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  1. gbp
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    #281  
    There is not much of a difference between one blackberry and the other.
    Are they going touchscreen ( not the storm).
    Did they fix their browser ?

    Its still the same device. Same old same old.
    Talk about innovation.
  2. #282  
    I don't think I need a touchscreen. No, they haven't fixed the browser yet and there's not much innovation going on.

    But I'm not sure how much of the Pre innovation is actually useful.
  3. #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I don't think I need a touchscreen. No, they haven't fixed the browser yet and there's not much innovation going on.

    But I'm not sure how much of the Pre innovation is actually useful.
    And yet, you bought the Pre, and not the BB.
  4. Xyg
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    #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    You can't target everyone, that's an oxymoron.



    Even a phone is a natural extension of having an address book on your device, which is a core function of a PDA. I remember seeing this, as well as the reviews and thinking, finally. Just dialing the contact you referenced in your calendar or emailed with. It made perfect sense for a PDA to grow a phone and be able to access email.



    The iPhone is really the first convergence device, a different mythological beast. And Palm could do this, if it had its own mature OS with the same capabilities as OS X. Apple brought its desktop OS to the device, Palm didn't. So where should Palm start from? I think the Pre is a decent media player and has a very good browser. But those are there because the components were available for Palm to port easily from open source. Eventually, Palm could have its own convergence device, but it would require a lot of work, just what Apple has done at the earlier part of the decade. They don't have the same foundation, so Palm has to economize and has to focus instead of targetting everyone and doing everything.



    They can pick one, and I am just discussing a focus, not exclusion of everything else. They made an attempt at connectivity and multiple calendaring but they got bogged down in aesthetics and threw efficiency out the window.

    I would expect them to do one thing very well, have a story, and do other things pretty well and expand on them gradually. But first differentiate and creat a solid base around one easy to understand principle. Multitasking and cards are just UI schemes. By now Synergy has already been emulated because it wasn't that hard to do. But only RIM and to some extent WM still emphasize efficiency, only they are stuck with old OSs.



    A convergence device on the scale of the iPhone, a first back in 2007, didn't need to target much. It just blew people's minds away.



    Nope. I'm saying it should start with doing one thing very well, and expand on the others gradually. First have a well defined product, that incidentally doesn't force users to compromise much on non-core functionality. And Palm came quite close, they just got bogged down in aesthetics.
    You talk a lot in vague generalities. If you could specify:

    1) How the Pre differs from the iPhone as a convergence device,

    2) How, exactly, Palm threw efficiency out the window,

    3) Detail exactly how the BlackBerry and WinMo operating systems lend themselves more to efficiency,

    4) And in which areas specifically you find webOS to be lacking, and which areas specifically you would like to see Palm improve to make this the ideal phone for you
  5. #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    You talk a lot in vague generalities. If you could specify:

    1) How the Pre differs from the iPhone as a convergence device,

    2) How, exactly, Palm threw efficiency out the window,

    3) Detail exactly how the BlackBerry and WinMo operating systems lend themselves more to efficiency,

    4) And in which areas specifically you find webOS to be lacking, and which areas specifically you would like to see Palm improve to make this the ideal phone for you
    lol....maybe if you read the first 286 posts in this thread
  6. #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    lol....maybe if you read the first 286 posts in this thread
    lol
    Blaize, Mistress of Verbosity



    Be nice until it's time to not be nice.--Dalton, "Roadhouse"
  7. Xyg
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    #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    lol....maybe if you read the first 286 posts in this thread
    Actually, after reading the first 286 posts in this thread, none of the posts go into specifics about much of anything.
  8. #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    You talk a lot in vague generalities. If you could specify:

    1) How the Pre differs from the iPhone as a convergence device,

    2) How, exactly, Palm threw efficiency out the window,

    3) Detail exactly how the BlackBerry and WinMo operating systems lend themselves more to efficiency,

    4) And in which areas specifically you find webOS to be lacking, and which areas specifically you would like to see Palm improve to make this the ideal phone for you
    Well, you should probably just read all my posts available via my profile.

