Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 201
  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Since it's "Poke holes in hparsons' BS" day, I'll go ahead and tee off on this one too.
    ...
    If you're going to debate, debate the merits of that point instead of trying to discredit the messenger. I mean, why would you want to derail the discussion and go off on a tangent, right?

    Who would want to do that? Huh?
    Mikah, I'm going to say this again.
    You stated something that wasn't factual, and based the entire argument on that non-fact. You mentioned the merits of the debate, that's exactly what I did.
    Post #98
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    OK, here's what I think.
    The OP was wrong is his assessment. He concludes that the strategy consists of "keeping them primitive, simple, and running in a WebOS emulator" but offers absolutely nothing to back up that assessment.

    Further, one only has to look at his history of posts on here to see that he's no fan of Palm's current strategy. I would say his assessment is skewed.
    ...
    There was no attack there, nor was it name-calling. Yes, I referenced your previous posts, but said nothing more negative about them than that they show you're no fan of Palm's current strategy. I then said I believed your assessment is skewed (and I still believe that). Fact is, I started my response off with stating that it was "what I think".

    Then, your response along about post #104 (I've added some emphasis on certain sections)
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Apps that don't access the hardware are essentially disconnected from it, much like an app running in an emulator. Perhaps you read the front page article about the need for dev phones to get prominent developers more connected to said hardware?
    ...
    Yawn. Pot meet kettle. Only, instead of rehashing the same tired talking points like you, I created this thread explicitly to sit back and actually pay attention to what OTHER PEOPLE think. Crazy, huh?

    Anyway...I hope the discussion continues with adults interested with discussing and even disagreeing with my original post, instead of people like you engaging in repetitive personal attacks. Maybe you'll surprise me...
    So, was "rehashing the same tired talking points" an attack? Did I, or did I not, express what I think? Is it possible that you just didn't like what I thought?

    Then, you move on to the little nugget of about "adults interested with discussing and even disagreeing ... instead of people like you engaging in repetitive personal attacks".

    In other words, I'm not an adult - but I challenge you, find one single post from me in this thread up to that point that did anything to "attack" you.

    I would point out that there was one post filled with file name-calling from another user, but I can't refer you to that because the moderator delted it (with no complaint from me). It wasn't from me about about me. you didn't seem particularly bothered by that little display of adult activity. As a matter of fact, you later asserted that other than my posts, you were "loving" the thread.

    So please, spare my your self-righteous indignation. You weren't attacked, you weren't insulted, you just don't like being passionately disagreed with, and that's the bottom line.
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    ...you just don't like being passionately disagreed with, and that's the bottom line.
    Yes, that is _precisely_ the bottom line. If you attack Palm or the Pre, then you expect to get a pass on how negative you are, how much you're guilty of ad hominem, and in general how much you **** all over the forum in communicating your "opinion." One simply is not expected to disagree with those "opinions," and if one does then the mob is sure to pounce.

    If you support Palm, however, then not so much.

    It's really quite tiring. One of my New Year's resolutions will be to avoid such threads like the plague, which unfortunately will mean spending much less time on this forum. It really is degenerating into a place to complain about real or imagined faults with the platform rather than looking for solutions and sharing what one enjoys about it.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  3.    #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Mikah, I'm going to say this again.
    You stated something that wasn't factual, and based the entire argument on that non-fact.
    Say it until you're blue in the face. I neither stated it as fact, nor was it the basis for an argument. I stated an opinion, prefaced clear as day by the words SEEMS LIKE in order to identify it as such. THEN, I explicitly sought other people's opinions.

    You mentioned the merits of the debate, that's exactly what I did.

    There was no attack there, nor was it name-calling. Yes, I referenced your previous posts, but said nothing more negative about them than that they show you're no fan of Palm's current strategy. I then said I believed your assessment is skewed (and I still believe that). Fact is, I started my response off with stating that it was "what I think".
    But you didn't think, and you still aren't thinking. Whether I am "wrong" in my assessment or not is immaterial. I want to know YOUR take about what the WebOS landscape will look like going forward in light of Rubinstein's comments and Ares.

    Then, your response along about post #104 (I've added some emphasis on certain sections)

    So, was "rehashing the same tired talking points" an attack? Did I, or did I not, express what I think? Is it possible that you just didn't like what I thought?
    I was referring ONLY to the same canard I just debunked a post ago. How do we know that? Because before the section you quoted, I quoted YOU saying this:

    "Further, one only has to look at his history of posts on here to see that he's no fan of Palm's current strategy. I would say his assessment is skewed."

