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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by snoopgoat View Post
    I find myself using it at almost everyday. For example, I didn't know what tiger woods wife looked like, so when the news of him cheating popped up, I quickly whipped up my phone and 'Pictured-It'. Its a quite good for quick refrences
    So is Google.
  2. #22  
    As many have stated, there will be serious apps when there is a serious app store, and a serious SDK, and a serious uptick in WebOS device sales.

    The nonsense about 95% of all iPhone apps being crap is just that: crap. There are some truly amazing apps on the iPhone in all categories. To say otherwise is to just try and diminish the success of a paradigm shifting platform to make your platform of choice seem less pathetic. If all app stores suck, then yours isn't so bad.

    95% of all apps may seem useless to you. But someone else will find them valuable. Everyone has a different set of favorite apps. There has to be a critical mass of apps that can appeal to the widest possible audience. Everyone can find a hundred apps in the iPhone app store they like. That number grows by the minute. If you only have 600 apps to choose from, there is a poor chance of you finding serious apps. Besides, even if you did, you would probably run into an app limit.
  3. #23  
    And how long did it take Apple's App Store to get those useful apps? Beleive me, I understand the point. But the fact is, it does take time. It's not like all the decent iPhone apps landed the first 6 months.

    Granted, I wish companies would wait until they had all their ducks in a row regarding features before they released hardware. ex., Microsoft with the ZuneHD. Incredible hardware. But if there are no programs to utilyze that hardware, what's the point?

    Just have to hope future updates give us the features we want based on the potential of the hardware.

    That being said, the business model has changed. Companies are pushing out products based on the hardwares future features. Times, they are a changing.
  4. #24  
    I agree that the SDK enhancements and device sales will help drive the Palm app catalog. And I do think that saying that 95% of Apple's apps are crap is wrong.

    But in the case of Apple's app store, you do have a lot of really great apps. And then you have a lot of apps that try to copy that really great app. And then you have the apps that are a novelty. I have polled many of my iPhone friends, and the reality is that most of them only have 20 or so apps installed, and use 3-4 on a regular basis. The advantage that Apple has here is that with 100,000 apps, you have freedom of choice. A couple of my iPhone friends have some really unique apps installed that they use that I would imagine very few people would have a use for. But given the depth of the Apple app store, they found exactly what they needed.

    The Android platform is having it's own growing pains as well. Developers are lamenting over the fact that there are so many Android phone models on so many different carriers running different versions of the OS, it is becoming difficult to develop apps that are universally compatible, as one phone may be missing a feature, not have something enabled, have a different version of the home screen, etc. Also since Android offers so many apps for free, it is harder for developers to make any money on their creations.

    The Pre has almost everything I want right now. Give me a native video recorder, an Audible app, Slacker Radio, and a way to process credit card transactions (as well as a Quickbooks mobile app) and my world is complete.

    The bottom line is that each platform has something to offer. And what apps are available are a part of that equation. So to me, the Apple app catalog is 99% junk that I would hate to sort through becasue I just have no use for most of the apps out there...but at the end of the day that would be a nice problem to have, because at least I had that choice. I have no doubt that the 'good' apps are coming to the Pre...and I am willing to be patient because I strongly feel that that the WebOS interface is better than anything else out there right now.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    It takes hundreds of hours for a "serious" app and people want it for a few bucks. Selling only a thousand or two means that it would make more sense for the developer to spend that time working at McDonalds.
    If the topic is a serious question, and people are actually looking for an answer (and not just whining) ... then this is it. Serious software development takes serious time, and most of the early submissions are just doing the quick/easy thing to get started. Add to that there's a few important things missing from the SDK (sound and limited access to data to mention two).

    But you also have an issue that "serious" to one person is not important to others. The OP mentions a few things, most of which are changes to the OS and not really apps, and then a diabetic tracker (which apparently does exist) which 99% of the people couldn't care less about ... but apparently is "serious" to him. A tough market and risky to spend a lot of time developing a heavyweight app.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by JayVee View Post
    Really... And then what, he gets an e-beatdown? Truth of the matter is, the garbage being released to the catalogue is just that... garbage. Whether it originated in homebrew or not is irrelevant. A couple posts above there's a reply that has burned my *** since I started reading this forum, "well, there's patches for that". That's not an acceptable alternative for someone who knows what his phone is capable of and wishes Palm would exploit that. Very few Pre owners want to risk bricking their phone or losing their data in order to be able to see more apps on the launcher. TJ makes a valid point... If it ruffles some feathers, so be it; if the shoe fits...
    An "e-beatdown"....priceless.
  7. #27  
    I also must say the wiki app is pretty nice as well. That I do use.