    But briefly, what should Palm do to make webOS work for me is cut down on animations and eliminate the memory issues and lags, at least in PIM apps so I can enter and lookup data quickly. I understand that they are attracting newer users with flashy animations but to users coming from older Palm OS devices and are interested in business features the bling just gets in the way. It's not just a matter of being impatient, I need to work with the device quickly when interacting with people and incoming messages in real time. And I need comprehensive search and efficient UIs for complex data like calendaring.

    Universal search can be the alternative UI for experienced users and it's a good start but it needs to do much more, and the keyboard is barely utilized for quick navigation and shortcuts.

    I could write more but need to preserve some of that for the next member who asks me to explain everything to them, so I'll leave you with a few video comparisons on device usability:







    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9.    #289  
    Maybe the Pre video is still playing.
  10. gbp
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    #290  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyg View Post
    Actually, after reading the first 286 posts in this thread, none of the posts go into specifics about much of anything.
    Yes, I agree specifics please.
    I can't stand the BB.
    One trick pony.
    Can it do anything better than email ?

    Browser ? Nope,
    Touch Screen ? Nope ( save for the STORM).
    UI Navigation ? hmm least ten year old.


    And WinMo ? does everything , but requires reboots on hourly basis.
    The browser is time wrapped circa 1999.
    You have to sing , dance and pray before opening any APPS.

    And use the task manager often to kill programs.

    I used to reboot ( take battery out in the case of 800w) my WinMo phones everyday.
    I do not reboot my Pre on a daily basis.

    The point that PALM ignored the PIM is very well taken.
    And the hardware quality issue can't be ignored.
    The rest can be fixed with time.
    If you can't wait for PALM, then return the phone.

    Move on folks , will ya.
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by gbp View Post
    Yes, I agree specifics please.
    I can't stand the BB.
    One trick pony.
    Can it do anything better than email ?

    Browser ? Nope,
    Touch Screen ? Nope ( save for the STORM).
    UI Navigation ? hmm least ten year old.


    And WinMo ? does everything , but requires reboots on hourly basis.
    The browser is time wrapped circa 1999.
    You have to sing , dance and pray before opening any APPS.

    And use the task manager often to kill programs.

    I used to reboot ( take battery out in the case of 800w) my WinMo phones everyday.
    I do not reboot my Pre on a daily basis.

    The point that PALM ignored the PIM is very well taken.
    And the hardware quality issue can't be ignored.
    The rest can be fixed with time.
    If you can't wait for PALM, then return the phone.

    Move on folks , will ya.
    I think everybody agrees with you here the problem that some have here is stated over and over in this forum "JUST WAIT" "IT'S A NEW OS"

    since when did the become acceptable?

    it's the people who have been saying just wait who are the reason people stay past 30 days, congratulations they waited now you can listen to their complaints. I too was saying just wait 6 months ago, now I am saying F this! the new OS and palm released the phone early because of the 3gs crap has played out too long.

    Any person who says this phone does not have issues is full of themselves, I call a spade a spade. If I can tweak a phone for fun than great, if I have to tweak a phone to gain simple functionality expected of a phone in 2009 (let alone a so called smartphone) screw that.

    Thanks to the community for working so hard to make this phone functional with all of the patches and tweaks, but as far as Palm goes there is no thanks there.
  12. #292  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I think everybody agrees with you here the problem that some have here is stated over and over in this forum "JUST WAIT" "IT'S A NEW OS"

    since when did the become acceptable?

    it's the people who have been saying just wait who are the reason people stay past 30 days, congratulations they waited now you can listen to their complaints. I too was saying just wait 6 months ago, now I am saying F this! the new OS and palm released the phone early because of the 3gs crap has played out too long.

    Any person who says this phone does not have issues is full of themselves, I call a spade a spade. If I can tweak a phone for fun than great, if I have to tweak a phone to gain simple functionality expected of a phone in 2009 (let alone a so called smartphone) screw that.

    Thanks to the community for working so hard to make this phone functional with all of the patches and tweaks, but as far as Palm goes there is no thanks there.
    It's not acceptable...to me. 1.x plus the hardware issues meant going back to the iphone for me. The first iphone wasn't acceptable to me either. Haven't seen an android 1.x device i'd want to use either.

    This is early adopter time. Lots to be tolerant of but can be fun.

    I'm still here because i do have a couple of Pre's on a plan (sister and wife) and i've been here for years. My wife obviously sees it better than her old Centros due to web browser and the like. Not a power user at all though. These types of users combined with early adopters who like new things are the users at the moment. I also understand these type of users having problems with losing contacts, because they're not really taking advantage of synergy, but mainly like the browser, apps, camera, etc.

    Hopefully the next version whether the Pre or a new form factor combined with 2.x will be enough for me.
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    It's not acceptable...to me. 1.x plus the hardware issues meant going back to the iphone for me. The first iphone wasn't acceptable to me either. Haven't seen an android 1.x device i'd want to use either.

    This is early adopter time. Lots to be tolerant of but can be fun.

    I'm still here because i do have a couple of Pre's on a plan (sister and wife) and i've been here for years. My wife obviously sees it better than her old Centros due to web browser and the like. Not a power user at all though. These types of users combined with early adopters who like new things are the users at the moment.

    Hopefully the next version whether the Pre or a new form factor combined with 2.x will be enough for me.
    The difference here is that the first iphone was a ground breaking device whereas the pre is a copycat device. Apple did something no company had done yet, they paved the road of course they would hit a few bumps. Outside of multitasking palm just drove down the road apple paved. As far as android goes android is used by many companies and you can not hold google responsible for poor efforts from companies who built crappy phones and used the android OS.
  14. gbp
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    #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I think everybody agrees with you here the problem that some have here is stated over and over in this forum "JUST WAIT" "IT'S A NEW OS"

    since when did the become acceptable?
    Since folks started making cell phones way back in the 60s ? maybe.
    If folks didn't accept the first ever cell phone for the simple reason that they didn't have things they wanted , we wouldn't be talking here.


    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post

    Thanks to the community for working so hard to make this phone functional with all of the patches and tweaks, but as far as Palm goes there is no thanks there.
    Agree , thanks to precentral , but again precentral wouldn't exist without Pre. So thank PALM for that.

    Back to your another post about PALM is following the APPLE paved way, Since when it is APPLE way ?
  15. #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    The difference here is that the first iphone was a ground breaking device whereas the pre is a copycat device. Apple did something no company had done yet, they paved the road of course they would hit a few bumps. Outside of multitasking palm just drove down the road apple paved. As far as android goes android is used by many companies and you can not hold google responsible for poor efforts from companies who built crappy phones and used the android OS.
    The first iphone was a groundbreaking limited FEATURE phone. Wasn't enough for me no matter how nice some of those features were. No apps. No 3G. Wasn't a smartphone. Very buggy. I still remember those 6 hour syncs with itunes..

    I'm an iphone 3GS user but its still got its share of shortcomings.

    Multitasking for the Pre, as you said, is a big difference in how you use it as opposed to the iphone.

    Can you open the SMS app in the iphone and receive IM messages? Or have integrated messaging..

    Does the iphone pull in facebook (or other) contacts?

    Does the iphone do OTA updates?

    Does the iphone's notifications still suck?

    Can you use only one exchange account on the iphone?

    Does the iphone have integrated email? Calendars? Contacts?

    Does apple in any way support homebrew apps or patches?
  16. Xyg
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    #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Well, you should probably just read all my posts available via my profile.

    But briefly, what should Palm do to make webOS work for me is cut down on animations and eliminate the memory issues and lags, at least in PIM apps so I can enter and lookup data quickly. I understand that they are attracting newer users with flashy animations but to users coming from older Palm OS devices and are interested in business features the bling just gets in the way. It's not just a matter of being impatient, I need to work with the device quickly when interacting with people and incoming messages in real time. And I need comprehensive search and efficient UIs for complex data like calendaring.

