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  1. #41  
    The Droid is a landscape slider, which is a totally different engineering/mechanical device from a vertical slider.

    Total apple/orange comparison.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    The Droid is a landscape slider, which is a totally different engineering/mechanical device from a vertical slider.

    Total apple/orange comparison.
    I disagree. It would be more like a McIntosh Apples/Granny Smith Apples comparison.

    If anything a Portrait/vertical slider should be more solid simply due to basic design principles.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    I disagree. It would be more like a McIntosh Apples/Granny Smith Apples comparison.

    If anything a Portrait/vertical slider should be more solid simply due to basic design principles.
    What "basic design principles" negate the fact that the vertical slider has a far longer lever arm acting on it and far less lateral separation between the rails?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    What "basic design principles" negate the fact that the vertical slider has a far longer lever arm acting on it and far less lateral separation between the rails?
    I'm not sure how this matters. Either Palm implemented a good design poorly, or they implemented a poor design the best it could be done. Either way, Palm stuck the Pre with a bad slider mechanism. There is no way to spin this so that Palm is exonerated.
  5. #45  
    What's "bad" precisely about the Pre's slider mechanism?

    Does it have a high failure rate? Are Pre's snapping into two parts at the slider all over the place? Does the so called "Oreo effect" have a negative impact on the operation of the phone in any way?

    Or is it simply the fact that some people have taken a small amount of flex that is inherent to vertical sliders and obsessed over it to the point that it's suddenly a huge problem?
  6.    #46  
    OP here,

    Just went in to get my third Pre. What a cluster****. I sat there for an hour while they activated my new phone (fyi, i do it on my computer in 5 minutes tops). Then he gives me the phone and i get in my car. I'm checking it out and what do you know, its twisting like crazy. I go back in and explain and the guy says "yea the refurbs tend to have a little play on them." I explained I was in the 30 days and he said they screwed up and gave me a refurb by accident. So they bring out a new one 15 minutes later and activate it and what not. This time I sit down int he store and check it out. The new one is twisting even worse than the refurb! I go back and say lets try this again. The manager comes in and starts saying thats how its built and im saying that the demo model sitting 20 feet away doesnt do that and it been sitting there and been played with for months. So he gets another one and says its doing the same thing. I check it out, and it isnt... Turns out our ideas of "play" with the screen were different. After he saw what I was talking about he realized he could see the inside of the broken "new" one he gave me he decided the phone wasn't suitable. He even said "yea i wouldnt want a phone that did this either." So they gave me the sturdy one and here I am crossing my fingers hoping nothing happens to it this time. Ghost Armor is in the mail tho so hopefully this one will be alright. ****ing Palm...


    Oh, and if you want to get an idea of how poorly constructed the slider mechanism is, open the back of your phone and take the battery out and slide it. You can see the little things that hold onto the rails. Theyre tiny little metal pieces that really ought to be waaaaay more sturdy.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    What "basic design principles" negate the fact that the vertical slider has a far longer lever arm acting on it and far less lateral separation between the rails?
    Hmm... I think you just made my point?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Hmm... I think you just made my point?
    Hmm...I think I didn't.

    Those points (longer lever arm, less lateral separation between rails) are exactly why a portrait slider is significantly more difficult to engineer without having some degree of play. It could be engineered out, certainly, but the cure might be worse than the disease; weight, internal space, cost, etc.

    Personally, I think there was a high incidence of manufacturing problems with the rails early on in production. This seems to have been resolved with few reports of excessive twist in the newer phones. Unfortunately, if somebody gets one with a problem and starts down the road of exchanging phones, the odds are very high that the refurbs they get will be from early on in the production run and thus have a much better chance of having a problem.

    This is a common thing with all phone manufacturers, unfortunately. Phones that are returned are barely tested before being approved and sent back to suppliers to be used as refurbs. This is why you get people having to exchange three, four and five times. If the overall failure rate was anywhere near what that seems to indicate, Palm would already be out of business.

    Go to any phone specific forums and you'll see the same stories about having to exchange multiple phones for the same problems.
  9. #49  
    Those stories are far more frequent with the Pre.
    Walk into any Sprint store and they will readily confirm that.

    The only reason a landscape slider might be more stable would be if they took advantage of that extra lateral real estate and inserted additional rails.

    If both had two rails (one on each side) and given their current dimensions... the Pre should offer more stability than the Droid. More length along the vertical rails for multiple hinge points and less (but not too little) lateral distance between rails. Certainly if the portrait dimensions were much smaller it might lead to more instability but given the current dimensions of both phones (opened and closed) the Pre should be more stable.

    I haven't looked that closely at the Droid but if they were smart they would have at least 4 rails with that much lateral distance. This would lead to more stability imo.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Those stories are far more frequent with the Pre.
    Walk into any Sprint store and they will readily confirm that.
    You've canvassed enough Sprint stores to know this?

    The only reason a landscape slider might be more stable would be if they took advantage of that extra lateral real estate and inserted additional rails.

    If both had two rails (one on each side) and given their current dimensions... the Pre should offer more stability than the Droid. More length along the vertical rails for multiple hinge points and less (but not too little) lateral distance between rails. Certainly if the portrait dimensions were much smaller it might lead to more instability but given the current dimensions of both phones (opened and closed) the Pre should be more stable.
    Remind me not to hire you to design a sliding anything.

    It's impossible to continue this discussion without diagrams and force vectors and so forth, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    You've canvassed enough Sprint stores to know this?
    Certainly not. I'm sure the 6-7 stores (located in different regions no less) in which I have spoken to Sprint employees about the Pre are living in their own little "Pre Hell" and their experience is completely isolated to them...

    That along with the other blatant indicators.

    Quote Originally Posted by idontwan2know View Post
    Remind me not to hire you to design a sliding anything.

    It's impossible to continue this discussion without diagrams and force vectors and so forth, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
    Fair enough. It's a moot point, regardless. Bottom line is both could be done well, if designed properly.
  12.    #52  
    OP here,

    Well after getting my FIFTH Pre, it broke too. This was after I installed Ghost Armor because I thought it would be impossible for that many brand new phones to break, no one has luck that bad. Well I guess I did. I went to the Sprint store as soon as the screen stopped working, just like the last one, and traded that unreliable piece of **** for a Pixi. No more dealing with Pre's for me. The fact that they released such a horribly designed piece of hardware is mind boggling. The Pixi seems to be much better tho. Sure I dont have WiFi and I have a 2.0 MP camera, but hey at least the phone works...
  13. #53  
    don't jinx yourself. I was saying the same thing a week and a half ago. On my second pixi (speaker died)..... 6th pre is starting to scare me too, I can see inside it, it oreos so bad, but at least the screen didn't stop working ....yet
  14. #54  
    I know several people with Pres and we are all on our first one after months of use.

    I would like to say a special hello to all of the iPhone f*nb*ys posting to this site. It is funny how so many "former owners" of Palm Pre's love to post on this site. I couldn't care less about reading the forums of any former product that I owned.
  15. #55  
    well this pixi is flawless, that being said 2 of the pres were awesome, no problem what so ever ... till the speaker died. that ****ed me off cuz so many people i know its a hit or miss, either they are on their 1st pre or have had several. i wonder if its like gm paint jobs, gotta get one built on a tuesday or wed lol
    Palm prē-ist.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRob94 View Post
    I know several people with Pres and we are all on our first one after months of use.

    I would like to say a special hello to all of the iPhone f*nb*ys posting to this site. It is funny how so many "former owners" of Palm Pre's love to post on this site. I couldn't care less about reading the forums of any former product that I owned.
    It's not fare to call all of the former owners iPhone ******* or anything like that.

    Sure, there are a couple of folks whose sole purpose for posting is to tell us how much better their new phone is, or to repeat the same criticisms of Palm over and over again. I spotted two on my first day and put them on ignore. Makes reading much more pleasant.

    I think most of the former Pre owners are here because they liked a lot of things about their WebOS phones and recognize the potential, and are open to coming back if the software gets the upgrades they see as necessary and/or is put on a hardware platform they can live with.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post
    Those stories are far more frequent with the Pre.
    Walk into any Sprint store and they will readily confirm that.

    The only reason a landscape slider might be more stable would be if they took advantage of that extra lateral real estate and inserted additional rails.

    If both had two rails (one on each side) and given their current dimensions... the Pre should offer more stability than the Droid. More length along the vertical rails for multiple hinge points and less (but not too little) lateral distance between rails. Certainly if the portrait dimensions were much smaller it might lead to more instability but given the current dimensions of both phones (opened and closed) the Pre should be more stable.

    I haven't looked that closely at the Droid but if they were smart they would have at least 4 rails with that much lateral distance. This would lead to more stability imo.
    The Pre definately could use a more stable slider design. The Droid has a good design for slider but a keyboard that nobody wants to use. I just dont get how some Pre's like mine haven't had slider issues for half a year now, while other new ones start oreo right out of the box. It's strange.
  18. #58  
    I'm on my 2nd Pre, 1st one had the slider issue of completely shutting the Pre down. My 2nd Pre's microUSB door broke off (still have it) and now I have cracks right next to the door and they're spider webbing and moving up to the front screen. Sprint customer service had me bring it to 2 different repair stores and both managers said they only replace cracked Pres that have cracks at the center button, I'd have to pay a $100 deductible to get it repaired. I've never dropped it or anything, the build quality of the Pre sucks.
    Jimmie Geddes
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    #59  
    Some people have big problems, others don't. I haven't had a problem yet, (*knocks on wood*) and both love the Pre currently and love the possibilities with the Pre. It has amazing potential and I already enjoy it tons.
  20.    #60  
    After having the Pixi for a week or so i gotta say I love the phone and im glad i stuck with a WebOS phone because I love the platform. That said, I really wish the Pre was built better because I would love to have it over the Pixi. All in all, I'd say the Pre is a better phone, when it works the way its supposed to. The Pixi is sturdier and has a better keyboard, but is slower and has a smaller screen among other things, but its worked perfectly so far which is more important than anything else on these phones. My advice, just get a Pixi if you want a WebOS phone and dont want to find out how many Pres is takes before you get one that works (6 was my limit)...
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