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  1. #41  
    Hey guys I just had this problem and Palm "Support Specialists" fixed it. My replacement Pre had OS1.1 on it and the set-up "erased" all the data when I logged into my profile. I called Sprint and was transferred to Palm at the 87-426-3777 number. The guy there had me go through the partial reset which does not work (obviously) - I called back this morning and spoke to another person and explained AGAIN what had happened. She checked with her supervisor and then transferred me to a "Palm Support Specialist" - this person knew the situation, asked me a few questions (no, I didn't back up recently...., yes, I am an *****....) but here's what she did to fix the situation -

    She logged into my Palm account using my own ID and password. She took the most recent file on the server and over wrote it with the data they had (she said it was something like 80kbs - and she then had me do a partial reset and relog it and whalah... I have everything back!!!

    So - it is fixable. It isn't that painful - except that Sprint/Palm don't seem to know that this is an issue so you need to push and push to get them the recognize what has happened and how to resolve it.

    I suspect this is not happening that much relatively speaking because it is not all that KNOWN on the hotlines. Anyhow... GOOD LUCK!
  2. wicketr's Avatar
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    #42  
    Let this be a warning to everyone out there that isn't syncing. Create a freaking GMail account for your contacts. Even if you don't use Gmail for email. Get an account for your contacts.

    This reminds me of people that don't backup their computers to an external HD and then blame the manufacturer for losing everything when their computer dies.

    If you don't backup your stuff, don't ****** when it abruptly disappears forever.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Some of you are really being unfair to this guy. He's ****ed off, and rightly so. Every other smartphone device would have had a local copy of his important data on his desktop machine, and he could have accessed it easily with the replacement device.

    It is Palm's fault for not defaulting people into a safe configuration for their data. You go to the Sprint store, they transfer your contacts, you think everything is hunky dory. You can't expect average users to know that that info is only stored on the phone and in an apparently unreliable backup system on Palm's servers. It's not Pyrex's fault that he was in this unsafe condition. Palm needs to either make their backup system reliable, or find a way to default users into a safe condition for their data (some other cloud storage). And they need to provide a way to backup your data to your local computer.

    If you're using the Pre for business, and you're not using one of the 3rd party sync solutions, and you're not using either EAS or a Google account for all your important information, you're on shaky ground. Palm needs to make people aware of that.
    There are ways to back it up. Most people that buy a smartphone know to back it up. this guy didn't. So he loses. He should be mad at himself. Here is the problem, guys like this expect everything to be done for them without any effort. You can't do that with technology. Palm's back up service is fine, and clear. Just you MIGHT have to read a PARAGRAPH on how to backup. I know that asks too much!! But it all works, just put the extra 10% of time upfront to save the 150% of effort later when you break your phone. It is not up to Palm to promote another 3rd Party site either. Why would they do that? Get serious.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by carlsenga View Post
    There are ways to back it up. Most people that buy a smartphone know to back it up. this guy didn't. So he loses. He should be mad at himself. Here is the problem, guys like this expect everything to be done for them without any effort. You can't do that with technology. Palm's back up service is fine, and clear. Just you MIGHT have to read a PARAGRAPH on how to backup. I know that asks too much!! But it all works, just put the extra 10% of time upfront to save the 150% of effort later when you break your phone. It is not up to Palm to promote another 3rd Party site either. Why would they do that? Get serious.
    Dude, he did use the backup system supplied by Palm. It is unreliable, and many people have said so. And once you have your contact data in your Palm profile, there is no easy way for average users to get it somewhere else if it didn't exist there already. You have to gain root access and copy off the Palmdatabase.db3 file one way or another. This is not a user problem, it's a Palm problem, and it's happening pretty frequently. It absolutely can be fixed by technology, and that fairly simply on Palm's servers. But they haven't fixed the problem, and average users who replace their phones are, in fact, being failed by Palm.

    Look, I love Palm, and I love the Pre, but this issue needs to be fixed. The default storage for contacts is not reliable, even with the default backup solution.
    Palm III-->Handspring Visor-->Sony Clie PEG-NR70-->no PDA -->Palm Treo 755p-->Palm Pre-->HP Veer
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by carlsenga View Post
    There are ways to back it up. Most people that buy a smartphone know to back it up. this guy didn't. So he loses. He should be mad at himself. Here is the problem, guys like this expect everything to be done for them without any effort. You can't do that with technology. Palm's back up service is fine, and clear. Just you MIGHT have to read a PARAGRAPH on how to backup. I know that asks too much!! But it all works, just put the extra 10% of time upfront to save the 150% of effort later when you break your phone. It is not up to Palm to promote another 3rd Party site either. Why would they do that? Get serious.
    I don't think that is a fair assessment. While I would assume that most people that have a large number of contacts (500+ contacts) keep them somewhere other than just a phone (i.e. their Address Book program on their PC or Mac), that is not always the case. Whatever personal backup habits any of us may have, we cannot discount the fact that Palm touts their Palm Profile as a backup solution. As such, people expect that the information they put into their phone will be backed up and RESTORED when needed.

