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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    This is not about me. I provided quotes and a few points for discussion about whether there is a coherent plan that Palm is following.
    Of course it's "about you". You posted an asinine question about "throwing a hissy fit", then try to pretend you're having some serious, high-level, intellectual discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I asked for a clear definition of who Palm's customers are and how to explain the state of webOS, the apps and the devices based on it.

    To me it seems that Palm doesn't have a clear idea who their customers are, nor are they executing according to a master plan that makes sense only to a select few.
    As I pointed out to you, the quotes are from an investor, that are not from Palm.

    Personally, I don't see how who Palm is targeting has much effect on me one way or the other. I already have mine, and it works.

    When you bought yours, who did you think it was being sold to? 30 days later, when you could still return it, who did you think it was being sold to. If that person was unhappy, he/she/it should have taken it back.
  2. #182  
    So can anyone explain the current state of the Pre, the missing features, performance problems and gratuitous animations as part of a plan or targeting of some type of new customer?
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So can anyone explain the current state of the Pre, the missing features, performance problems and gratuitous animations as part of a plan or targeting of some type of new customer?
    Palm was targeting a pay check thats it!!!! this is not as much about customer satisfaction to palm as it is about making a quick dollar to save the company and maybe provide support in the future.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 12/02/2009 at 01:38 PM. Reason: instigating a riotous frenzy :)
  4.    #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    Palm was targeting a pay check thats it!!!! this is not as much about customer satisfaction .......
    Hey Tom, where've you been? Sivan has been fighting all by himself here. You left him all to himself to fend off HP. (and he's doing very well, as always) - (nothing against HP, of course. A thread always has more kick when he's in it, whether we like it or not.)
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 12/02/2009 at 01:56 PM.
  5. #185  
    To tie this back to the original topic.

    Recalling the master excuse for missing features, as a necessary overture toward Palm's new customer, presumably a consumer who needs things dumbed down a little, how to explain the other great feature postulated, that hacking and tweaking the Pre is a big selling point.

    How can this customer who needs a dumb device on one hand be courted with so-called power user features on the other? Is this some ingenious pandering to a wish to become a power user?
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    So can anyone explain the current state of the Pre, the missing features, performance problems and gratuitous animations as part of a plan or targeting of some type of new customer?
    Yeah, assuming there are missing features, that there performance issues (that are deliberate), and that the animations are gratuitious...
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    Palm was targeting a pay check thats it!!!! this is not as much about customer satisfaction to palm as it is about making a quick dollar to save the company and maybe provide support in the future.
    The purpose of every for-profit company is to target a "pay check". If they are not, they are failing their investors.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    To tie this back to the original topic.

    Recalling the master excuse for missing features, as a necessary overture toward Palm's new customer, presumably a consumer who needs things dumbed down a little, how to explain the other great feature postulated, that hacking and tweaking the Pre is a big selling point.
    ...
    Where did you get the idea that deliberately removing features, or "dumbing things down" was an overture, or is even being done?

    Seriously, this is simply a straw man effort. You are presuming something that doesn't appear to be true...
  9. #189  
    Mod note- Arguments in threads like these are a guarantee. If you see anyone who is allowing personal attacks to be their mode of retort rather than using facts, please report the post.

    However, it is not okay to report a post simply because you disagree with a certain poster. If you as a user do not want to see any retorts to your comments, you probably should stick to comments that cannot be argued, like gravity, and H20. Otherwise, as long as users are civil, we are not going to curtail their freedom to express themselves.
    Last edited by pogeypre; 12/02/2009 at 02:38 PM.
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  10. #190  
    I am an unhappy pre owner and i patch because I need the things that Palm left out,The fact is that webos is just still not ready for the masses and because palm is basically going out of business and believe me there are I own palm stock and it gets worse everyday they rushed out this ****y phone that was poorly made and a barely complete os for it.I mean its 6 months in to the launch and the haven't even opened up the sdk to developers yet is just a crok of **** in it self.Most of the apps in there so called app catalog are redundant and made by the homebrew community .Do they really think that developers are going to wait around till they feel like ok we might let you start making quality apps,and the worst part about it is that every one keeps say oh wait till it gets going but who the hell knows when that will be if it even does .Now that i paid full price for the pre which seems to be going no where fast and the fact that the homebrew community is doing what palm should be doing its a wonder why there stock is going down the ****er.There own backup system doesn't even work so the only way i can be sure that my data is backed up is to buy some 3rd party $40 app is lame.Its time for a community uprising stop letting palm sell you a pipe dream because thats what it is none of us know if the gpu will ever work none of us know if they will ever have quality apps and what if they dont then what are you gona say oh wiat till the pre2.0 cause im sure as hell not.
    just my 2 cents
  11. tejoe's Avatar
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    #191  
    I think this thread details the dilemma palm faced with pre there are 4 factions here those that wanted an updated treo, those that wanted an iphone clone(1 upper), those that just wanted something fresh and new, and palm loyalist.
    i fit in the last 2 sorta
    i think most in this thread fit in the first and third category
    I believe that there is no phone out there that if on modern hadware could compete with palm os except in eas(something i don't use nod to blackberry)
    i believe that palm should of went native c/c++ and give developers a window to do javascript and html
    I believe we have a right to push and mold this phone into what we see fit whether through complaining or patches
    but in saying that most arguments against palm in this thread are spilled milk arguments the calender sucks yes but will that be the downfall of palm no
    the system is laggy is that something that can't be fixed no it can be and they are taking steps to address it(recent hires)
    Are they currently at least the 3rd best os on the market today starting from scratch i dare you to name 3 better(excluding palm os because like latin its dead)
    So if you believe that palm has A.screw'd you over B.Not meet your needs C.Is just not what you though it was going to be, and there is no way palm has changed your mind that they have been working with the recent moves they has made
    then i would suggest taking the free market approach and take your business else were
    and on a psychological approach don't yell your dissent from the top on the rooftops it only makes the loyalist more loyal and yell louder and who wants that never ending cycle
    Last edited by tejoe; 12/02/2009 at 02:17 PM. Reason: wording change
  12. tejoe's Avatar
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    #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by o0otoxic View Post
    I am an unhappy pre owner and i patch because I need the things that Palm left out,The fact is that webos is just still not ready for the masses and because palm is basically going out of business and believe me there are I own palm stock and it gets worse everyday they rushed out this ****y phone that was poorly made and a barely complete os for it.I mean its 6 months in to the launch and the haven't even opened up the sdk to developers yet is just a crok of **** in it self.Most of the apps in there so called app catalog are redundant and made by the homebrew community .Do they really think that developers are going to wait around till they feel like ok we might let you start making quality apps,and the worst part about it is that every one keeps say oh wait till it gets going but who the hell knows when that will be if it even does .Now that i paid full price for the pre which seems to be going no where fast and the fact that the homebrew community is doing what palm should be doing its a wonder why there stock is going down the ****er.There own backup system doesn't even work so the only way i can be sure that my data is backed up is to buy some 3rd party $40 app is lame.Its time for a community uprising stop letting palm sell you a pipe dream because thats what it is none of us know if the gpu will ever work none of us know if they will ever have quality apps and what if they dont then what are you gona say oh wiat till the pre2.0 cause im sure as hell not.
    just my 2 cents
    How long have you had palm stock because if you had it any length of time before webos was announced you would be might happy with its performance now it was a dollar stock for a while there

