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  1. #101  
    wow you again "dbd" lol,you really like controversy dont you ha ha ..... i'll stay away from it myself lol i like my pre because i can do what i want to do with it and thats it .
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    We are here because we love the device and when we complain its out of frustration caused by some decision by Palm that we dont really understand or just because things aint working like we want them too.

    Its not because we are haters, we want Palm to succed (spelling?) and take over the world. If they dont im pretty sure we will all be assimilated....
    so if your kids did the same thing to you ???would you then listen to them or throw them in the corner or send them to their room???? ha ha heheh
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  3. Andreas's Avatar
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    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    so if your kids did the same thing to you ???would you then listen to them or throw them in the corner or send them to their room???? ha ha heheh


    I would explain to the kids why the changes are necessary. That discussion would take place prior to implementation instead of just letting them face the facts without a reason.

    To me that approach sounds much better than having the kids coming home crying, telling they were thrown out of the App Store because they are foreigners.
    Treo 180 270 600 650 Centro Pre Pr3 tPad tPad4G
  4.    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    wow you again "dbd" lol,you really like controversy dont you ha ha ..... i'll stay away from it myself lol i like my pre because i can do what i want to do with it and thats it .
    Yeah, i guess i can't deny it
    BTW- Have you seen my analogy?
    *** My Analogy (if u missed it)
    - If this is how the world runs, then i could open up a barber shop and tell people to pay ME, but they will have to either cut their own hair, or look outside the door for somebody else to walk in to cut it for them but still pay me anyway.
    (This, in no way, is to knock the homebrew devs. I respect that ur only trying to help us.)
    -- Watcha think?
    Don't worry, i won't be mad if you think one of the other ones was better. I know you don't want to get involved , lol, but i'm just curious. On second thought, don't worry about it.
    Hey, i saw a post you wrote about Trapster's voice alert almost causing you to wreck on I10 and i really did 'Laugh Out Loud'.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 11/26/2009 at 09:02 PM.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Yeah, i guess i can't deny it
    BTW- Have you seen my analogy?
    *** My Analogy (if u missed it)
    - If this is how the world runs, then i could open up a barber shop and tell people to pay ME, but they will have to either cut their own hair, or look outside the door for somebody else to walk in to cut it for them but still pay me anyway.
    (This, in no way, is to knock the homebrew devs. I respect that ur only trying to help us.)
    -- Watch think?
    Don't worry, i won't be mad if you think one of the other ones was better. I know you don't want to get involved , lol, but i'm just curious. On second thought, don't worry about
    Hey, i saw a post you wrote about Trapster's voice alert almost causing you to wreck on I10 and i really did 'Laugh Out Loud'.
    yeah i do understand im just ok with it and got more than i expected already so.. , thanks and it was truth to lol (trapster post)
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Both bother you enough to not use the Calendar. You load Agenda with 30 days so you can search through it, and you use Quick Event so you can enter data fast. The original argument was about you denying problems with the Calendar. These two apps are very nice but I need global search and I don't want to launch and manage two apps when I need to work with the calendar
    ...
    The lag has nothing to do with me using QuickEvent (you really do read into responses your own skewed interpretation). I don't use the calendar to enter events because I personally don't care for the slide this gadget and that gadget to get where you want, so you can enter a date. QE takes care of that.
    The original argument (in this thread) was not about me denying there are "problems" with the calendar. Obviously, individuals are going to see things they wish the device would do, or there would be no need of any kind for third party apps.
    As far as launching two apps, Agenda integrates nicely with QU (as well as the calendar), but I suspect no matter the answer, your basic argument would be the same. You want Palm to do what they "were" doing (by your standard) that you liked, and nothing else is satisfactory.

    You keep going back to the notion that you expect "the same focus on PIM as it always has been."; except that notion is a false one. They did not always have a focus on PIM. As I've pointed out several times, their original PIM was lacking. They didn't fix it, third party developers did. 3rd parties added the functionality that turned it into what it was.

    I expect much the same thing to happen, but Palm can no longer be focused on PIM only. As a matter of fact, they can't really "focus" on any one particular aspect. The SmartPhone today has to be so much more than "just" any particular aspect of what it does. Multimedia, Phone (the original Palm devices weren't phones), gaming device, PDA, email (something else the originals lacked), connected browser, and social networking (ditto on those two).
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    We are here because we love the device and when we complain its out of frustration caused by some decision by Palm that we dont really understand or just because things aint working like we want them too.

    Its not because we are haters, we want Palm to succed (spelling?) and take over the world. If they dont im pretty sure we will all be assimilated....
    That's fine in that context. But there are some on here that have whose posts are almost exclusively slams against the Pre, and anyting Pre related. One particular user has even described it as his "mission" to let everyone know how bad the device is for the remaining time on his contract.