    For homebrew I like some of their apps too.

    I just said Topple Maze, there is also WoWArmory, Soundboards for fun with others at work. There are some out there! They need to enable the GPU and get a new SDK out for 3D games though IMO.
  8. s219's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by JDGAFFLIN View Post
    And how long did it take Apple's App Store to get those useful apps? Beleive me, I understand the point. But the fact is, it does take time. It's not like all the decent iPhone apps landed the first 6 months.
    A defining difference is that Apple's SDK had important technologies from the beginning -- these were available to developers months before the App Store launched, and Apple itself was using the tools when the original iPhone debuted in 2007. As a result, some amazing apps were available for iPhone when the App Store first opened -- really, they were examples of what to expect in the future, and we didn't have to wait to see the potential.

    In contrast, Palm's SDK has some fundamental limitations and has not really advanced at all in 6+ months since release. It is simply not possible, now and for the foreseeable future, to do things on webOS that iPhone developers could do from the beginning. What you see now is representative of the state of the SDK from release up to the present.

    The importance of the SDK cannot be emphasized enough -- it's really the seed that fosters growth of the whole app economy on a platform. The explosive app growth on iPhone is a result of them having the right seeds from the start. The withering of apps we see on webOS is the result of a limited SDK that has not grown like it needs to.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by sacherjj View Post
    For me it is simple. Sales aren't as good as I expected, so I can't justify spending as much of my time on WebOS development right now. I'm still developing, but not pushing near as hard as I had been. I'm hoping eliminating the App Limit will change this, but apps aren't selling all that well.

    It takes hundreds of hours for a "serious" app and people want it for a few bucks. Selling only a thousand or two means that it would make more sense for the developer to spend that time working at McDonalds.

    This is sort of a chicken and egg problem.
    And you have one of the better games out there that has sold the most. I wonder how your revenue would be if you made it free and had ads. Note: your free version has 57,791 downloads, while your paid version has 4779 downloads. Would the ads on 60,000 installations equate to what you've made on the free version alone?

    I also think that for quality apps like yours, you could be charging more like $5.99 without impacting your volume much. There seems to be a significant barrier between download numbers between paid and free, but not much difference between $.99 and $5.99 apps. Would someone really not pay $5.99 if they are willing to pay $2.99?

    But the real issue is there just aren't enough payers yet. I hope that trend won't continue, but I wonder if ads are a good way to effectively increase the number of payers.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  10. #30  
    The problem is that Palm only supports canvas based games and there are no APIs released yet to make anything other then that so every app game or anything eles has to be made useing the canvas api. I,d like to take a little something off the games dev web site '
    webOS and Palm Mojo SDK development currently offers the basic elements you'll need to create games across many of the most popular categories. HTML, JavaScript, and CSS – the same core technologies that serve web developers so well and power the webOS user experience – are also suitable for creating a wide range of games: puzzles, word games, card and board games, innovative social games, and the list goes on – even simple arcade games.
    To complement these web technologies, the Palm Mojo™ SDK provides access – via JavaScript APIs – to a variety of device events and services you can use to build games.

    So, while the Mojo Framework does not currently support some types of games – most notably 3D and fast-paced arcade games – we expect you to produce great games from day one. Richer game experiences will become possible over time as web technologies mature and as Palm extends the capabilities of the Mojo SDK. We're going to watch to see what you develop, what you need, what works for you, and what doesn't work. To help us do that, we want you to talk to us about what you need to take your games to the next level.

    eough said.Also there seems to be alot of of programers at the dev web site that really arent sure what the community would like as far as apps go and what is considered a good app or a crapy one.What we should do is start a future apps thred in the forums
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    A defining difference is that Apple's SDK had important technologies from the beginning -- these were available to developers months before the App Store launched, and Apple itself was using the tools when the original iPhone debuted in 2007. As a result, some amazing apps were available for iPhone when the App Store first opened -- really, they were examples of what to expect in the future, and we didn't have to wait to see the potential.

