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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    I'm with Sivan on this. Even though Palm had to release WebOS early, we shouldn't have to depend on what is basically 'outsiders' or even ourselves for that matter to finish what Palm started.
    If that's how the world runs, then i could open up a barber shop and tell people to pay ME, but they will have to either cut their own hair, or look outside the door for somebody else to walk in to cut it for them but still pay me anyway.
    (This, in no way, is to knock the homebrew devs. I respect that ur only trying to help us.)
    Is Palm cutting hair?

    I know, I know, they're not, to help you see my point, I'll use a different analogy.

    I can buy a suit. Some of the places I buy have a tailor on the premises to fit it for me. Some others, do not. Some have a tailor on site but have customers that prefer their own tailor, so they will sell the suit, and let them take it elsewhere to have it fit.

    Which of the shops described above is doing anything wrong?
  2. #62  
    This seems so simple to me.

    Say you are thinking about buying something. You read about it and other competing products. Each product has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

    You decide to buy a certain one.

    Amazingly it has a 30 day return with a full refund.

    (In our case, the Pre has one promised feature, Flash, due by the end of the year but that promise is by Adobe.)

    So after hours and days of playing with your new product and reading the manual and more reviews and forums about competing products as well...

    You decide of your own free will that you will keep the product, as is.

    Even as a kid, if I would have told my parents I got the wrong one, they would have said, "You have to accept responsibility for your own decisions. Be more careful next time."

    Even if I complained constantly for months on end, their reaction would not be to buy me a different product. In fact their reaction would have been kind of the opposite of that.

    What would your parents have told you if you made a bad decision?

    - Craig
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    This seems so simple to me.

    Say you are thinking about buying something. You read about it and other competing products. Each product has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

    You decide to buy a certain one.

    Amazingly it has a 30 day return with a full refund.

    (In our case, the Pre has one promised feature, Flash, due by the end of the year but that promise is by Adobe.)

    So after hours and days of playing with your new product and reading the manual and more reviews and forums about competing products as well...

    You decide of your own free will that you will keep the product, as is.

    Even as a kid, if I would have told my parents I got the wrong one, they would have said, "You have to accept responsibility for your own decisions. Be more careful next time."

    Even if I complained constantly for months on end, their reaction would not be to buy me a different product. In fact their reaction would have been kind of the opposite of that.

    What would your parents have told you if you made a bad decision?

    - Craig
    30 days and I can return the phone?
    Just kidding.

    It is kinda strange that more don't take advantage of that.
    And even more strange that when they don't, they blame Palm.
    Just call me Berd.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    ...
    The song remains the same...but reading this old post, you are clearly viewing webOS as a platform, that is, Palm just needs to put in the plubming and step back for 3rd parties to develop what we need. Back then you also believe that Pimlico and Iambic were not too far off behind with webOS apps. We know how that turned out.
    ...
    I'll address the latter first...
    I have never said that Pimlico (or Iambic) was "not too far off behind with WebOS apps". To the contrary, I have been in contact with the author of DateBk since before the Pre came out, and he has consistently said that he doesn't anticipate coming out with a solution for the Pre, but that his position could change. I've encouraged others to write to him to let him know the demand. I don't know anything about Iambic, because I never used their products or followed them.

    I have said that I believe similar products will fill the gaps, if those publishers don't. I stand by that.

    As a matter of fact, the very thread you are quoting has me saying exactly this (but I guess you were so busy interpreting what I say, you missed it). Here's the exact quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Pimlico can write DateBk for any other platform. Why wait on the Pre?
    From what I hear, they're not. That means that others will have to fill the gap. I suspect that will happen if they don't wake up. I have noticed a lot more chatter on their Yahoo group about the possibilities for the Pre. Basically, the feeling from some appears to be that since the announcement of the Pixie, the Centro is on its way out, and PalmOS is basically dead.
    This was another example of you reading things through your jaundiced eyes.

    Now, to the issue at hand.

    Where in the post you quoted (or any other post from me, for that matter) do you see anything about "unfinished product".

    That's your claim, not mine.

    I think you're wrong, but that's my opinion.

    I like the device I bought. Sorry for your experience. Maybe it's time for you to move on to a device that suits you?
  5.    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Is Palm cutting hair?

    I know, I know, they're not, to help you see my point, I'll use a different analogy.

    I can buy a suit. Some of the places I buy have a tailor on the premises to fit it for me. Some others, do not. Some have a tailor on site but have customers that prefer their own tailor, so they will sell the suit, and let them take it elsewhere to have it fit.

    Which of the shops described above is doing anything wrong?
    I like my analogy better.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Is Palm cutting hair?

    I know, I know, they're not, to help you see my point, I'll use a different analogy.