    Universal search can be the alternative UI for experienced users and it's a good start but it needs to do much more, and the keyboard is barely utilized for quick navigation and shortcuts.

    I could write more but need to preserve some of that for the next member who asks me to explain everything to them, so I'll leave you with a few video comparisons on device usability:







    Oh fun, you posted some videos. Do you expect me to extrapolate your argument from them? I'm not going to play - I want you, in your words, to give me specific examples on how you think the UI is lacking compared to other platforms from HI and UX perspective.

    Go ahead, give it a try. You might be surprised.

    And for those who don't think that Palm understands their target audience, or even felt that they needed to replicate 100% of the functionality of their previous OS should take a watch of this video from the Sprint Open Developers Conference where Palms head of HI gives a presentation for some perspective - something that is sorely lacking in this thread.

    There also seems to be an undercurrent of incorrect thought in this thread: that because Palm failed to cater to your specific needs,the company is somehow shortsighted or is destined for failure. I point to my previous comment about perspective.
  17. #297  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    The first iphone was a groundbreaking limited FEATURE phone. Wasn't enough for me no matter how nice some of those features were. No apps. No 3G. Wasn't a smartphone. Very buggy. I still remember those 6 hour syncs with itunes..

    I'm an iphone 3GS user but its still got its share of shortcomings.

    Multitasking for the Pre, as you said, is a big difference in how you use it as opposed to the iphone.

    Can you open the SMS app in the iphone and receive IM messages? Or have integrated messaging..

    Does the iphone pull in facebook (or other) contacts?

    Does the iphone do OTA updates?

    Does the iphone's notifications still suck?

    Can you use only one exchange account on the iphone?

    Does the iphone have integrated email? Calendars? Contacts?

    Does apple in any way support homebrew apps or patches?
    back on topic here:

    Have you jailbroken you iphone 3gs? because much like the pre many of the issues can be worked out through this, even multitasking.

    not trying to say the pre is et worst phone in the world here , just saying that it fell short of the hype it got so lets not let it ruin our day ok guys.
  18. #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardfan View Post
    The first iphone was a groundbreaking limited FEATURE phone. Wasn't enough for me no matter how nice some of those features were. No apps. No 3G. Wasn't a smartphone. Very buggy. I still remember those 6 hour syncs with itunes..

    I'm an iphone 3GS user but its still got its share of shortcomings.

    Multitasking for the Pre, as you said, is a big difference in how you use it as opposed to the iphone.

    Can you open the SMS app in the iphone and receive IM messages? Or have integrated messaging..

    Does the iphone pull in facebook (or other) contacts?

    Does the iphone do OTA updates?

    Does the iphone's notifications still suck?

    Can you use only one exchange account on the iphone?

    Does the iphone have integrated email? Calendars? Contacts?

    Does apple in any way support homebrew apps or patches?
    back on topic here:

    Have you jailbroken you iphone 3gs? because much like the pre many of the issues can be worked out through this, even multitasking.

    not trying to say the pre is the worst phone in the world here , just saying that it fell short of the hype it got so lets not let it ruin our day ok guys.
  19. #299  
    [QUOTE=gbp;2080074]Since folks started making cell phones way back in the 60s ? maybe.
    If folks didn't accept the first ever cell phone for the simple reason that they didn't have things they wanted , we wouldn't be talking here.

    so what exactly is your beef with people posting complaints on this site? and why is it so necessary to shoot down their perspective?

    I think we both (according to this last statement of yours) agree that criticism leads to innovation.

    so do you not want to see the pre advance from its current state?
  20. gbp
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    #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    back on topic here:

    Have you jailbroken you iphone 3gs? because much like the pre many of the issues can be worked out through this, even multitasking.

    not trying to say the pre is et worst phone in the world here , just saying that it fell short of the hype it got so lets not let it ruin our day ok guys.
    Do you have a video (or on youtube) that shows the multitasking of iphone3GS after jailbreaking.

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