $probably$ $many$ $more$ $where$ $it$'$s$ $a$ $wash$.

    EDIT: Speaking of porting apps, I think you could make a pretty decent argument that of all the mobile smartphone platforms out there (webos, Android, iPhone, Windows Mobile, Symbian), you would have the easiest time porting an existing (web) app to webos vs. porting another app to any other platform.
    Last edited by Minsc; 12/22/2009 at 08:04 PM.
  12.    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    What's the "practical" difference? I'll try to keep it simple for you. One involves using an emulator, and one doesn't.
    I misspoke completely. I meant the functional difference, not the practical one. Resume snark.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I misspoke completely. I meant the functional difference, not the practical one. Resume snark.
    Same difference, really.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  14.    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Confused: are you saying that WebOS doesn't actually have access to anything on a physical device that it doesn't have access to on the emulator? Because that just seems kind of a silly assertion.
    No. Obviously, apps use the GPS. Some use the accelerometer. They obviously use the CPU.

    What I am saying is that most of the Pre hardware is UNused by apps right now due to SDK limitations, just as it would be if you were running them on an emulator. Ares isn't going to change this. Palm making a lot more APIs available and usable will. But who knows when that will happen? After the App Catalog has 1,000 apps certainly. Will it be after there are 2,000? 5,000? When it's far too late? Is it there already?

    The interesting - and that's interesting, in a good way - thing is that people here interpret Rubinstein's comments through their own lens. That sparks discussion. Which is why I created this thread. Not to argue my perspective, per se, but to read others.

    Couldn't be clearer about that when I ended my first post with "Genuinely interested to know what everyone here thinks... "

    That's why hparsons' attacks on me are so silly and irrelevant. Thread's not about me or my opinions or even my "premise". Everybody gets that but him.

    Re: the rest of your post, I'm thinking that when Rubenstein said "...and one which we determine, adopt and integrate new industry technology standards faster than competitors..." do you think maybe he had something specific in mind? Because otherwise, he'd have to be simply a complete *****, and frankly the guy doesn't strike me as an *****.
    *****, no? I'm sure Palm has lots of things "in mind", "planned" or "in the works". That some of them are still in that stage, almost 7 months later, is....unfortunate. Sad, really.

    I say we do this: let's table this entire discussion until after CES. If nothing of interest or importance is revealed, then let's circle back and see how everyone feels at that point. Same thing if something very interesting, such as Flash, or CSS 3D, or WebGL, or even something crazy like the Unreal engine being ported to the Pre, is revealed, and then we'll do the same.

    Because if I'm not mistaken, any of those (except, ironically, the latter, since it'll be on the iPhone first) would represent Palm implementing a new technology standard before anyone else. And any or all of them would also answer the question of how Palm plans on making WebOS a viable platform for better performing and more robust applications.
    Excellent suggestion, but Flash is being driven by Adobe across many platforms. IF WebOS were to get it slightly before Android or Blackberry, I'd think it more due to the fact that there are only two WebOS handsets from one manufacturer and OTA updates straight from the same manufacturer. And that's a beta. A BETA beta form of it already exists on the Hero.

    The same goes for WebGL, which will be a boon to WebKit browsers in general.

    CSS....could be interesting. But yes...let's table it for now.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    *****, no? I'm sure Palm has lots of things "in mind", "planned" or "in the works". That some of them are still in that stage, almost 7 months later, is....unfortunate. Sad, really.
    Really, that's sad? That a nascent platform hasn't been finalized in 7 months is sad to you? Unfortunate even? Your expectations are simply irrational at this point (or maybe they were when you first heard about the Pre). I'm sure Palm has ideas that won't be put into effect until years from now. That's the nature of the industry. No platform is perfect and they all continue to evolve, or they die. Palm could never reach the expectations of those of you who expected it to birth WebOS as a mature platform. That's just not possible.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Excellent suggestion, but Flash is being driven by Adobe across many platforms. IF WebOS were to get it slightly before Android or Blackberry, I'd think it more due to the fact that there are only two WebOS handsets from one manufacturer and OTA updates straight from the same manufacturer. And that's a beta. A BETA beta form of it already exists on the Hero.