    Not that I'm saying the whiners shouldn't post. If they want to, they should. However, it's a bit much for them to post and expect their nonsense to go unchallenged.
  8. dkvdave's Avatar
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    #108  
    Personally, I would be disappointed with the Pre without the patches...

    Why on EARTH would Palm not enable landscape view in messages, email and PDF's out of the box? And after numerous OS updates I STILL have to resort to patches for those features? Same for LED blink notifications, being able to set the month as the default screen in calendar, ability to set ringtone and message alerts on a per user basis, etc, etc, etc. I've currently got 43 patches installed to enable features that should be in the stock OS... I hope Palm gets their act together soon... Android looks like an interesting possibility in the future...
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    The lag has nothing to do with me using QuickEvent (you really do read into responses your own skewed interpretation). I don't use the calendar to enter events because I personally don't care for the slide this gadget and that gadget to get where you want, so you can enter a date. QE takes care of that.
    Okay, so you find the interface cumbersome. Maybe we can agree on this?

    The original argument (in this thread) was not about me denying there are "problems" with the calendar. Obviously, individuals are going to see things they wish the device would do, or there would be no need of any kind for third party apps.
    It takes too long--too many taps, animations and lags--to enter an event. That is one problem with it, it's a usability problem. Another, functional problem, is the lack of search, and another--the lack of agenda view. To some who travel, time zones aren't working as expected, another functional problem. These are the problems (aside from scheduling and notification bugs reported on the forum).

    The usability problems are a result of sloppy design and implementation by Palm, which disregards its own published UI guidelines for Palm OS, where efficiency and speed are paramount.

    As far as launching two apps, Agenda integrates nicely with QU (as well as the calendar), but I suspect no matter the answer, your basic argument would be the same. You want Palm to do what they "were" doing (by your standard) that you liked, and nothing else is satisfactory.
    It's not my standard. They wrote the guidelines themselves, using the Palm OS calendar is prime example of how to design efficient UIs: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...mK5KfZcEdi1dRg

    Throughout the document, the Palm OS calendar is the prime example for discussing design principles. And here is a key paragraph, which should read familiar by now:

    As a rule of thumb, the user should be able to keep up with someone on the telephone when setting up appointments, looking up phone numbers, and so on.
    That's not possible with the webOS calendar.

    And, from webOS UI guidelines http://developer.palm.com/images/pal...guidelines.pdf:

    • Design a beautiful app: The emotional impact of an attractive application cannot be underestimated...and it's easy to achieve! The UI Framework provides you with:
      Standard UI controls you will use in your application.
      Default styling for all controls, so your app looks great from the start.
      Start with the default controls. If you want to customize the look of your app, you can...and we'll talk more about that later.
    • Design an app that is delightful to use: Applications delight users when they enable them to get their tasks done quickly and efficiently. This is especially important for mobile users, who often only have 10 or 15 seconds to use your application. Your app will be their favorite if it helps them get something important done quickly, efficiently and easily.

    What we have here are the new concepts of "beautiful" and "emotional impact", these were never part of Palm OS, and we can safely surmise the iPhone influence here. I can tell you that the emotional impact of the calendar is one of repeating frustration.

    Then we have a reference to keeping in mind that the user will often have only 10-15 seconds to use the app, by which Palm failed miserably with the webOS calendar, even by their official webOS guidelines.

    These ideas and wishes are not mine, but Palm's very own.

    You keep going back to the notion that you expect "the same focus on PIM as it always has been."; except that notion is a false one. They did not always have a focus on PIM. As I've pointed out several times, their original PIM was lacking. They didn't fix it, third party developers did. 3rd parties added the functionality that turned it into what it was.
    Of course PIM has been the focus from the start. PDA: personal digital assistant. You can argue that they had missteps or that 3rd parties had better ideas, but this was their mission.

    I expect much the same thing to happen, but Palm can no longer be focused on PIM only. As a matter of fact, they can't really "focus" on any one particular aspect. The SmartPhone today has to be so much more than "just" any particular aspect of what it does. Multimedia, Phone (the original Palm devices weren't phones), gaming device, PDA, email (something else the originals lacked), connected browser, and social networking (ditto on those two).
    You know, they actually don't have to focus on it that much. But Palm has actually gone and dumbed down the functionality. What was that done for? Why did they remake Memos as sticky notes? Why did they introduce animations, taps and lag into the calendar? Why are they gutting the business functionality of the device? All they had to do is bring the core PIM apps up to par with Palm OS and then they could invite 3rd parties to improve on them. But right now there is absolutely no interest by PIM developers and there won't be for a very long time, likely even longer than your ownership of the Pre.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. #110  
    I tweak, patch, hack my phone for many reasons ^_^.
    Hacked for EvDO... but really i do it because I can. I enjoy learning new things, and because I use my pre as if it was a vital organ... why not **** with every function.

    In layman's terms... If you could have robot legs, wouldn't you? Sure your legs right now work just fine, but that hardly matters. Well your pre can have robot legs, so screw gods (sprint's) design, you know you can do better
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Okay, so you find the interface cumbersome. Maybe we can agree on this?
    ...
    (the rest of the quote is left out to save space)

    I'll agree it's cumbersome for quickly entering multiple events. I find it very usable for browsing the calendar to see what I have coming up.

    I'll also grant you that I misspoke on the "focus" issue. I was using the term to mean focus as in getting it right.

    Bottom line here is that you and I have different expectations for Palm. I expect them to release a device and platform that is versitile enough to allow developers to give me what I want. You seem to want it out of the box.

    I'm not 100% sure that Palm has succeeded for me; but it looks very promising so far. In the 6 months that it's been out, just in the PIM area, here's what I have that I eithernever had with my previous Palm devices, or have been vastly improved with the Pre.
    • The ability to pull contacts from multiple sources (with the PalmOS, even with add-ons, I was restricted to one "oustside the device" contact list).
    • The ability to pull multiple calendars to the device
    • The syncronization for both of the above has been greatly enhanced. Over the air synchornization has been greatly improved, and now uses industry standards (though the implementation still needs some work, it's light years ahead of what I had with the PalmOS.

    This is just one area, the PIM functionality. That doesn't begin to touch the other features of the device.

    Are all areas perfect? Absolutely not. However, patches (which was the thrust of this thread) have only added to the functionality, they have not "fixed" broken issues for me.

    The broader issue, to me though, is that Palm has improved the basics of the platform, and have provided a foundation that they and third parties can build on. That's what I look for in a device.

    That had begun to fade with the PalmOS. While new devices were expanding what could be done, the PalmOS has fallen into a holding pattern with the old stuff. The Pre introduced some new concepts, and has provided a solid platform for others as well.
  12. dr5150's Avatar
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    #112  
    Raises his tweak freak flag
  13.    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by dr5150 View Post
    raises his tweak freak flag
    Heh heh. REALLY Laughing Out Loud.

  14. #114  
    With or without trolls & flaming, it's pretty easy to see why the other thread exactly like this one but a little less civil was closed; the topic goes nowhere. It's (at this point) a six page circle-jerk of I'm-right-and-you're-wrong-no-you're-wrong-and-I'm-right.

    It's an exercise in futility, like people trying to convince others that their favorite color is better.

    Nothing against constructive discourse but this entire thread is a a waste of time & bandwidth. Points have been made, remade, rephrased, reiterated, restated, and regurgitated. It's re-diculous.
  15.    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottitude View Post
    With or without trolls & flaming, it's pretty easy to see why the other thread exactly like this one but a little less civil was closed; the topic goes nowhere. It's (at this point) a six page circle-jerk of I'm-right-and-you're-wrong-no-you're-wrong-and-I'm-right.

    It's an exercise in futility, like people trying to convince others that their favorite color is better.

    Nothing against constructive discourse but this entire thread is a a waste of time & bandwidth. Points have been made, remade, rephrased, reiterated, restated, and regurgitated. It's re-diculous.
    Then don't read it.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 11/27/2009 at 06:44 PM.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottitude View Post
    With or without trolls & flaming, it's pretty easy to see why the other thread exactly like this one but a little less civil was closed; the topic goes nowhere. It's (at this point) a six page circle-jerk of I'm-right-and-you're-wrong-no-you're-wrong-and-I'm-right.

    It's an exercise in futility, like people trying to convince others that their favorite color is better.

    Nothing against constructive discourse but this entire thread is a a waste of time & bandwidth. Points have been made, remade, rephrased, reiterated, restated, and regurgitated. It's re-diculous.
    Yeah, but what is your favorite color?
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Yeah, but what is your favorite color?
    don't answer this one scott....lol.....unless you are looking to find out why your choice of color is wrong
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    I would explain to the kids why the changes are necessary. That discussion would take place prior to implementation instead of just letting them face the facts without a reason.

    To me that approach sounds much better than having the kids coming home crying, telling they were thrown out of the App Store because they are foreigners.
    Amn brother! LOL!

    Palm is on total silence since 1.3.1 update in Europe.


    I just came here to say that I love my Pre but if WebOS internals and this frum don't exist Pre would be a useless piece of crap. For that I want to sincerly thank all the patchers, themers, and "underground" developers.
    Perhaps Palm should start paying you and not their guys.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    don't answer this one scott....lol.....unless you are looking to find out why your choice of color is wrong
    Actually, it was put out there in jest, but good to see certain individual's behavior is consistent.
  20. #120  
    Nascar app had to go #1. I tweak beacause I tweak everything.
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