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  1. turtle3's Avatar
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       #1  
    So....like an extreme majority of users on this site, I've patched my Pre up and down, left and right ever since WebOSQI came about. I've followed along with every new rendition of WebOS and subsequent upgrade to QI to ensure I'm always "up to date" with the latest patch codes. Each time a new webOS came out I'd Doctor my phone (yea....I'm one of those 'my-PC-isn't-working-right-so-I just-reformat-the-dang-thing' kind of guys - bring on the Mac jokes - I know they're better) to give it a fresh install before loading up my Preware and patch list.

    I didn't use every patch out there, but I had quite a few.

    Tonight I decided to Doctor her once again with the 1.3.1 Doctor and I gotta say things are DRAMATICALLY improved running totally stock. Speed, load times, launcher responsiveness, camera (oh man - huge difference) - especially when immediately moving to "Share by MMS", etc. Even with 9 fairly-memory-hungry cards open, new cards still launched very well.

    I'm beginning to wonder if many of the "speed/stutter gripes" I've been reading are somewhat self-inflicted via patching. For example, I always wondered if my launcher was a bit laggy because I had applied the 4x4 v3 patch, thus making the Pre have to render more moving graphics than on the 3x3. Maybe 4x4 will be better suited when the GPU is finally utilized.

    So.....for the time being, I'm going to stay relatively patch free. The one exception is the blinking, notification light - gotta have that!

    I just figured I'd report back my experiences in case anyone was getting frustrated with lag/speed issues. I feel like it's a completely different phone. I love the patches, but I also want a smooth, productivity machine in my hands (not something I'm waiting for all the time).

    For those still reading - Doctoring isn't as scary as it might seem. It takes me about 15 min total - including reloading all contacts, email, and calendars from Google/Fbook.

    Any thoughts???
  2. #2  
    There's nothing inherently buggy with patches. But you're modifying something which may cause unintended consequences and there's overhead in keeping everything up to date, doctoring, dealing with problems, etc.

    Maybe there was one patch that caused all your problem, maybe it was the interplay of a few that would be fine by themselves. Patch developers work in isolation and don't test their changes with others or how a patch behaves in the long term. My advice is to keep patching to a minimum, which is just common sense.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  3. #3  
    I'm one of those people. :-)

    I have also stoped installing patches, I don't evan have preware on my pre anymore. I did keep uptodate on everything. Everyday I would check preware to see if there was any updates, but it still felt buggy/laggy, and it wasn't until I used my girlfriends pre that wasn't patched or evan homebrewed that I really noticed it. "I aways felt that it was lagging" but up next to a pre that was pure palm WebOS, it was like night and day.

    I still support the homebrew devs, I purchased all the app I used when they made it to the app catalog :-) "still waiting for Music (Remix)" maybe I'll patch again in the future by for sure, for now, I know it can bog down the pre.

    I'm with you turtle :-)
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by turtle3 View Post
    So....like an extreme majority of users on this site, I've patched my Pre up and down, left and right ever since WebOSQI came about. I've followed along with every new rendition of WebOS and subsequent upgrade to QI to ensure I'm always "up to date" with the latest patch codes. Each time a new webOS came out I'd Doctor my phone (yea....I'm one of those 'my-PC-isn't-working-right-so-I just-reformat-the-dang-thing' kind of guys - bring on the Mac jokes - I know they're better) to give it a fresh install before loading up my Preware and patch list.

    I didn't use every patch out there, but I had quite a few.

    Tonight I decided to Doctor her once again with the 1.3.1 Doctor and I gotta say things are DRAMATICALLY improved running totally stock. Speed, load times, launcher responsiveness, camera (oh man - huge difference) - especially when immediately moving to "Share by MMS", etc. Even with 9 fairly-memory-hungry cards open, new cards still launched very well.

    I'm beginning to wonder if many of the "speed/stutter gripes" I've been reading are somewhat self-inflicted via patching. For example, I always wondered if my launcher was a bit laggy because I had applied the 4x4 v3 patch, thus making the Pre have to render more moving graphics than on the 3x3. Maybe 4x4 will be better suited when the GPU is finally utilized.

    So.....for the time being, I'm going to stay relatively patch free. The one exception is the blinking, notification light - gotta have that!