    The same goes for WebGL, which will be a boon to WebKit browsers in general.

    CSS....could be interesting. But yes...let's table it for now.
    You minimize these things (which of course are entirely speculative on my part), but my point was to correlate with what Rubenstein said. That was, specifically, that Palm was trying to utilize new industry standards _before the competition_. Not that they'd be doing things that nobody else would ever do. And so, if Palm does announce any of these at CES, and implement them before other platforms, they'd have done exactly what they said they wanted to do.

    That said, I'll now follow my own advice and table the discussion.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And those additions were fine because they didn't take away anything from PIM. And really, that's my contention.
    That it wasn't necessary to dress up the calendar in slow and laggy animations, as well as strip down Memos and Tasks.
    The animations took nothing away. Nothing from nothing. There was no existing Pre PIM to take from.

    But you are sadly mistaken if you really believe those additions "didn't take anything from PIM". The did. Every new addition made the OS kludgier, and made the device crash more often than the previous. I was there watching it happen, and for much of the time saw the complaints right here on this forum (though it was Treo Central in those days).
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    The rationale for speed and efficiency was simply that this is a mobile device, and people on the go need quick access to their data.
    How has that need changed, did the iPhone bend the rules of space and time so quick access to data on the go has a different meaning now?
    Don't know that it has, but everything has trade offs. The bottom line is that folks weren't buying that device, and they are buying this one. Sorry, but I think Palm made the right decision, and glad they didn't consult with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    What do they accomplish other than frustrate users with lags and delays entailed in every interaction?
    Some are frustrated, some aren't. Doesn't make the decision right, nor wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Web technologies were chosen because mobile browsers reached viability, and they provided Palm with a layout engine and runtime out of the box. It was the easiest, least work intensive route Palm could take.
    Really, that's the reason? You're sure? I think I'm going to believe the folks at Palm when they talk about their rationale rather than "some guy on a forum"

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    The choice was not one of the best technology stack, just the most pragmatic given their situation. But with that choice there are limitations, animations are going to be slow and game development will be difficult. Yet Palm insists on pursuing these.
    I know you may find this hard to accept, but maybe they insist on doing so because they know something you don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And just as you think Palm escaped irrelevance in business applications, it is in the exact same spot in the consumer space. It's still just a client of other platforms, such as Google, Microsoft etc.
    Sorry, but that's not the case. They are losing less money now than they were before. They anticipate that they will be making money next year. "Gaining relevance" is merely a means to an end. The end, short term, is survival, long term is making money. They weren't doing either. Now they're at least doing one.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc View Post
    ...
    EDIT: Speaking of porting apps, I think you could make a pretty decent argument that of all the mobile smartphone platforms out there (webos, Android, iPhone, Windows Mobile, Symbian), you would have the easiest time porting an existing (web) app to webos vs. porting another app to any other platform.
    Within a few days of the Pre being released (it may have been as much as a month, but I don't think so) existing JSJSJS $apps$ $were$ $being$ $ported$ $over$.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I misspoke completely. I meant the functional difference, not the practical one. Resume snark.
    Same answer. One requires an emulator, one does not. And we can play this silly game as long as you'd like, but the fact is you said
    "the strategy is to bring app development to the masses...by keeping them primitive, simple, and running in a WebOS emulator"

    Not, "running in practically the same thing as an emulator", not "functionally the same as an emulator".

    The sad thing is, you keep trying to twist what you said - "oops" would just be so much easier.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    That's why hparsons' attacks on me are so silly and irrelevant. Thread's not about me or my opinions or even my "premise". Everybody gets that but him.
    ...
    Attacks??? Really? You consider pointing out an incorrect statement to be an attack. Sheesh guy, go back and look at the asinine statements you've made about me in this thread, then try to make a reasonable argument that I've somehow "attacked" you.

    I think it's funny you saying "everybody gets it but him", while you're explaining it to another person.

    No matter how you choose to stretch things, claiming that Palm's intention is to keep WebOS running in an emulator when it isn't is not a discussion, nor a basis for one.
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