    That's all I quoted. Figures you would leave that out, but I like your predictability, personally.

    Then, you move on to the little nugget of about "adults interested with discussing and even disagreeing ... instead of people like you engaging in repetitive personal attacks".

    In other words, I'm not an adult - but I challenge you, find one single post from me in this thread up to that point that did anything to "attack" you.
    By referring to "my history of posts" - which you didn't even know! - the oft-repeated canard was the very definition of a personal attack. Then, and only then, did I engage you. I would've written my last post in response right then and there, but I knew there was still some life in the thread and I didn't want to help you derail it.

    If you want to be spared being made a fool of, then when you have the nerve in the future to bring up someone's "history of posts", perhaps you should read them yourself first. Then, read the definition of "seem". Finally, sit down and take a breather because that's a lot of learning for you in one day. Yep, that's an attack.
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    ...
    But you didn't think, and you still aren't thinking. Whether I am "wrong" in my assessment or not is immaterial. I want to know YOUR take about what the WebOS landscape will look like going forward in light of Rubinstein's comments and Ares.
    Mikah, the thread was full of my thoughts. Would you like me to list them for you? Whether or not you were wrong may not be important to you, but I was responding to another postor who quoted you, as if what you said was factual. Sorry you don't like it, but there was no attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I was referring ONLY to the same canard I just debunked a post ago. How do we know that? Because before the section you quoted, I quoted YOU saying this:

    "Further, one only has to look at his history of posts on here to see that he's no fan of Palm's current strategy. I would say his assessment is skewed."

    That's all I quoted. Figures you would leave that out, but I like your predictability, personally.
    But I didn't "leave that out". It's right up there, go look again. What is wrong in me saying that your posts show you're "no fan of Palm's current strategy"??

    Guy, I gotta say, your skin's pulled a little tight. You need to either loosen up, or get it thicker...


    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    By referring to "my history of posts" - which you didn't even know! - the oft-repeated canard was the very definition of a personal attack. Then, and only then, did I engage you. I would've written my last post in response right then and there, but I knew there was still some life in the thread and I didn't want to help you derail it.
    I want to make sure I understand this... referring folks to read what you've written before is "the very definition of a personal attack".

    Wow. Loop back to the thick skin recommendation.

    See, I have no problem with you referring to my previous posts. i don't consider it a personal attack, I consider it referencing what I've written, and thus possibly what I think.

    However, I do consider saying I don't think, implying I'm not an adult, calling one a fool, referencing "same old tired comments", yeah, those things I consider a personal attack. But I'm really not even complaining about them. I can handle them. However, as I said, spare me the self-righteous indignation.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    If you want to be spared being made a fool of, then when you have the nerve in the future to bring up someone's "history of posts", perhaps you should read them yourself first. Then, read the definition of "seem". Finally, sit down and take a breather because that's a lot of learning for you in one day. Yep, that's an attack.
    Well, if nothing else, at least you've come to the realization that you're personally attacking someone. That's a start... (but, it does sound like I've touched a nerve or two).
  5.    #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Yes, that is _precisely_ the bottom line. If you attack Palm or the Pre, then you expect to get a pass on how negative you are, how much you're guilty of ad hominem, and in general how much you **** all over the forum in communicating your "opinion." One simply is not expected to disagree with those "opinions," and if one does then the mob is sure to pounce.

    If you support Palm, however, then not so much.

    It's really quite tiring. One of my New Year's resolutions will be to avoid such threads like the plague, which unfortunately will mean spending much less time on this forum. It really is degenerating into a place to complain about real or imagined faults with the platform rather than looking for solutions and sharing what one enjoys about it.
    Sorry, but this is a wack copout.

    The last "attack the Pre/Palm" thread I participated in was one where I only complained about the misleading thread title and that it should be moved to the General Pre Complaints thread. I've debated at length with YOU, among others, about various aspects of the device and software platform, and not once have I done anything but WELCOME you passionately disagreeing with me (Actual debate is fun...and quite the time-passer when you're in the office and between assignments).

    There's no conspiracy or group think going on. Just people with differing viewpoints.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    ...
    It's really quite tiring. One of my New Year's resolutions will be to avoid such threads like the plague, which unfortunately will mean spending much less time on this forum. It really is degenerating into a place to complain about real or imagined faults with the platform rather than looking for solutions and sharing what one enjoys about it.
    Seriously man, don't do that. It comes and goes (though lately it seems to have stayed longer, and left less).

    Actually, recently it seems there's been a lot less of the nonsense. Then it picked up some but not nearly as bad as before.