    The problem with Palm's implementation is that it fails under certain conditions. If a person has to get a replacement phone (for whatever reason), and they get one that does not have the same version of WebOS that they last performed a backup from (either manually or via automated schedule), the Palm Profile servers botch the job of restoring to the "new" phone. Probably because they don't recognize the replacement phone as a replacement versus a new phone. Palm's support website says:
    2. Follow the onscreen instructions to complete setup. To create your Palm profile, enter a working email address. Your profile gives you access to services like automatic updates and frequent automatic backups of any of your info that is stored only on your phone and isn’t synchronized with an online account.

    Important If the email address is associated with another Palm profile, that Palm profile is deleted, along with all data associated with it.


    If you have a Palm profile from a webOS phone that you no longer use, you can enter that profile email address and username to download that profile information to your new phone. But if you’re still using the other phone, you must create a new Palm profile for your new phone—you can’t use the same profile on two phones.
    See: Palm Support : Palm Pre Sprint - Setting up your Palm webOS phone

    This failure happens more than Palm wants to admit. It can happen any time a replacement phone is issued out, because most of the refurbished phones have older versions of WebOS on them. It doesn't really become an issue until something critical is lost (like contacts and calendar) when the person isn't using a cloud-based service (like Google Contacts or Exchange).

    The confusion for users comes into play when they don't realize that Palm is not actually providing a cloud-based solution for the PIM (personal information management) data. They rely on 3rd parties for syncing with the cloud and assume that users will have their data on those 3rd party servers.

    The Palm® Synergy™ feature brings together your various online accounts for Calendar, Contacts, IM and more into one logical view on your phone. For example, if you have info about one person in many different places, your phone shows them in a single entry for that person. All of your info remains in its original location online.

    To take advantage of this feature, move your existing info to one of the online services supported by Palm Synergy.
    See: Palm - Start here: Move your info to your webOS™ phone

    When people don't comply with this requirement, they end up in trouble when their phone fails and needs replacement. The problem is that Palm doesn't really tell people that it is a REQUIREMENT. They downplay it in the interest of appeasing people that balk at having their information on-line. There are still a lot of people that don't trust cloud computing. Unfortunately, this Palm Profile debacle is not helping people to trust "the cloud"... The irony is that this failure would have been mitigated for these people if they were actually using "the cloud" to sync their data.

    But my point remains: The OP isn't at fault for believing that his data would be restored. That is Palm's failure for not properly managing expectations and not letting people know the TRUE requirements for WebOS's PIM data safety.
    Last edited by Insp_Gadget; 12/02/2009 at 11:40 AM.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Dude, he did use the backup system supplied by Palm. It is unreliable, and many people have said so. And once you have your contact data in your Palm profile, there is no easy way for average users to get it somewhere else if it didn't exist there already. You have to gain root access and copy off the Palmdatabase.db3 file one way or another. This is not a user problem, it's a Palm problem, and it's happening pretty frequently. It absolutely can be fixed by technology, and that fairly simply on Palm's servers. But they haven't fixed the problem, and average users who replace their phones are, in fact, being failed by Palm.

    Look, I love Palm, and I love the Pre, but this issue needs to be fixed. The default storage for contacts is not reliable, even with the default backup solution.
    I totally agree. Palm needs to make some changes as well as Sprint in this regard. Contacts shouldn't be simply thrown on there without explaining to the customer what the deal is. The whole process needs changed.

    That said, he was a prior iphone user. Had hundreds of business contacts through the years. I assume he used Outlook or exchange before.

    Question then was, what was he using for work or home? Surely you use a web-based email (like gmail) or Outlook on a PC or Mac? Wouldn't he have synced this stuff up?

    Without knowing anything about webOS, my first thought would be..ok..how do i sync (calendar, contacts, email) my Pre with my PC (or outlook in my case)?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrex View Post
    I'm sure some of you might think I'm being arrogant or unruly, but in all of this frustration lies a truth about the Pre - the palm profile service and centralized server design is flawed, and because of this one shortcoming I can't trust it any longer, and they've lost a customer. Sometime's is just that simple. I liked the phone, but I can't trust it.
    Hope you get your data back. It's been discussed here for months that the Palm Profile backup has been known to fail. Most folks find Google to be a more reliable option, and it also gives you full access to your data so you can export it and have a secondary backup.