    I just figured I'd report back my experiences in case anyone was getting frustrated with lag/speed issues. I feel like it's a completely different phone. I love the patches, but I also want a smooth, productivity machine in my hands (not something I'm waiting for all the time).

    For those still reading - Doctoring isn't as scary as it might seem. It takes me about 15 min total - including reloading all contacts, email, and calendars from Google/Fbook.

    Any thoughts???
    I think what you're doing makes a lot of sense... and so do others even if they take the long way around to telling you so.

    It's the same thing that happened with Treo's. We rave about them when we get them. We eventually notice shortcomings. Wonderfully, talented and under-appreciated people take the time to whip up after-market software solutions. Then one or more of those installed solutions' side-effects decreases the phone's performance in some way(s), but no one wants to criticize them because of the old "By criticizing the war. you're not supporting the troops" accusations and fallacies.

    Boy that was a mouthful. Anyway, I'm glad you're getting the most out of your Pre. I'm keeping mine jam-packed with the "essential" homebrew apps and patches, but trying to just accept some the instability and inconveniences that come along with that.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  5. MedicX's Avatar
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    #5  
    after I had had my latest problem and had to doctor my Pre, I never put the preware back onto it. I have been seriously thinking about it, just haven't made the move. My wife still has preware & patches on hers, so I frequently ask if there is anything new or just check it out for myself.

    there are a few patches that I would like to have, like landscape emails, blinking notifications, and some of the homebrew apps... Who knows, we'll see.
    Lovin' the Pre. Love It.
  6. Spyral's Avatar
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    #6  
    So, what about Preware and only homebrew apps? It took me a long time to grow into Homebrew. Coming from WinMo phones, I was used to tweaking every little thing, but knowing that doing so impacts the phone's usability more and more.

    Since the latest WebOS update, I've noticed a severe lack of speed and memory management with my Pre. Graphics are missing, apps are slow to load, and the 'Too Many Cards' limit is hit often with only 1 or 2 cards open. Is my homebrew lifestyle to blame for this?

    Keep in mind, I've only installed Preware, and only use it to install other Homebrew apps. My phone has never seen a patch or theme change of any kind.
  7. #7  
    i like patches
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
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  8. #8  
    Hmm, you're making me curious as to whether mine could be running better or not. I haven't noticed much in the way of lag -save for some slowness in camera and photo- but I wonder if I've forgotten how my phone used to run. I haven't even used the latest webOS update without patches and themes. And I've got a lot; landscape everything, blinking notifications, a theme that goes really deep and affects a lot of apps, dowload from youtube, launcher x5, launcher opacity, send video and audio in messages...the list goes on. I think I have like 46 packages that preware alone recognizes. The cool thing is, my phone still seems to be moving fast enough that i really can't complain. But now you've got me curious as to what it would be like stock...
  9. #9  
    I wonder if there's specific patches that could have caused slowdowns. I deleted all my patches and saw no difference, so I reinstalled them.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  10. neve's Avatar
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    #10  
    I've done pretty much everything I can do to this device short of rooting. I currently have 34 patches installed, irc and various other services, and countless apps and homebrews.

    my wife's pre has one homebrew installed and one patch.. Download unthrottle.. Because I put it there. Otherwise her machine is stock.

    I think our response is all but identical. I also think performance was increased marginally, at least on my machine, by the download unthrottle. I only mention mine because I didn't do a before and after lag test on hers (though her download times are noticeably faster than before).

    I did have a powerflex 600 patch installed, and noticed considerable response improvement, over and above stock, but after all the warnings and some extreme phone heat I rolled I back to a "nuclear" 500 mhz flavor.