    We still need a little of the (current) miniority mob to help fight off the riff-raff (whoever they may be... not naming name... don't want to be accused of attacking anyone...)
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Sorry, but this is a wack copout.

    The last "attack the Pre/Palm" thread I participated in was one where I only complained about the misleading thread title and that it should be moved to the General Pre Complaints thread. I've debated at length with YOU, among others, about various aspects of the device and software platform, and not once have I done anything but WELCOME you passionately disagreeing with me (Actual debate is fun...and quite the time-passer when you're in the office and between assignments).

    There's no conspiracy or group think going on. Just people with differing viewpoints.
    Maybe it's not so much a "copout", (waked or otherwise), but an honest assessment that he not only doesn't want himself personally attacked, but doesn't enjoy seeing anyone attacked.

    Think about it.
  8.    #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Mikah, the thread was full of my thoughts. Would you like me to list them for you? Whether or not you were wrong may not be important to you, but I was responding to another postor who quoted you, as if what you said was factual. Sorry you don't like it, but there was no attack.
    Implying that what I said is less relevant/believable/whatever because of "my history of posts" IS a personal attack. It's also wildly inaccurate. But why would you acknowledge that?

    But I didn't "leave that out". It's right up there, go look again. What is wrong in me saying that your posts show you're "no fan of Palm's current strategy"??
    Because my posts are more than one monolithic rant against Palm and their current strategy, something you still fail to realize. It's not even germane, but it's also wrong, as in not factually correct.

    Guy, I gotta say, your skin's pulled a little tight. You need to either loosen up, or get it thicker...
    Yawn.

    I want to make sure I understand this... referring folks to read what you've written before is "the very definition of a personal attack".
    Nope, you don't understand it. Beyond even the scope of this thread, you often tell others to "look at my posts, and you'll see why he is saying X critical of Palm." That you say it over and over toward me in particular indicates that it is personal. I consider it an attack, and a weak one at that. So much so that I've never really bothered to highlight how bogus it is until now.

    See, I have no problem with you referring to my previous posts. i don't consider it a personal attack, I consider it referencing what I've written, and thus possibly what I think.

    However, I do consider saying I don't think, implying I'm not an adult, calling one a fool, referencing "same old tired comments", yeah, those things I consider a personal attack. But I'm really not even complaining about them. I can handle them. However, as I said, spare me the self-righteous indignation.
    But you don't think. You don't seem like an adult. You do rehash the same old tired canard, even when it's debunked. I mean, if you can handle those comments, why reference them now? Hurt feelings?

    P.S. Look up "indignation" while you're at it.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Implying that what I said is less relevant/believable/whatever because of "my history of posts" IS a personal attack. It's also wildly inaccurate. But why would you acknowledge that?
    ...
    Sorry you see it that way. I saw it as supportive of my statement that you are not a fan of Palm's current strategy. I don't think you are.

    I more than once laid out why I thought your view was incorrect, and why I thought that Palm's on the right track.

    BTW, I "didn't acknowledge that" because I disagree with your assessment. Your posts do indeed indicate that you're not a fan of Palm's current strategy. What part of that is false?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Because my posts are more than one monolithic rant against Palm and their current strategy, something you still fail to realize. It's not even germane, but it's also wrong, as in not factually correct.
    But I never said anything remotely similar to your posts being "one monolitich rant against Palm and their current strategy". I did say "one only has to look at his history of posts on here to see that he's no fan of Palm's current strategy."

    Which part of that do you disagree with? Are you a fan of Palm's current strategy (I think not). If one looks at the history of your posts, can they see that (I think so).

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Nope, you don't understand it. Beyond even the scope of this thread, you often tell others to "look at my posts, and you'll see why he is saying X critical of Palm." That you say it over and over toward me in particular indicates that it is personal. I consider it an attack, and a weak one at that. So much so that I've never really bothered to highlight how bogus it is until now.
    Pointing out what someone has said, and then encouraging others to look for themselves may be personal, but it's hardly an attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    But you don't think. You don't seem like an adult. You do rehash the same old tired canard, even when it's debunked. I mean, if you can handle those comments, why reference them now? Hurt feelings?

    P.S. Look up "indignation" while you're at it.
    What was that you said - oh yeah "Yawn"
  10.    #190  
    Well, on your last sentence, we're agreed.

    Moving on.
  11. gbp
    gbp is offline
    gbp's Avatar
    Posts
    2,506 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,543 Global Posts
    #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    There's a curious lack of discussion in the actual forums here regarding the Palm call today, so I figured I'd kick it off.

