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  1. Pun
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    #41  
    I can't say all of them, but I would be unhappy with my pre if I didn't have some of the patches I do. Forced Roaming is a must for me, and not being able to forward texts was so stupid (altho that is fixed now)...the LED notifications wasa must also.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I have no problem with the duct tape crowd. It's only with the argument that the unfinished state of the device is a feature, because the user should make the device "their own".
    It's not a matter of calling the unfinished state of the device as a feature. I am not doing this. I am agreeing with the fact that, in my opinion, the OS is indeed unfinished. It does not have simple things that a lot of other phones have, even dumbphones. My point is, that after using the phone for 30 days and finding this out, I still decided to stay with webOS and use the Pre as a phone. If there were no homebrew, tweaks, patches, pimping, etc. I would still be using the Pre as my phone, I just wouldn't have all the benefits and features I am currently experiencing thanks to the homebrew scene.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pun View Post
    I can't say all of them, but I would be unhappy with my pre if I didn't have some of the patches I do. Forced Roaming is a must for me, and not being able to forward texts was so stupid (altho that is fixed now)...the LED notifications wasa must also.
    Right. Exactly. These are musts for you on this phone. These are not options that everyone needs. I don't need them. I am not disagreeing that a finished operating system should have them, just that currently webOS does not and it is obvious after use that it does not.

    With all due respect, but if these were musts for a phone to have and you kept the Pre, then it was a mistake by you. That is like buying a car that you expect to have automatic windows because a lot of cars have them but then thinking it is ridiculous for the car not to have them after you buy it. Then, if you had the option to return the car within 30 days, you didn't return it expecting the manufacturer to hopefully install automatic windows for you. Fortunately, for everyone that wanted automatic windows on their Pre, Sprint allows you to take it back within 30 days. This is much nicer than the auto industry and cars (until recently though were apparently you can take back certain chevys within 30 days).
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    With all due respect, but if these were musts for a phone to have and you kept the Pre, then it was a mistake by you. That is like buying a car that you expect to have automatic windows because a lot of cars have them but then thinking it is ridiculous for the car not to have them after you buy it. Then, if you had the option to return the car within 30 days, you didn't return it expecting the manufacturer to hopefully install automatic windows for you.
    Okay so now everyone that has given Palm some credit and stuck with the device through needs to suck it up because Palm has other priorities? How long will Palm enjoy this privileged position?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I have no problem with the duct tape crowd. It's only with the argument that the unfinished state of the device is a feature, because the user should make the device "their own".
    What "unfinished state" are you talking about? Mine came complete.

    And yes, I know you're going to counter. My point is that what you are calling an "unfinished state" is neither a feture, nor truly a "state". It's simply your opinion of the device. Others have vastly different opinions.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Okay so now everyone that has given Palm some credit and stuck with the device through needs to suck it up because Palm has other priorities? How long will Palm enjoy this privileged position?
    Palm deserves no "privileged position". I believe they should give everything they promised you within the time frame that they promised it.

    What, exactly, did they miss?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Palm deserves no "privileged position". I believe they should give everything they promised you within the time frame that they promised it.

    What, exactly, did they miss?
    Bingo. They didn't really "miss" anything. It's all a matter of perspective.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I have no problem with the duct tape crowd. It's only with the argument that the unfinished state of the device is a feature, because the user should make the device "their own".
    Using that stretch of reasoning then;

    Every PdaPhone out there was released unfinished.
    Just call me Berd.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    What "unfinished state" are you talking about? Mine came complete.

    And yes, I know you're going to counter. My point is that what you are calling an "unfinished state" is neither a feture, nor truly a "state". It's simply your opinion of the device. Others have vastly different opinions.
    I'm sorry but you have consistently said that Palm should work on an SDK first at the expense of finishing the product, because, again according to you, the experience on PalmOS was good thanks to 3rd parties filling in for missing functionality. You do contend that 3rd parties should be brought in to do what Palm won't and so rushing the SDK out is the right thing to do, even at the expense of finishing the product.

    These are not opinions. There are problems with this device, as it's meant to be used as a proper Palm device, in business contexts and also in new interests for Palm, such as multimedia. Performance is terrible. Nearly 6 months in, the device suffers from serious memory and latency problems. These are not opinions.

    You can argue that others deal with these problems just as you are determined to.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Okay so now everyone that has given Palm some credit and stuck with the device through needs to suck it up because Palm has other priorities? How long will Palm enjoy this privileged position?
    No. Don't get mad at Palm or think there is a shortcoming of the system just because you stuck with the phone and are unhappy with it. If it truly didn't meet your needs, return it. If it meets your needs but you feel you deserve more or desire more, please stop complaining. It gets old.

    Also, how did you catch word of Palm's priorities? I googled and searched the entire internet (I know, it took a long time) and couldn't find where they list their priorities. Must have missed that article.
    Last edited by bpdamas; 11/25/2009 at 03:11 PM. Reason: did not know you couldn't say ****ed
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Using that stretch of reasoning then;

    Every PdaPhone out there was released unfinished.
    IIRC, you're still on the fence.