    right now I'd say my performance overall.. Swiping, app opening, etc. Are at what I consider to be a workable speed level, and feels approximately stock to me, if not a tad faster.
  11. diggedy's Avatar
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    #11  
    im also staying stock as ive found patching eats my battery. I havent managed to find out which one or which combination caused it but the phone is much happier without them.
  12. digink's Avatar
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    #12  
    Everybody on the floor, everybody do the dinosaur!
  13. #13  
    i have been thinking the same for a while now. i got my pre right after the 1.2 update. after updating i patch my phone. everytime i want to answer a phone call u know the drag to answer button, it just doesn't drag. it's stays, it doesnt respond. i have to open the keyboard to answer, and the lagging in the launcher gets worst everyday. i'm going patch free or atleast only do one or two patches cause theres has to be something going on with at least one patch. something has to be causing this. i have on my phone: audio/video attachments, capture with volume key, close slider to end calls except headset, default to month view, enable add/delete pages, hide amazon, hide media sync, hide musicplayer, hide nascar, hide nfl, improve file format, multi mod, mew card per convo, reset scroll position (which doesn't work since the new update), swipe to delete videos, unthrottle download manager (havent seen any difference), and video downloads. all these patches i applied after updating to 1.3. maybe if we list our patches we can find a common one and find out which one is the bad one. Maybe, hopefully. Or just maybe palm will add all this to the next update and make it the perfect phone. should we wait? or list?
  14. lotuskid's Avatar
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    #14  
    This is making me curious also about running mine stock...

    Here's something ELSE to ponder about, could it be that the OP's patchless pre runs smoother because he ALSO did a doctor, which removes cookies, texts, etc.?

    The reason I wonder is because with my previous Winmo phone it always seemed that after doing a hard reset the phone would run smoother, then over the course of a few weeks of use it would being to lag.

    any thoughts?
  15. ldj
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    #15  
    I've never bothered with patching. I hear all this whining about speed problems, lag etc but my Pre runs great.
    Why would I jeapodise that?
  16. turtle3's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    i like patches
    Haha....so do I my friend, so do I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I deleted all my patches and saw no difference, so I reinstalled them.
    I too did this, but I'm a skeptic. The Homebrew Dev's are seriously stellar, but the fact remains, they are writing 3rd party code that modifies the original code. There are many steps along the way with installing/uninstalling when things can 'mess up' if you will. Short of a Mac or Google Chrome, I've rarely encountered software that will run flawlessly nearly indefinitely. Add to the mix that you're modifying fairly "young" code (webOS) and it seems to me we could be exploiting inefficiencies in the current code by utilizing patches. (Disclaimer: I'm not a Dev, but I'd say my computer knowledge is a few steps above par, so take my comments with a grain of salt, or feel free to disagree and tell me why).

    Quote Originally Posted by alhaqq View Post
    Here's something ELSE to ponder about, could it be that the OP's patchless pre runs smoother because he ALSO did a doctor, which removes cookies, texts, etc.?
    any thoughts?
    I thought the same thing, except I always delete my SMS threads after I'm "done" with them...so at any given time I've got 2-6, short, threads in my Messaging program. Also, I wipe my cookies every couple weeks. Now....you bring up another one of my theories. I'm sure there are still memory leaks throughout webOS - however minimal they may be. So doing a full Doctor probably reset any 'bad' or 'unusable' sectors in the RAM that had been hanging around for a while.

    I'll emphasize again - I love the HB Dev's, they've contributed so much to this community it's unbelievable. However, I wonder if the mere process of loading Preware (thus having to load a few "Package Manager Services" - GNU and something else) could have an effect. To figure this out, while still loading my ever-important blinking LED, I used WebOSQI to Receive the pertinent files and I manually (with Notepad++) un-commented the relevant code. So, I did NOT use a patching 'service' to add the blinking LED. That was 3 days ago, and as my original post says - still feels like a completely different phone than when I was patched.

    If this doesn't last more than a month - well, I'm happy to Doctor my phone once a month to get this speediness back........at least until the next webOS version comes out.

    turtle
  17. PreGk's Avatar
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    #17  
    I'm in the same boat, but I don't think its the patches, I think its the themes. Whenever I run the stock theme, everything seems quicker and less laggy....the phone just "works." With themes installed, my Pre gets so laggy that it becomes unusable sometimes and I keep getting too many card errors. I am not 100% sure though, so I will keep testing without themes and try to isolate the problem better.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by PreGk View Post
    I'm in the same boat, but I don't think its the patches, I think its the themes. Whenever I run the stock theme, everything seems quicker and less laggy....the phone just "works." With themes installed, my Pre gets so laggy that it becomes unusable sometimes and I keep getting too many card errors. I am not 100% sure though, so I will keep testing without themes and try to isolate the problem better.
    I don't and never have had a single theme installed on my Pre so I know it's not about those.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.

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