    I found it curious that Jon Rubinstein anticipated "thousands" of apps on the way once the Early Developer limitations subside, but also announced NO plans in the near future to open up the SDK to access the hardware (Also means GPU support is likely a LOOOONG way off, but that's another discussion...)

    Couple that with the Ares unveiling, and it seems like the strategy is to bring app development to the masses...by keeping them primitive, simple, and running in a WebOS emulator.

    I'm sure volume can be generated this way, but can progress?

    Genuinely interested to know what everyone here thinks...
    wow , mikah and hparson cool it folks.

    mikah can you restate the original post by saying
    "There are no future plans to open up the SDK to access the hardware (Also means GPU support). But PALM wants masses to develop applications with the simple Ares platform which lacks many APIs. What do you guys think of it ?"

    This would have avoided the conversation to stay on course.

    Mikah, while your point is valid , it will make APP development a breeze for many. I guess the plan here is to show some numbers. Which will get some respect from the wall street analysts (who have no idea of the quality of APPS , just my opinion).

    But serious APIs related to video , mic and such are needed.
    Lack of video / voice recorder is killing me. I care less for the video recorder , but the missing voice recorder shows that PALM didn't care much for the needs of the users (like APPLE not giving the cut and paste).
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    wow , mikah and hparson cool it folks.

    mikah can you restate the original post by saying
    "There are no future plans to open up the SDK to access the hardware (Also means GPU support). But PALM wants masses to develop applications with the simple Ares platform which lacks many APIs. What do you guys think of it ?"
    Now see, that one I could go along with.

    So, the question then becomes, is it possible for Palm to develop API's that address those missing low level needs. Reading between the lines, I'd say that Rubenstein is hinting that Palm believes so, and is working that way. Further, Palm hiring Matthe Tippett seems to indicate that's where they're headed.

    If it is, and they pull it off, great. If not, then obviously they would have to do something else.

    I don't believe for a minute though, that Palm is planning on not going to address those needs. Hiring Tippett especially would make no sense if it was Palm's plan to leave applications "primitive and simple"

    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    ...But serious APIs related to video , mic and such are needed.
    Lack of video / voice recorder is killing me. I care less for the video recorder , but the missing voice recorder shows that PALM didn't care much for the needs of the users (like APPLE not giving the cut and paste).
    I'm not so sure that it was that Palm didn't care much for the needs of the users, I'm thinking it was more a need to place priorities elsewhere. From a personal perspective, I seriously miss that level of access. I spent a small fortune rigging my GoldWing up so I could put my Treo in a RAM holder, and voice dial numbers. as it is now, I can plug in the Pre, but can't answer calls with gloved hands, and can't make callse while riding.
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Now see, that one I could go along with.

    So, the question then becomes, is it possible for Palm to develop API's that address those missing low level needs. Reading between the lines, I'd say that Rubenstein is hinting that Palm believes so, and is working that way. Further, Palm hiring Matthe Tippett seems to indicate that's where they're headed....
    I still wonder why it took them a long time to hire someone like Tippett...does that mean that at some point Palm had no plans to provide lower level access and then recognized, belatedly, that developers et al needed this?

    Or is it simply a case of not being able to find the right person for a while?

    Seems like poor advance planning but at least it a fix is coming soon, hopefully.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    You've noticed that too? lol That's his M.O. Pick an irrelevant point, beat it to death along with some baiting to draw out a personal attack, and thread derailed. Chalk up another victory. Mods look other way.
    Okay. I know this isn't my issue, but to state that someone is baiting people to draw out a personal attack is taking a big leap. Personal attacks are infantile and requires an immature person for baiting to work. If that's his strategy and it's working, then people really need to think before they respond. Why fall for it?

    It's not personal; it's a phone; it's someone's opinion, based on their experience or expertise. There are some people who constantly rant, but this forum gives us the ability to filter out their posts.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    I still wonder why it took them a long time to hire someone like Tippett...does that mean that at some point Palm had no plans to provide lower level access and then recognized, belatedly, that developers et al needed this?

    Or is it simply a case of not being able to find the right person for a while?

    Seems like poor advance planning but at least it a fix is coming soon, hopefully.
    My suspicion is that they already had some GPU talent on board, but decided to beef it up some.
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by Really mobile View Post
    I still wonder why it took them a long time to hire someone like Tippett...does that mean that at some point Palm had no plans to provide lower level access and then recognized, belatedly, that developers et al needed this?