    I can buy a suit. Some of the places I buy have a tailor on the premises to fit it for me. Some others, do not. Some have a tailor on site but have customers that prefer their own tailor, so they will sell the suit, and let them take it elsewhere to have it fit.

    Which of the shops described above is doing anything wrong?
    I don't like your illustration as well as bpdamas':
    His is a lot better.

    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    With all due respect, but if these were musts for a phone to have and you kept the Pre, then it was a mistake by you. That is like buying a car that you expect to have automatic windows because a lot of cars have them but then thinking it is ridiculous for the car not to have them after you buy it. Then, if you had the option to return the car within 30 days, you didn't return it expecting the manufacturer to hopefully install automatic windows for you. Fortunately, for everyone that wanted automatic windows on their Pre, Sprint allows you to take it back within 30 days. This is much nicer than the auto industry and cars (until recently though were apparently you can take back certain chevys within 30 days).
    Just call me Berd.
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    30 days and I can return the phone?
    Just kidding.

    It is kinda strange that more don't take advantage of that.
    And even more strange that when they don't, they blame Palm.
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    I like my analogy better.
    Nope, You're wrong.

    bpdamas' is the best
    Just call me Berd.
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    This seems so simple to me.

    Say you are thinking about buying something. You read about it and other competing products. Each product has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

    You decide to buy a certain one.

    Amazingly it has a 30 day return with a full refund.

    (In our case, the Pre has one promised feature, Flash, due by the end of the year but that promise is by Adobe.)

    So after hours and days of playing with your new product and reading the manual and more reviews and forums about competing products as well...

    You decide of your own free will that you will keep the product, as is.

    Even as a kid, if I would have told my parents I got the wrong one, they would have said, "You have to accept responsibility for your own decisions. Be more careful next time."

    Even if I complained constantly for months on end, their reaction would not be to buy me a different product. In fact their reaction would have been kind of the opposite of that.

    What would your parents have told you if you made a bad decision?

    - Craig
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    BTW: Mom would have yelled at me, Pops would have taken me out of the house to get away from Mom.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    No, that isn't all.
    Have they never bought a PdaPhone before?
    This is how it goes over and over and over again.

    These Forums are Déjà vu allover again.
    It happens all over in all the forums.

    'This mfg needs to hurry and release this device.
    and then; This mfg shouldn't of released this device.'


    And now this thread isn't any different than all the other "[mfg.] let us Down with this [device] threads.
    Just call me Berd.
  11. #71  
    There is one patch I need, which is the read all/delete all e-mail patch. Otherwise, I am just tweaking for fun.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    Exactly.
  13. #73  
    So you guys waited past your 30 days, because you expected something other than what you already had, and now you're mad at Palm?
    Just call me Berd.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    That problem is "plenty of people"'s problem. What you refer to as basics, I don't need. I don't care that many flip phones have video cameras and the Pre doesn't. I don't need a video camera on my phone. Palm, a small company, focused on what they felt was necessary- and they made their platform pretty open. They hit it right on the head, as far as I'm concernced. Would it be cool to have a camera or a faster calendar? SURE! Do I need those things? Nope. Is Palm working on those things? Probably. But you can be damn well certain that if I NEEDED those things as much as some people claim they NEED those things, I'd have a different phone.

    "Plenty of people" assumed that Palm would be the first company to bring out a product, then radically add functionality within a few months of its release? That's THEIR mistake, not Palm's. Palm, IMO, appears to be working as fast as they can. They've put out multiple updates in the time it takes many companies to start thinking about updates. The product they sold me works great, FOR ME. I can patch and tweak my phone to my heart's content. I love Preware and QI. Use them all the time. I love that about this phone. I can add things that aren't that important but useful. But if I couldn't patch, I'd still think this phone was the best phone for me. I love the platform. I love the UI. Love the web browser and synergy. That's why I own it- because I like it.

    I'm all for offering constructive criticism when it's necessary. I really want Palm to keep improving the platform. But there are way too many, way too loud, chicken little's 'round these parts these days.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    So you guys waited past your 30 days, because you expected something other than what you already had, and now you're mad at Palm?
    I think this is the big misconception on these forums by the obsessive palm supporters, most of the complaints I see on these threads are simply people like dbd and myself who love this phone for its potential and are just a little dissappointed with palm because in this day in age we did not expect to buy a 3 year old iphone.

    I think you guys confuse silmple complaints with the "If palm doesn't do this I am leaving" type! I hung around past my 30 days because I like the phone and want to see it evolve which thanks to patches I have gained the functionality that I need. On the other hand to compare the lack of dozens of simple functions which were left out, to the iphone leaving out copy and paste and mms messaging (3 years ago!!!) is absurd.

    People need to be more open minded here rather than choosing sides, maybe the forum should have been titled "unsatisfied" pre owners rather thatn "unhappy" but we all know what the OP was getting at.

    How many tweaked their phones because they wanted to? and how many did it because they needed to? its that simple, I would say it is probably 50/50 myself I did not want to because I am not too knowledgeable in what I am doing but did it because I had to until palm catches up. Although I did not want to I am happy I did because it was easier than I thought and I have learned a lot in the process, but I still believe I should not have had to.

    Do I hate palm? No!

    Am I dissappointed In palms progress at this point? yes

    Please do not qoute my post and try to discredit my views and my opinions, for these are my views and opinions and it is rude! thank you!

    If you want to qoute me to make a point as I have here fine but do not take my words out of text or try to miscontort their meanings!
    Last edited by tomh1102; 11/25/2009 at 06:03 PM.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    It's just that plenty of people thought (and why shouldn't they?) that the basics would be here by now. That's all, really.
    ...
    Why souldn't they? The better question is why should they? It was a new device. The "basics" were not defined, and still aren't (other than what we got).

    As I've pointed out before (but apparently, at least one person missed the point), Palm's initial 1.x releases didn't have the "basics", at least not the "basics" we eventually ended up with.

    Some of those things Palm added in-house. Some of them Palm bought from 3rd party developers. Some of them the let 3rd party developers fill the void with product.

    This release is following very much the same pattern.

    I was reminded (recently) of Hackmaster for the PalmOS. I'm sure there were "experts" back then as well, decrying the lack of Palm's inclusion of the "basics" that Hackmaster allowed. These experts just remember things differently than what they were.
  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I think this is the big misconception on these forums by the obsessive palm supporters, most of the complaints I see on these threads are simply people like dbd and myself who love this phone for its potential and are just a little dissappointed with palm because in this day in age we did not expect to buy a 3 year old iphone.

    I think you guys confuse silmple complaints with the "If palm doesn't do this I am leaving" type! I hung around past my 30 days because I like the phone and want to see it evolve which thanks to patches I have gained the functionality that I need. On the other hand to compare the lack of dozens of simple functions which were left out, to the iphone leaving out copy and paste and mms messaging (3 years ago!!!) is absurd.

    People need to be more open minded here rather than choosing sides, maybe the forum should have been titled "unsatisfied" pre owners rather thatn "unhappy" but we all know what the OP was getting at.

    How many tweaked their phones because they wanted to? and how many did it because they needed to? its that simple, I would say it is probably 50/50 myself I did not want to because I am not too knowledgeable in what I am doing but did it because I had to until palm catches up. Although I did not want to I am happy I did because it was easier than I thought and I have learned a lot in the process, but I still believe I should not have had to.

    Do I hate palm? No!

    Am I dissappointed In palms progress at this point? yes

    Please do not quote my post and try to discredit my views and my opinions, for these are my views and opinions and it is rude! thank you!

    If you want to quote me to make a point as I have here fine but do not take my words out of text or try to miscontort their meanings!
    And i even wrote a complimentary thread about the Pre just a couple of days ago.
  18. #78  
    Maybe certain expectations were the misconceptions of some.
    Just call me Berd.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    ...
    Please do not qoute my post and try to discredit my views and my opinions, for these are my views and opinions and it is rude! thank you!

    If you want to qoute me to make a point as I have here fine but do not take my words out of text or try to miscontort their meanings!
    No, actually it's not "rude". That's the very reason the forum owners provided the quote capability - to provide context (notice there's a link to the original quote, for anyone that wants to use it)

    I'm surprised that you now say you "love this phone for its potential and are just a little dissappointed with palm because in this day in age we did not expect to buy a 3 year old iphone."

    First of all, that bit of tripe assumes that you bought a 3 year old iphone. If you did, you should have taken it back before it became a 3 year and 30 day old phone!!!, especially in light of the fact that you've continually proclaimed that you're replacing it as soon as your contract is up.

    The point of those "obsessive palm supporters" (only as "obsessive" as the Palm detractors with whom they argue) is that you should have taken it back within that 30 days. Instead, you kept it, and then get on here and berate those that are happy with what they bought. Those that truly do see "the potential".

    BTW, when you use phrases such as "obsessive palm supporters", are you not trying to discredit their views and opinions?

    Just sayin'...
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Maybe certain expectations were the misconceptions of some.
    Why? After all, the value in Palm's brand is about potential and expectations. Otherwise it's just a name. You guys love telling those who waited past the 30 days that they made a mistake, but Palm relied on people to give it credit beyond the 30 days. So now we are being unreasonable?

    And Palm is not required to reinvent PIM all over again so I don't buy the "well, they took a long time to figure it out in the last OS, so it will take a long time again". Problem already solved, the implementation is missing/crippled/neglected.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
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