    Why don't you buy the Pre then if it's so great and fine as it is?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    ...
    These are not opinions. There are problems with this device, as it's meant to be used as a proper Palm device, in business contexts and also in new interests for Palm, such as multimedia. Performance is terrible. Nearly 6 months in, the device suffers from serious memory and latency problems. These are not opinions.
    ...
    I get it now. We define problems differently. I see a problem as a function of the phone that does not work properly, not something I dislike about the phone. Latency, battery life, etc are all not problems. They are dislikes you have with what you bought. I don't like the fact that my truck gets 14 miles to the gallon but it definitely is not a problem with the operation of the truck. (don't get mad at me for lying, I don't have a truck)
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    IIRC, you're still on the fence.

    Why don't you buy the Pre then if it's so great and fine as it is?
    There are so many great and fine things I don't own. Why don't I buy them?
  14. gryn's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spader View Post
    I patch because I can.

    I was very happy with my Pre before I even knew I had the option of homebrew apps and patches/tweaks... now I'm just more happy with it.
    "truer words have never been spoken"
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    I get it now. We define problems differently. I see a problem as a function of the phone that does not work properly, not something I dislike about the phone. Latency, battery life, etc are all not problems. They are dislikes you have with what you bought. I don't like the fact that my truck gets 14 miles to the gallon but it definitely is not a problem with the operation of the truck. (don't get mad at me for lying, I don't have a truck)
    That's not a good analogy. When you buy a truck you know what the tradeoffs are and there's only so much that can be done within the constraints of the product. I drive an SUV, mileage sucks, no complaints. I need it to tow stuff, I accept the limitations.

    In contrast, the Pre's problems are not tradeoffs of the type of device but are tradeoffs made by Palm. Tradeoffs for what? I don't have Palm product plan, I'm going by what they are spending effort on. App Catalog, SDK, the Pixi, signing up new carriers. These are sensible things of course, but they come at the expense of quality of the current device and their users.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Using that stretch of reasoning then;

    Every PdaPhone out there was released unfinished.
    Sorry, gotta disagree...

    I'd say every device that has add-on software (and updates) available for it.

    Which is pretty all-encompassing. By the standards that some are attempting to apply to the Pre, I don't want to own a "finished" device.
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by bpdamas View Post
    ....... I don't like the fact that my truck gets 14 miles to the gallon but it definitely is not a problem with the operation of the truck. (don't get mad at me for lying, I don't have a truck)
    -- L I A R !! --
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm sorry but you have consistently said that Palm should work on an SDK first at the expense of finishing the product, because, again according to you, the experience on PalmOS was good thanks to 3rd parties filling in for missing functionality. You do contend that 3rd parties should be brought in to do what Palm won't and so rushing the SDK out is the right thing to do, even at the expense of finishing the product.
    ...
    Actually, I've never said that. That is your intepretation of what I have said. "Missing functionality" and "unfinished product" have vastly different meanings.

    I suspect you're reading just about everything through jaundiced eyes, jaundiced by your dissappointment based your expectations.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, I've never said that. That is your intepretation of what I have said. "Missing functionality" and "unfinished product" have vastly different meanings.
    We've been through this many times already. Here's one of your posts from September (http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pr...ml#post1888503)

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Ease of development. There are almost 300 programs out for the Pre, in less than 4 months. That's on a new OS, on a new phone. Pretty remarkable, to me.

    In addition, I've been able to go in and modify many of the existing programs to suit me. A few of those have been without assistance from others. That's because of the platform.


    Sure I am. Besides the modifications that I've done myself, everytime I use a app written by a developer who was attracted to the Pre because of its platform, I'm benefitting from the platform.
    A good example of this is PDANet on the Treo compared to MyTether on the Pre. Look how fast MyTether came out, and how fast it's evolved. PDANet was a great product, but it's evolution was much slower.

    As for confusion, I think you're simply so blinded by your own dissatisfaction that you're failing to see that others may feel differently...



    From what I hear, they're not. That means that others will have to fill the gap. I suspect that will happen if they don't wake up. I have noticed a lot more chatter on their Yahoo group about the possibilities for the Pre. Basically, the feeling from some appears to be that since the announcement of the Pixie, the Centro is on its way out, and PalmOS is basically dead.



    Because I bought the device and OS, not the software that came on it. Windows comes with an OK text editor, I bought a better one. It also came with a document editor, millions of people buy MS Word. The Treo came with a PIM, hundreds of thousands of people bought Datebk.
    The song remains the same...but reading this old post, you are clearly viewing webOS as a platform, that is, Palm just needs to put in the plubming and step back for 3rd parties to develop what we need. Back then you also believe that Pimlico and Iambic were not too far off behind with webOS apps. We know how that turned out.

    What we have is an unfinished platform that no big developer has shown an interest in and an unfinished product that we live with daily waiting for 3rd party apps to save us.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  20.    #60  
    I'm with Sivan on this. Even though Palm had to release WebOS early, we shouldn't have to depend on what is basically 'outsiders' or even ourselves for that matter to finish what Palm started.
    If that's how the world runs, then i could open up a barber shop and tell people to pay ME, but they will have to either cut their own hair, or look outside the door for somebody else to walk in to cut it for them but still pay me anyway.
    (This, in no way, is to knock the homebrew devs. I respect that ur only trying to help us.)
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