    Or is it simply a case of not being able to find the right person for a while?

    Seems like poor advance planning but at least it a fix is coming soon, hopefully.
    My take on it would be that they have now got to the stage in the development of the Pre (which was released earlier that they would have liked in order to start producing some income) at which they are ready to takle that area and so hired some expertise. The Pre/WEbOS is a work in progress.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I would point out that there was one post filled with file name-calling from another user, but I can't refer you to that because the moderator delted it (with no complaint from me). It wasn't from me about about me.
    Yeah, that poster was me, and I told you in the past you have a condesending tone about you. But, thats neither here nor there, I vented, and am fine. I also came to the conclusion, most of us, creep on here when we are bored. Which seems to be often. And probably the arguing keeps it interesting for all of us. Not to mention it's all the usual suspects. So in the end, it is what it is. I was at treo central for a long time, so I'd rather catch grief from some of you guys, then some of these clowns joining a week ago and calling people whiners while thinking by using preware they are actually hacking their phone. Plus it's Saturnalia, so we should all get along.
  18. #198  
    Also, I have a question. Kinda off topic, but so is this thread. If palm is opening up for other carriers as we speak, how much changing, if any, to webos does that entail? I'm asking because I have to wonder how much that effects us being on sprint. I mean, if a large portion of their programming time now goes into getting it ready for att, verizon, then less time goes into advancing us. Right?
  19. gbp
    gbp is offline
    gbp's Avatar
    Posts
    2,506 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,543 Global Posts
    #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    My take on it would be that they have now got to the stage in the development of the Pre (which was released earlier that they would have liked in order to start producing some income) at which they are ready to takle that area and so hired some expertise. The Pre/WEbOS is a work in progress.
    Agree,
    PALM need some money on the table. By selling Pre they are getting revenue ( they are not making enough is another story I don't want to get into).
    I am sure they will show some GPU related things come Jan 7th.
  20. #200  
    OP: "Do native apps matter to you at all?"

    Yes they matter most to me and its this area where I hope and expect to see vast improvement from Palm. I'm referencing native task, memo and calendar apps. I acknowledge that the OP was getting at SDK to access the hardware, but to literally answer the OP, yes native apps matter to me. By the way 3rd party apps that access native data such as task, calender and memo data are great solutions too but still lacking in the beta app store. I suspect that developers of more robust task, calender and memo apps , because of the current state of the SDK, do not have adequate access to this data and that's why the app offering in this area is so weak. (Fliq memo excepted). Maybe I'm wrong. Or else these developers simply don't trust WebOs to be successful enough to invest in these type of apps. Regardless, count me as one who is puzzled at Palm's post June progress on the SDK and by extension the apps that I describe as, "native."

    DISCLAIMER

    IF READING CRITICAL POSTS ABOUT PALM AND/OR WEBOS WHICH ARE, BY ANY MEASURE, LESS THAN LAUDATORY THUS CONSTITUTING AN OFFENSE TO THE READER AKIN TO AN INSULT TO HIS WIFE OR MOTHER, PLEASE PUT EEKINSMAN ON IGNORE AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES OR LEGAL THEORY SHALL EEKINSMAN, HIS FAMILY, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, LICENSEES, OR ASSIGNS, EITHER JOINTLY OR SEVERALY, BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PERSON FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR OTHER LOSS OF ANY KIND, RELATING TO YOUR FRAGILE, UNUSUAL, UNHEALTHY AND ODD PREDILECTION TO PROTECT PALM AND/OR WEBOS FROM NEGATIVE POSTS.

    TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY PRECENTRAL, THE WORDS AND CONTENT OF THIS POST, INCLUDING THOSE IN THIS DISCLAIMER, ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE A RANT AGAINST PALM AND/OR WEBOS AND DO NOT REFLECT THE POSTER’S HATRED FOR PALM.


    THE POSTER HEREBY DISCLAIMS AND DISAVOWS AND DOES NOT ENDORSE OR SPONSOR OR AGREE WITH SENSELESS THREADS AND POSTS INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, “‘I’M LEAVING FOR THE DROID’ ‘PALM SUCKS’ APPLE RULES’ THE PRE IS THE WORST PHONE EVER’ AND ALL OTHER OF SIMILAR ILK WHICH BY THEIR NATURE TREAT THE PALM PRE AS ANYTHING BUT PRECIOUS.
    Last edited by eekinsman; 12/24/2009 at 04:14 PM.
    PalmOS Treos: 90/300/600/650/700/755/launch day Pre minus/ Evo/Epic
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions