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  1. #41  
    But ultimately he was correct in his basic suppositions, if a bit over zealous.
  2. wicketr's Avatar
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    #42  
    iRiver Media Jukebox 12. Works flawlessly.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirlupkelly View Post
    IMNSHO Apple is doing this to keep competion against their precious iPhone from utilizing this. But again it is JMO
    About this, you are absolutely right. iTunes belongs to Apple. The store is available to everyone. The sync capabilities are specifically for Apples own devices. Epson's print drivers are not intended to work with Canon printers. Epson could put out software for photo editing and organizing that is ubiquitous, but their print drivers would still be proprietary. That is perfectly legitimate. Apple makes the best sync software on the market, IMNSHO. It is used to sell their devices. Naturally, they don't want anyone else sponging off of it.

    Even so, iTunes uses XML. It is about as open as you can get. Apple allows competitors to write hooks into the system so that all none DRM files are available to other software. Companies simply have to write the software. Palm did not want to write the software. They wanted iTunes, itself. They hacked the USB information to make iTunes think the Pre was an iPhone, then an iPod, then an iPod w/video, and so on. Everyone knew it was wrong. It became official when the USB-IF, the place Palm brought its case, said plainly that it was wrong.

    I don't know if I can "prove" BB didn't break any rules. That is a strange ask. I will just say that nowhere has it ever been suggested by Apple or tech writers that BB did anything wrong. It is well known that Apple makes iTunes information available to third-party software vendors. It is also well know that there is a limit to what Apple allows.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by krusenkevin View Post
    I don't think you implied anything, dandbj13, you SAID it outright. When someone uses the word "army" to describe us dumb ol' misinformed Palm users, it's a bit hard to back-pedal from that stance. I discount anyone who takes a staunch, self-righteous attitude -- I'm simply right and everyone else is wrong/misinformed -- like this. You lost any credibility with me from your first post.
    I explained what I meant, you can reject whatever you wish. Many Palm Pre users are among the most tech savvy in the market. Though the tools are simple, most iPhone users would not know how to jailbreak their phones. Pre users are doctoring up a storm and that says a lot about the knowledge level of the user base.

    Palm users in general are not in the army of the misinformed, only the militant, misinformed ones. There have been a few examples of those in this thread. They do not represent Palm well.

    I listen to the Palmcast every week. Sometimes even I can't keep up with the level of geekery and advanced tech and industry knowledge.
  5. #45  
    BB doesn't have a device that is trying to compete with iPhone. But again that is my opinion.

    Again every article including the articles on Apple's site says that they 'KILLED' the ability for Pre and will continue to do so. So my opinion is while Pre isn't trying to work with or write it like other companies ... Apple doesn't want it to work either. Otherwise we'd hear of meetings between Apple and Pre...Pre and Apple...etc.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirlupkelly View Post
    BB doesn't have a device that is trying to compete with iPhone. But again that is my opinion.

    Again every article including the articles on Apple's site says that they 'KILLED' the ability for Pre and will continue to do so. So my opinion is while Pre isn't trying to work with or write it like other companies ... Apple doesn't want it to work either. Otherwise we'd hear of meetings between Apple and Pre...Pre and Apple...etc.
    I really don't understand your reasoning. Apple "blocked" the Pre in the same way you might "block" a burglar from breaking and entering your house.

    Anyone can get an official tour of the White house. But just try getting in and going anywhere you like without official sanction. That is the kind of blocking Apple does. It is not specific to Palm. Palm is just the one who keeps forcing the lock.

    As BB not being a competitor; really? In truth, BB is Apple's only competitor. They are the market leader that Apple is trying to catch. Palm does not even exist as far as competition with the iPhone is concerned. It makes no business sense for Apple to give RIM a pass while snubbing Palm. RIM is following Apple's rules and Palm is not. It is no more complicated than that.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirlupkelly View Post
    Apple doesn't want it to work either. Otherwise we'd hear of meetings between Apple and Pre...Pre and Apple...etc.
    There does not need to be any meetings for Palm to access iTunes information for their devices. They already can. They just need to comply with the rules. They can do it anytime they want to.
  8. #48  
    What I don't understand is why this continues to be a problem. If Palm won't write the software, why haven't the developers done it. Palm may not have the largest developer community, but they have the most loyal and some of the most creative. I am truly surprised that there has not been some type of Homebrew BB style solution.
  9. #49  
    BFAER

    (swats) hates gnats
  10. #50  
    If you decide to respond with insults instead of reasoned arguments, you are acting in a way that will get your posts deleted. Consider this a warning. Don't want to big brother this thread, but I will....
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  11. dragbug's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I really don't understand your reasoning. Apple "blocked" the Pre in the same way you might "block" a burglar from breaking and entering your house.

    Anyone can get an official tour of the White house. But just try getting in and going anywhere you like without official sanction. That is the kind of blocking Apple does. It is not specific to Palm. Palm is just the one who keeps forcing the lock.
    I am still trying to figure out what Palm "hacked". First you say they hacked iTunes. I guess someone on the inside at Apple also works for Palm and "hacked" the source? Then you say that Palm "hacked" the USB...huh? So they launched something on my computer that hacked the USB on MY computer? Really?

    If you are going to seriously jump on people about the things they say then perhaps you should consider thinking before you speak. Palm didn't "hack" anything except thier own phone. All they did was change the Pre's identifier to trick Apples software into thinking it was an iPod or iPhone. Dishonest? Maybe since it's not legal to spoof the way they did but I would hardly call it hacking either. At least not in the sense you are trying to imply.
  12. #52  
    oh please, people. can we bury this ridiculous itunes syncing rubbish already?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by GenericMusings View Post
    But ultimately he was correct in his basic suppositions, if a bit over zealous.
    Perhaps. But as I'm sure you and others here know, more often than not it's not simply what you say but HOW you say it.
  14. s219's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    You should also be directing you anger toward Apple as well. I use three Blackberrys (a 9630 Tour an 8330 Curve and 8350i Curve) and on each one I am able to import my iTunes playlists directly to my phone. That's right, one of the options on the Blackberry Desktop allows you import from iTunes. And it mentions iTunes by name. I have loaded all the content off my video nano onto my Tour. Very seamless operation, but it does take some time (slow transfer speed). How do you know that RIM didn't do the same thing that Palm did? I can't see Apple licensing to one and not the other, unless they gave BB an exclusive, in which case Palm would be raising cain in the media about unfair practices.

    Thanks for clearly describing this like only a BB user could. RIM wrote their custom sync solution that uses the "sanctioned" iTunes library catalog to transfer music. Apple implemented this catalog so that third party apps and devices could interface with a user's iTunes library without having to depend on, spoof, or hack into the iTunes app itself. This is a perfect illustration of how it's supposed to work, and it's a pity Palm did not take the time to develop a similar solution. It's really not too hard to do.
  15. s219's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by ivhs72 View Post
    Where did you get your information that BB's software is in keeping with Apple's rules? I would be interested in knowing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgirlupkelly View Post
    So my opinion is while Pre isn't trying to work with or write it like other companies ... Apple doesn't want it to work either. Otherwise we'd hear of meetings between Apple and Pre...Pre and Apple...etc.

    Please read through Hunter's blog here, where he describes it pretty clearly:

    http://hunter.pairsite.com/blogs/20091004/

    The background info is correct -- Palm can use the XML catalog to develop a reliable sync solution anytime they want. This is the approach Apple encourages third parties to use, because it won't be dependent on the iTunes app supporting unknown hardware. It's how RIM does it.
  16. #56  
    That is an excellent article. Too bad there are many who just do not care about the facts or would rather distort them and wish them away. I get that no one wants to admit they have been fooled. No one wants to think that a company they believe in and have invested good money and good faith would behave in such a way.

    Palm forever lost me as a customer over this issue because the behavior is inexcusable. It is not that they didn't know any better. Not only did they know what they were doing, they dragged thousands of unsuspecting customers along for the ride. They never cared about syncing with iTunes as a feature for their customers.

    As it has been stated, they could have done that with no issues. All they wanted was the issue, not the solution. They made a lot of people believe that iTunes was being withheld from users of the Pre. A lot of people got worked up over it and Apple was painted as a bully while Palm sat back and laughed. So successful were they that many on this thread, when faced with the indisputable truth, still refuse to believe.

    Even now, there is a story on the front page of this site about Palm being sued over copyright infringement by another company. I almost always disregard these stories as an example of what is wrong with copyright law and the legal system. In this case, however, I can't give Palm the benefit of the doubt. They have demonstrably shown that they are exactly the type of company that would illegally use someone else's intellectual property and pretend innocence. I am convinced that this is why Palm is not making much headway or being taken as seriously as they might have been. Thing is, it never had to happen.
  17. #57  
    MediaMonkey free edition - it's great. Can do a complete file folder sync and works just like itunes. It's great!! recognizes the Pre too!
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