    If your data is that important to you, then I would think that you should never trust any single point of failure and always keep redundant backups. Just because Apple didn't fail doesn't mean they won't ... and if you don't have another copy somewhere then you're just setting yourself up for a disaster.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrex View Post
    Threatening you? Why would I care about the community in reference to my work flow? I'm threatening palm and sprint essentially - their product does not meet my needs. I use it as my primary work device, it is imperative that it works - and if it doesn't work, I need to at the bare minimum retrieve my data. I had an iphone for 2 years, and had to replace it several times, but I never lost any contact information. I still have that phone right here as my secondary. Essentially what I'm saying is since all of my contact data came from my iphone, and now all of my new information has been completely lost, I'm back where I started - with an iphone with all of my contact information from a few months ago. Why spend all the time rebuilding my contact information on a device that isn't reliable if somehow gets damaged or needs to be replaced for any reason? I understand everyone here loves the pre - but I can't trust the phone anymore, I can't back up it's data continuously with the presumption it's going to fail at any moment and I can't retrieve my data. I have used palm products in the past and never ran into this kind of trouble. I wanted to switch to the Pre because I had been following it's progress for years, and I wanted to support Palm and an American company that needed my business. Unfortunately it seems Apple has a more reliable way of retrieving and storing my contact data. I'm sure some of you might think I'm being arrogant or unruly, but in all of this frustration lies a truth about the Pre - the palm profile service and centralized server design is flawed, and because of this one shortcoming I can't trust it any longer, and they've lost a customer. Sometime's is just that simple. I liked the phone, but I can't trust it.
    Totally understand your issues. I lost ALL of my contacts from my Palm and my palm profile didnt work on the back up. Im also frustrated with Palms cloud system. However, the Pre is stil, in my opinion, the best for a businessman, or rather one needing to multitask.

    That said, I too had an iphone. Still have it, but its used now for fun, not as a phone. Anyways, all my old contacts were on my iphone still. Hooked it up to itunes, transfered contacts from iphone to my computer, loaded contacts from computer to Google email, and synced my Pre again to Google. Contacts all appeared. Worked for me, you should try it. Itunes will usually sink to your Outlook account on your computer as well. If you have your iphone (secondary storage) then your good to go. Its my experience that you can never rely on new technology...doesnt mean you cant love it. I love the Pre, but still have frustrations.

    One thing though.. you said no phone is reliable. Saying you will pass on Palm and go to the iphone isnt a solution to your problem. If you lost your phone and thus lost all your contacts, what then? You should try to keep a back up location, even something as simple as Google/yahoo.etc. Set your primary Contact account for google/yahoo...each new contact will load to your google/yahoo/etc account. Yes, palms system stinks. However, you should always keep a back up, regardless what phone you have. All it takes is one thief or one mistake of losing your phone and all your contacts, or new contacts, are gone. Hope the above suggestion helps!
  9. #49  
    Why are you people 1) scolding Pyrex, and 2) telling him the "you shoulda" comments?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by roygbiv View Post
    Why are you people 1) scolding Pyrex, and 2) telling him the "you shoulda" comments?
    Because regardless of the system, PC, laptop phone, whatever -- if you have business critical information stored in only one spot you're asking for trouble.

    As for the problem - give it some time to synch. When I re-flashed my phone I was missing a lot of contacts too, but over the course of a day or so they all showed up.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by roygbiv View Post
    Why are you people 1) scolding Pyrex, and 2) telling him the "you shoulda" comments?
    I dunno. Perhaps because one of the biggest selling points of the Pre was synergy or the ability to sync OTA with services like google, yahoo or outlook/exchange. Services that you use to access and input data into as well as your Pre. With the end result that both are synced up. Input new info into one, the other has it.

    Synergy...

    Pre uses the Palm® Synergy™ feature to bring your Microsoft® Office Outlook®, Google™, Yahoo!, and Facebook® calendars together for one logical view of your day. And if you have contacts stored in those places or on LinkedIn®, Pre can pull in each person's information and combine it under one entry, making it easier to find what you need.

    Most of the problems i'm reading has to do with palm profile and corrupt backups, a palm problem to be sure. But then again, palm shouldn't even be trying to backup contacts in this manner. It's doomed to cause them headaches.
  12. #52  
    It's interesting to see people blame the customer for paying a company just to lose their data.

    And you think Google is the answer to everything? It's free so guess what, they actually have even LESS INCENTIVE to protect your data. Although there'd likely be a HUGE public backlash if their servers went down, but since it's free, no guarantees there either.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    It's interesting to see people blame the customer for paying a company just to lose their data.

    And you think Google is the answer to everything? It's free so guess what, they actually have even LESS INCENTIVE to protect your data. Although there'd likely be a HUGE public backlash if their servers went down, but since it's free, no guarantees there either.
    True, Diva, there are no guarantees with ANY service. While I don't blame the OP for his problem, I do think that he should practice safer data management if his information is that critical. That in no way absolves Palm of their responsibility in restoring his data; it's merely educating the user to protect himself and not rely on one sole entity to protect his data.

    Google, Exchange, Outlook, Yahoo, etc. are all good options for an additional place to have this data. It is what Palm intended for users to use in the first place. I think that is what some of the posters are trying to emphasize to the OP.

    Regardless, that "constructive" criticism is fine for the future, but doesn't help him with his current problem. Hopefully, he can pull the information (from his iPhone) up into a cloud-based service and then sync it to his Pre (the way Palm recommends) in order to recover. That is, if he decides to continue using the Pre. I'm sure this experience has left the taste of vinegar in his mouth.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  14. wicketr's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    It's interesting to see people blame the customer for paying a company just to lose their data.

    And you think Google is the answer to everything? It's free so guess what, they actually have even LESS INCENTIVE to protect your data. Although there'd likely be a HUGE public backlash if their servers went down, but since it's free, no guarantees there either.
    So you're saying that Google has a chance of losing your synced data (despite their enormous infrastructure and highly unlikeliness of it), so it's best not to back it up at all?

    I'd rather stick with the Google Sync + the Palm/Sprint method than the one Palm/Sprint restore method alone....but maybe that's just me.
  15. #55  
    These companies expect you to pay them, they need to follow through. I'm really tired of hearing about PAID CUSTOMERS losing their data. That goes for Apple and MSFT too. The Danger fiasco really me off even though I don't even own a Sidekick. And MobileMe going down periodically at $100 a pop per year doesn't sit too well with me either.

    I still prefer PC/Mac and memory card back-up(of course that excludes the Pre). If you use email services for contact back-up, if you have no Outlook or work Exchange, get a domain based PAID email from a reputable hosting company(or even an Exchange account) because THEY DO GUARANTEE uptime. Google, Yahoo and Facebook are free and don't exactly owe anyone if they lose your data. I don't view free services as exactly a savior although they can help, but I wouldn't rely on them either. Although they don't go down too often, I wonder about how the constant influx of users will eventually affect their servers.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by wicketr View Post
    So you're saying that Google has a chance of losing your synced data (despite their enormous infrastructure and highly unlikeliness of it), so it's best not to back it up at all?

    I'd rather stick with the Google Sync + the Palm/Sprint method than the one Palm/Sprint restore method alone....but maybe that's just me.
    No you back-up to your computer or memory card. Of course that may be a problem with the Pre. As for online Google sync, it's an option but I don't have as much faith that Google's free service is infallible as you do, I guess.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #57  
    Granted, these free services offer no guarantees, but anything is better than relying solely on Palm/Sprint, or having your data solely on a cell phone (regardless of how nice that phone is).
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  18. #58  
    The ideal is to do as has been suggested by Dieter and company at PreCentral:

    Sync your Pre with a cloud-based service; sync that cloud-based service with your desktop. Keep an additional backup of your critical PIM data off-site (if you're really paranoid).

    Backup, backup, backup.

    No guarantees, but the odds of losing all three sources of your data are very small. Under those conditions, if you lose the phone (stolen, smashed, corrupted, etc.), you have at least three ways to recover your data. In addition, you can reach your data by more ways than JUST on the phone.

    I'm amazed that anyone would rely solely on their cell phone to get to such information. I keep information in Google, Exchange, in Outlook (locally in a .PST file), on CD off-site, and on my Pre. I can get to my data from anywhere that I have an Internet connection or from any of my computers on-line or off-line (by putting in a CD).

    I have thousands of contacts/calendar items and wouldn't rely on ANY one entity to protect that data.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  19. #59  
    I don't disagree about back-ups. But it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth AGAIN about yet another PAID USER who relied on a back-up service, just to have it fail.

    I really think they made a mistake not allowing PC/Mac sync(although I read you can buy sync software, which sucks) and memory card back-up. It may be old-fashioned by today's standards but it has saved me when I had to restore a phone's firmware. It doesn't rely on cloud "profiles" tied to one phone that apparently you can't use on a replacement phone without jumping through hoops even though you paid for it. It just restores, end of story.

    P.S. I forgot to mention that I did once have to replace an iPhone and iTunes allowed me to restore from my choice of previous back-ups. Even they didn't block me from a restore.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 12/02/2009 at 02:39 PM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I don't disagree about back-ups. But it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth AGAIN about yet another PAID USER who relied on a back-up service, just to have it fail.

    I really think they made a mistake not allowing PC/Mac sync(although I read you can buy sync software, which sucks) and memory card back-up. It may be old-fashioned by today's standards but it has saved me when I had to restore a phone's firmware. It doesn't rely on cloud "profiles" tied to one phone that apparently you can't use on a replacement phone without jumping through hoops even though you paid for it. It just restores, end of story.
    Well, in all fairness, the Palm Profile is NOT a paid service. It's offered free of charge. Now granted, if you meant PAID as in paid for a Pre/Pixi, I agree that there should be some expectation of reliability with Palm's solution.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
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