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  1. #121  
    Actually, I think the conversation actually started getting somewhere in the last page or so. Less aggressive ranting and more actual discussion. In the beginning I was kind of in the camp of "What? ANOTHER thread? Sheesh. And I'm neither of those things". But I can see dbd putting out some constructive arguments about the calendar (which really I don't use extensively other than syncing with my personal stuff so it doesn't bother me). And what degraded to trolling in the last thread has, I think, actually evolved into a better discussion. For the most part, anyway.

    Whether you think things were "missing" or "broken" or just plain built incorrectly, or maybe you think the phone was fine and you get the bonus of tweaking... I think there are a bunch in each camp, and we all like to defend our own opinions.

    Personally, I think landscape messaging and email is cool, but useless. I use the keyboard (one of the reasons I wanted a Pre) and in landscape that's kind of impractical. The LED light? Sure. OK. Just so far down the list that I don't car much. The big things I fix are aesthetic, like the 4x4 icons in the launcher and extra launcher pages. Video would be cool, but honestly, I would have picked the Pre if I knew it was never coming out.

    Patches can be fun and easy (and something that Palm intended you to be able to do), but you can get your fill of hacking and tweaking too (like Precorder or the CPU scaling patches). I do a bit of both, because I can. I would be happy with a stock Pre (with some complaints, like any phone) but I'm way happier with it the way I have it now.

    What I would pay for though, is a "profile" app or drop down, where I could adjust multiple settings in one step. Like turning the locking on or off, set the notifications on or off, turn radios Wifi/BT/EVDO on and off. So I could have a "car" profile with BT on and maybe a certain ringtone, and "outside" setting with a loud ringtone and WiFi turned off, and a home one with the locking turned off and Wifi on and EVDO and BT off. You get the idea. Anyway, what's cool about the Pre is that somebody might read this and decide to build it.
  2.    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by bill.millett View Post
    Actually, I think the conversation actually started getting somewhere in the last page or so. Less aggressive ranting and more actual discussion. In the beginning I was kind of in the camp of "What? ANOTHER thread? Sheesh. And I'm neither of those things". But I can see dbd putting out some constructive arguments about the calendar (which really I don't use extensively other than syncing with my personal stuff so it doesn't bother me). And what degraded to trolling in the last thread has, I think, actually evolved into a better discussion...........
    Thanx. I'm glad somebody noticed. I know that most people here, in the forums, think that all I do is complain complain complain -but i feel that 'constructive critism' and 'complaints' are terms that are often confused with one another.
    From my opening post, i stated that i would like this to be a discussion. And like you said, for the most part, that is what we have here this time around.
    I just want to say 'thanks' to the people who have made it, and continue to make it, what i intended it to be.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 11/28/2009 at 11:25 AM.
  3.    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yeah, nothing like noting that they probably can't copy what they had before to run off on a tangent of why they don't copy what they had before. ..........
    I was just reading this again, and maybe because it's 5am and my contact lenses are dry, but .. WHAT ??
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    I was just reading this again, and maybe because it's 5am and my contact lenses are dry, but .. WHAT ??
    The OP had complained that Palm wasn't doing what they did before. I replied as to why that was not practical. He accused me of "going off on a tangent".

    Check out lasik surgery, you never have to worry about pulling out your contacts. Now that's a tangent.
  5.    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The OP had complained that Palm wasn't doing what they did before. I replied as to why that was not practical. He accused me of "going off on a tangent".

    Check out lasik surgery, you never have to worry about pulling out your contacts. Now that's a tangent.
    @hparsons:
    I was the OP. You were quoting somebody else. It's ok. Apology accepted .
    »Begin tangent«
    I'm far-sighted . The doc told me Lasik's really only for near-sightedness (last i checked, a couple of years ago).
    Thanx for the medical advice though.
    «/end tangent»
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    @hparsons:
    I was the OP. You were quoting somebody else. It's ok. Apology accepted .
    Nono, not the THREAD OP, the POST OP. Sheesh!
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    »Begin tangent«
    I'm far-sighted . The doc told me Lasik's really only for near-sightedness (last i checked, a couple of years ago).
    Thanx for the medical advice though.
    «/end tangent»
    Now see, I didn't know that. I am/was badly near-sighted - when I would go for vision tests, they'd pull out the card in the back that only had one big letter on it. I could get that one right, but only because it was easy to memorize one letter...

    I didn't realize that lasik couldn't correct far-sighted, I guess we all tend to assume "our" problems and solutions are universal.

    Which brings us right back on topic...
  7.    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post

    Now see, I didn't know that. I am/was badly near-sighted - when I would go for vision tests, they'd pull out the card in the back that only had one big letter on it. I could get that one right, but only because it was easy to memorize one letter...

    I didn't realize that lasik couldn't correct far-sighted, I guess we all tend to assume "our" problems and solutions are universal.

    Which brings us right back on topic...
    LOL, hp... And thanks for grabbing hold of the steering wheel to put the thread back on topic before it gets moved.
  8. noaxis2's Avatar
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    #128  
    My Pre exceeded my perceived needs at the time of purchase. However, the Pre Homebrew crew allowed me to see the potential of a smartphone!

    I had been with AT&T since I first got a cellphone for work in 1997 (CellularOne). By the time smartphones really started to catch on (prices dropped), I had a lot more expenses (bought a house, moved some relatives to the Coast, a child, etc) and couldn't justify the additional cost of a data plan (I was paying for my relative's phone...she used A LOT of minutes!)

    I was tempted big time by the iPhone because I just ADORED my iPod...started with a returned 3rd generation, bought a 4th and 5th generation. However, I had never been a fan of convergence because...I just don't like talking on the phone! So, I didn't really want to be enjoying my Harry Potter audiobooks and see that I missed a phone call. I listen to my iPod to get away from phone calls.

    I have also loved my Handspring Visor/Prism/Sony Clies/Palm TX so I was very excited when I heard a new Palm phone was coming out. My AT&T contract ended one month before the Pre came out.

    Let me tell you...having an unlimited data plan has totally changed how I use the phone. I still don't like to talk on the phone (so I don't have unlimited minutes). However, I love texting! Have started using Twitter and Facebook! I use my laptop much less often at home because of how easy it is to check email and favorite websites on my Pre. DR PODDER has virtually retired my 60 GB iPod!!! I didn't think anything would cause me to hesitate to run out and buy the 64 GB iPod Touch when it was finally created...but I've had very little desire. If I could hook my Pre to the TV and started streaming my media...I might not use the iPod anymore!

    So, even though I am a nerd and love to tweak...tweaking and patching the Pre only showed some of the awesome possibilities that are waiting for us in WebOS and smartphones...or whatever is coming in the future!!!



    Being me has its advantages.

    -- Albus Dumbledore, Headmaster, Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    Funny, my phone had everything that it said it had when I bought it. Basics?? You mean a phone?? Tell me you researched the phone before you bought it? Do you mean basics like a video camera? That wasn't in the phone specs when I bought it? dbd, sell me your phone, I need 2 more to complete my set of 5!
    Phones in Family pre> pre> pre> Centro> Rant
  10.    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by notaphonegeek View Post
    Funny, my phone had everything that it said it had when I bought it. Basics?? You mean a phone?? Tell me you researched the phone before you bought it? Do you mean basics like a video camera? That wasn't in the phone specs when I bought it? dbd, sell me your phone, I need 2 more to complete my set of 5!
    Arghhhh! I've been through this a million times already... and tell me... why does everyone keep thinking that i complain about no video cam?
    That's the least of it (and i never even mentioned it).
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 11/30/2009 at 07:41 PM.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by noaxis2 View Post
    ...
    Let me tell you...having an unlimited data plan has totally changed how I use the phone. I still don't like to talk on the phone (so I don't have unlimited minutes). However, I love texting! Have started using Twitter and Facebook! I use my laptop much less often at home because of how easy it is to check email and favorite websites on my Pre. DR PODDER has virtually retired my 60 GB iPod!!!
    ...
    So, even though I am a nerd and love to tweak...tweaking and patching the Pre only showed some of the awesome possibilities that are waiting for us in WebOS and smartphones...or whatever is coming in the future!!!
    I think just about all of this could have been written by me, except the Dr Podder/iPod. I was never much into "music on a device", until I got the Pre. I started off with Pandora, and have started playing around with Media Monkey.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think just about all of this could have been written by me, except the Dr Podder/iPod. I was never much into "music on a device", until I got the Pre. I started off with Pandora, and have started playing around with Media Monkey.
    And yet you found the authority to dismiss complaints about the Music player as an inessential feature to the phone.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And yet you found the authority to dismiss complaints about the Music player as an inessential feature to the phone.
    And I still consider the complaints about the Music player as an inessential feature.

    And just as I stated at the time, others have come in to fill in the gaps, and produce very good substitute software (no, I don't use the built in Music Player, yes, I use the much more powerful Music Remix)

    You do understand the difference between and "essential" piece, and an add-on, correct?

    I'm curious, do you regularly cyberstalk folks like this - you know, jumping in on many threads one which they post, misrepresenting what they say, making false accusations, etc; or are you just unnaturally attracted to me.

    It's a bit disconcerting, to say the least.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And I still consider the complaints about the Music player as an inessential feature.

    And just as I stated at the time, others have come in to fill in the gaps, and produce very good substitute software (no, I don't use the built in Music Player, yes, I use the much more powerful Music Remix)

    You do understand the difference between and "essential" piece, and an add-on, correct?
    I do, and today media playback is an essential feature for a smartphone. But I'm curious how someone like you, who is just now getting into using the device for music playback, feels confident to dismiss complaints about missing features in that area?

    About Remix, I think it's a nice app but it doesn't help with the Music app's most serious issues, likely because it's up to Palm to fix. I don't want to say it's bad, it's free and I appreciate the work gone into it but I it mostly offers customizations that I don't need and has a few bugs of its own.

    I'm curious, do you regularly cyberstalk folks like this - you know, jumping in on many threads one which they post, misrepresenting what they say, making false accusations, etc; or are you just unnaturally attracted to me.

    It's a bit disconcerting, to say the least.
    No, I was subscribed to the forum and the Pre dutifully notified me of your post so I hopped on and replied. The Pre lets me conduct these debates with you from practically anywhere, at any time. That's not a good thing on the whole.

    And I haven't misrepresented what you've said. You just confirmed and reiterated the same.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I do, and today media playback is an essential feature for a smartphone. But I'm curious how someone like you, who is just now getting into using the device for music playback, feels confident to dismiss complaints about missing features in that area?
    You're overlooking the fact that I stated at the time that I wasn't a user of those types of applications. I tend to dismiss all of the "Palm, you owe me" type of complaints, have you noticed?

    The Pre is what it is. Those that demand something else are "demanding" something to which they are not entitled.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    About Remix, I think it's a nice app but it doesn't help with the Music app's most serious issues, likely because it's up to Palm to fix. I don't want to say it's bad, it's free and I appreciate the work gone into it but I it mostly offers customizations that I don't need and has a few bugs of its own.
    So, you're dismissing it because it doesn't suit you? Interesting...


    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And I haven't misrepresented what you've said. You just confirmed and reiterated the same.
    Sorry, that's just not true. You may not have in this particular instance, but you regularly mis-state my position on multiple issues. Would you like a list?

    Your response was directed at me and had nothing to do with the dicussion at hand, other than an opportunity to take another swipe at me.

    Seriously, lose the man-crush. Go cyber-stalk someone else. Maybe it's time to seek a little counseling...
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're overlooking the fact that I stated at the time that I wasn't a user of those types of applications. I tend to dismiss all of the "Palm, you owe me" type of complaints, have you noticed?
    I understand that you were not a user of that type of application at the time, which is why you had no authority to dismiss complaints about missing functionality or problems in them, simply because you lack the perspective of someone who is using those features.

    And I also think the same applies to the calendar discussion where you repeatedly insist that your limited usage encompasses everything that someone might reasonably need to do with the calendar.

    The Pre is what it is. Those that demand something else are "demanding" something to which they are not entitled.
    What do you mean "The Pre is what it is", which version does that pertain to, 1.0.2, 1.0.3, 1.1, 1.2, 1.2.1, 1.3.1, some future version? Please be more specific.

    Or just finally describe what is the Pre anyway. You've said it's not good for business, it's not good for games, it's not good for apps. So what is it good for, just answer with something we can evaluate instead of attacking others' idea of what the Pre should be.

    So, you're dismissing it because it doesn't suit you? Interesting...
    No. I actually like the stock Music app, except two issues on which I will post a separate thread. I don't use Remix because whenever I can I prefer to use stock apps unless there's a good reason to use something else. Remix has many nice features, just not the ones that compel me to use it instead.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #137  
    Both but I lean more on the side of 'that's its fun to tweak and mod' a phone.

    Yeah, I want some of the stuff that Palm left out, but so far nothing here has given me that.

    Ah, with one exception, the Video Recorder that is in Alpha.

    Having played with that myself, I am just so impressed with all the developers here.

    And back to the fun part, it's fun to watch them all learn and especially share what they learned between each other.

    Rob
    Robert L
    Astoria Queens, N.Y.C
    - Palm Pre (Sprint) - formally Palm Treo 650
    Version 1.4.1.1
    Sprint Configuration 2.3
    Model: P100EWW
    Hardware Version: A
    Firmware: CC1.4(510)

  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I understand that you were not a user of that type of application at the time, which is why you had no authority to dismiss complaints about missing functionality or problems in them, simply because you lack the perspective of someone who is using those features.
    Really? And exactly who determines what gives one "authority". I never stated that xyz portion of a the music app was not needed, or unimportant. I repeatedly stated (and still do) that no one has a "right" to anything that wasn't promised by Palm.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    And I also think the same applies to the calendar discussion where you repeatedly insist that your limited usage encompasses everything that someone might reasonably need to do with the calendar.
    Everybody's use is "limited". You questioned me deeply about exactly what my use was, trying to somehow trivialize the way I used the Calendar. You then went on to make claims about my use that were false. And now you again talk about my use.

    I submit you don't know how I use it.

    However, even that is not important. You are insisting that Palm add features because you want them. I disagree. I have all the "authority" I need to disagree with you. I understand your distaste at having someone do so, but that's just life...

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Or just finally describe what is the Pre anyway. You've said it's not good for business, it's not good for games, it's not good for apps. So what is it good for, just answer with something we can evaluate instead of attacking others' idea of what the Pre should be.
    Every statement you just made is false (big shock there, huh?). I never said "it's not good for business", nor have I said "It's not good for games", nor "it's not good for apps".

    Personally, I don't think it's the best in any one of those categories. However, as a convergence device, I don't think there exists a device that brings all of those together better.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    No. I actually like the stock Music app, except two issues on which I will post a separate thread. I don't use Remix because whenever I can I prefer to use stock apps unless there's a good reason to use something else. Remix has many nice features, just not the ones that compel me to use it instead.
    Excellent. Then maybe they don't owe you anything.
  19. #139  
    For me, until I rooted my pre and then preware made homebrew *really* fun (yes, filecoaster, you will always have a place in my heart...) my Pre was actually a secondary device in many ways.
    My centro was not keeping a charge very well and the Pre came out just as my two-year term was up... sooo... I *was* expecting at *least* the functionallity of the centro when I 'upgraded'. Without the tweaks it was not even close in too many ways :-(

    I DO believe it *will* get there!

    My Centro was still necessary to have nearby since I could set actual reminder times (select the number of minutes/hours/days before an event, something I had been able to do since my grayscale palm wayyyy-back!!) -- so just recently with a patch adding the option of more reminder times my Pre become MUCH more useful. And that is not even bringing the classic apps functions into it... for some I still use my centro - LOL.

    Like others here, video I do not care so much about, but a calendar search tweak I would kill for, and I MISS my bug-free audible player and ESPECIALLY audible-air... anyone who is reading and wants to make money on an app, audible listeners are waiting... ;-)

    So, back on topic -- yes, I am a geek, and yes, I have 80+ patches on my phone to get it close to what I want. I have a list of more that I was expecting to already be here by now (have had my Pre since July)... So that puts me squarely in the 'BOTH' category :-D
    Last edited by redheads55; 12/01/2009 at 02:42 AM.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Really? And exactly who determines what gives one "authority". I never stated that xyz portion of a the music app was not needed, or unimportant. I repeatedly stated (and still do) that no one has a "right" to anything that wasn't promised by Palm.
    I didn't see anyone mentioning rights, I think you're exaggerating and the quotes are a giveaway as usual.

    Maybe we can talk about expectations instead. Every consumer, or even just a side to any transaction, has an expectation. Palm continues to use the brand name it released business devices under, and continues to advertise the Pre to business people. By that it creates the expectation of a business device, and it needs to, so it can sell to that market. So when a central function of the device like the Calendar app leaves the user frustrated in the middle of routine interactions with their peers, or fails to sync their events reliably, they voice dissatisfaction. I don't see anything unusual about it. In fact I'd argue that Palm should listen and address the problems brought up.

    Everybody's use is "limited". You questioned me deeply about exactly what my use was, trying to somehow trivialize the way I used the Calendar. You then went on to make claims about my use that were false. And now you again talk about my use.

    I submit you don't know how I use it.
    I don't, but I also didn't describe it in any detail that presumes to know. All I said is that the usage for which you claim Agenda and QuickEvent are sufficient in, is too limited to be helpful. You admitted that Agenda was probably not going to work for what eekinsman described. Hence, your usage is limited in comparison and you should be more cautious when dismissing these problems because loading up Agenda with 30 days gets you by just fine. It's just not the usage under discussion.

    However, even that is not important. You are insisting that Palm add features because you want them. I disagree. I have all the "authority" I need to disagree with you. I understand your distaste at having someone do so, but that's just life...
    What do you disagree with? I asked a few times already if there is any reason for Palm not to address current deficiencies in the Calendar app. I have yet to hear a single reason why they should not do so. I even dropped the word "fix" just for you, but you are still intransigent about it.

    Every statement you just made is false (big shock there, huh?). I never said "it's not good for business", nor have I said "It's not good for games", nor "it's not good for apps".

    Personally, I don't think it's the best in any one of those categories. However, as a convergence device, I don't think there exists a device that brings all of those together better.
    You said that anyone expecting a reliable business device from Palm was foolish. Somehow I doubt Palm would agree or think this is a desirable image. I agree that it could be a great convergence device, but even a convergence device needs to meet certain baseline functionality, beyond which one can evaluate relative strengths and personal priorities without deal breakers.

    Mods: please feel free to move this to the calendar thread. Thanks.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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