    In contrast, Palm's SDK has some fundamental limitations and has not really advanced at all in 6+ months since release. It is simply not possible, now and for the foreseeable future, to do things on webOS that iPhone developers could do from the beginning. What you see now is representative of the state of the SDK from release up to the present.

    The importance of the SDK cannot be emphasized enough -- it's really the seed that fosters growth of the whole app economy on a platform. The explosive app growth on iPhone is a result of them having the right seeds from the start. The withering of apps we see on webOS is the result of a limited SDK that has not grown like it needs to.
    I cant agree more... And I believe this is why people arent buying... Although We know we dont have i phones u see the quality of Iphone apps and u look at ours and u say to yourself.. Why am I gonna pay 5 bucks for this app when the I phone has a way more visual appealing, more functional app with the same functions for cheaper or free... Although I love to support the developers because their trying... I cant force myself to buy an app that im barely gonna use or never use... Ill pay 5.99 for shazaam or something like that but I refuse to pay 5.99 for some app that is just mediocre.. It would have been nice for palm to release a SDK with important technologies from the beginning.. Now it seems like its not gonna be in the works anytime soon because they have the cloud issue.. Countless problems with 1.3.1 etc.. Sigh.. Im giving palm time though.. I really love the UI and Ive actually kept this phone for 6 months so that says alot for me...
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Frrrrunkis View Post
    What do you think 95% of the iPhone's App Store is made up of?
    Even if 95% of apps in the iPhone App store were useless or almost useless, that would still leave around 5000 useful iPhone apps which is about 10 times as many apps as the entire WebOS app store.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    In contrast, Palm's SDK has some fundamental limitations and has not really advanced at all in 6+ months since release. It is simply not possible, now and for the foreseeable future, to do things on webOS that iPhone developers could do from the beginning. What you see now is representative of the state of the SDK from release up to the present.

    The importance of the SDK cannot be emphasized enough -- it's really the seed that fosters growth of the whole app economy on a platform. The explosive app growth on iPhone is a result of them having the right seeds from the start. The withering of apps we see on webOS is the result of a limited SDK that has not grown like it needs to.
    This is the problem, indeed. But Palm should also be spending a lot of time on basic stability and usability of the OS and core apps. And people are clamoring for other "basic" functions like backup, voice dialing, video recording, graphics support, etc etc. A lot to do all at once, and it's all important.

    OTOH, for many of us, the Pre already does most of what we need pretty well, so anything more is a bonus. (It's true that I use Classic, patches and homebrew apps for some of this.) I am already content enough with the Pre that I can wait for most of the other stuff to develop, in time.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    And you have one of the better games out there that has sold the most. I wonder how your revenue would be if you made it free and had ads. Note: your free version has 57,791 downloads, while your paid version has 4779 downloads. Would the ads on 60,000 installations equate to what you've made on the free version alone?

    I also think that for quality apps like yours, you could be charging more like $5.99 without impacting your volume much. There seems to be a significant barrier between download numbers between paid and free, but not much difference between $.99 and $5.99 apps. Would someone really not pay $5.99 if they are willing to pay $2.99?
    It will be interesting to see if Wobble Words will do better at $2.99, coming from $4.99. People complained about Wobble Words price point initially and it seems like $2.99 is a pretty good spot for a quality game.

    I'm not sure how much I would get from advertising. Mainly I just hate to see it distracting the user from playing the game. They just want an escape and not be bugged. I think most would rather have it free and clear for $2.99.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    But the real issue is there just aren't enough payers yet. I hope that trend won't continue, but I wonder if ads are a good way to effectively increase the number of payers.
    I think this is it. Combined with the App Limit that will be gone soon. Hopefully we will see things pick up. I think ads do work with some types of apps, but not as well with most games.
    Last edited by sacherjj; 12/10/2009 at 02:58 PM.
    Your Pre wants Word Whirl from the App Catalog.

    It told me.
  15. #35  
    The problem is that the number of people buying apps is small, so the only choice is for developers to make apps with very large audiences, and most of these may fall in the useless category, but it turns out that these kind of apps sell more than useful ones.

    Another problem is the push for 99 cents pricing, users most get that with the current size of the App Catalog market it is not possible to sustain that price. Anything under $5 is a big loss for any developer right now. And if users don't accept that software has its costs then we may never see anything worthwhile being released. You may push ad supported software, but the truth is that an app sold 1000 times will still make more money than an ad supported app downloaded 50000 times.

    Then there is the other problek for which I am personally affected. That is developers duplicating each other's work. I mean why are there like 5 different solitaire apps? They all pretty much implement the same game with small differences, but the final result may be that the end user gets an app that is not fully developed due to the diluted market.

    And lastly most of the requested apps are not even possible to make at this moment. There is also a perception issue where the apps that are worth for one user are not worth it for another. Not everyone has the same tastes.
  16. #36  
    "And lastly most of the requested apps are not even possible to make at this moment"
    you right about that and that i think is the biggest problem its not the devs fault its palms for not give the devs what they need to make this sort of thing happen.Canvas style games are only going to go so far these days While im sure that once flash comes out they will have to release the apis for it and and at least open the gpu up b/c if they dont i think flash will run hella slow but who knows palm seems to do what they want
  17.    #37  
    Well that was interesting! All you guys are right. Its still a young platform, and for what it is, it does do well. Everything else is gravy for now. Time will be the true test.

    HOWEVER - I am one of those computer illiterate people who dont want to brick a phone, or have to worry about re doing everything everytime theres an update.

    To you HomeBrew geniuses out there - please give us a better PIM, bring that more apps per view thing out to the mainline, and please give us a defining splash page that shows us everything at a glance. We will support you!!
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    A defining difference is that Apple's SDK had important technologies from the beginning -- these were available to developers months before the App Store launched, and Apple itself was using the tools when the original iPhone debuted in 2007. As a result, some amazing apps were available for iPhone when the App Store first opened -- really, they were examples of what to expect in the future, and we didn't have to wait to see the potential.

    In contrast, Palm's SDK has some fundamental limitations and has not really advanced at all in 6+ months since release. It is simply not possible, now and for the foreseeable future, to do things on webOS that iPhone developers could do from the beginning. What you see now is representative of the state of the SDK from release up to the present.

    The importance of the SDK cannot be emphasized enough -- it's really the seed that fosters growth of the whole app economy on a platform. The explosive app growth on iPhone is a result of them having the right seeds from the start. The withering of apps we see on webOS is the result of a limited SDK that has not grown like it needs to.

    Great post. As an end user, it's easy to forget that the tools made available to the developers is at the end of the day, just as important as the hardware specs themselves.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by JayVee View Post
    Really... And then what, he gets an e-beatdown? Truth of the matter is, the garbage being released to the catalogue is just that... garbage. Whether it originated in homebrew or not is irrelevant. A couple posts above there's a reply that has burned my *** since I started reading this forum, "well, there's patches for that". That's not an acceptable alternative for someone who knows what his phone is capable of and wishes Palm would exploit that. Very few Pre owners want to risk bricking their phone or losing their data in order to be able to see more apps on the launcher. TJ makes a valid point... If it ruffles some feathers, so be it; if the shoe fits...
    just gave op a heads up is all lol.... I threatened no one . Ha ! Feeling a little defensive? Geez have a great day !!
    ĦṔ-ḶøØṫ-ŦḯØη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  20. #40  
    There is another element to consider: patience. Apple did not release their SDK for a whole year after the initial launch of the iPhone. People were angry and crying foul. The future of the iPhone was bleak in the eyes of many journalists. Apple made no friends by choosing to do web apps. But they held the course and did not rush out a half-baked SDK just to quiet the nay sayers. That may have been the decision that made the iPhone the unqualified success it is today.

    Palm seemed to be racing against the clock and, as a result, rushed almost every aspect of the project out the door before it was fully baked. The SDK is just another cautionary tale of what happens when products are rushed to market. At that point, they start to take on a life of their own and the company loses control of the message. Once that happens, it is so very hard to recover.
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