    second what features is it missing and compared to what and if you have an answer to that why didn't you get that phone

    redundant apps well lets see the only companies that that have comparable app delivery systems might have that same redundancy issue so good look finding a provider that suits your needs there

    the sdk though i do agree the sdk is lacking the dev's have done a great job with the tools they are given i see a lot of 5 and 4 star apps in the catalog so instead of knocking palm could we give a hand to the dev's

    there are many back-up solutions that dont cost $40 dollars check the forums i had a desktop client before Palm desktop i also had corrupt data,bad sync cables, and busted hard drives. I'm quite peachy in a cloud and have google as redundancy(thats a good place for this word)

    i just want to say i wish you luck on your next phone purchase and i would suggest staying away from palm since they have treated you so horribly
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by tejoe View Post
    I think this thread details the dilemma palm faced with pre there are 4 factions here those that wanted an updated treo, those that wanted an iphone clone(1 upper), those that just wanted something fresh and new, and palm loyalist.
    ...
    I have to say 2 things to this:
    1. I never realized how much lack of capitilization and punctuation in a post makes my head hurt
    2. Other than #1, very good points all around.


  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by o0otoxic View Post
    I am an unhappy pre owner and i patch because I need the things that Palm left out,The fact is that webos is just still not ready for the masses and because palm is basically going out of business and believe me there are I own palm stock and it gets worse everyday they rushed out this ****y phone that was poorly made and a barely complete os for it.I mean its 6 months in to the launch and the haven't even opened up the sdk to developers yet is just a crok of **** in it self.Most of the apps in there so called app catalog are redundant and made by the homebrew community .Do they really think that developers are going to wait around till they feel like ok we might let you start making quality apps,and the worst part about it is that every one keeps say oh wait till it gets going but who the hell knows when that will be if it even does .Now that i paid full price for the pre which seems to be going no where fast and the fact that the homebrew community is doing what palm should be doing its a wonder why there stock is going down the ****er.There own backup system doesn't even work so the only way i can be sure that my data is backed up is to buy some 3rd party $40 app is lame.Its time for a community uprising stop letting palm sell you a pipe dream because thats what it is none of us know if the gpu will ever work none of us know if they will ever have quality apps and what if they dont then what are you gona say oh wiat till the pre2.0 cause im sure as hell not.
    just my 2 cents
    +1 some very good points here toxic
  15. tejoe's Avatar
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    #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I have to say 2 things to this:
    1. I never realized how much lack of capitilization and punctuation in a post makes my head hurt
    2. Other than #1, very good points all around.


    You can blame college,youth,and the internet, for my less then enthusiastic use of proper grammar.(A complete and complex sentence with punctuation.)

    EDIT:first and last
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by tejoe View Post
    You can blame college,youth,and the internet, for my less then enthusiastic use of proper grammar.(A complete and complex sentence with punctuation.)
    Ahhhh, relief. My head just stopped hurting.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by tejoe View Post
    How long have you had palm stock because if you had it any length of time before webos was announced you would be might happy with its performance now it was a dollar stock for a while there

    second what features is it missing and compared to what and if you have an answer to that why didn't you get that phone

    redundant apps well lets see the only companies that that have comparable app delivery systems might have that same redundancy issue so good look finding a provider that suits your needs there

    the sdk though i do agree the sdk is lacking the dev's have done a great job with the tools they are given i see a lot of 5 and 4 star apps in the catalog so instead of knocking palm could we give a hand to the dev's

    there are many back-up solutions that dont cost $40 dollars check the forums i had a desktop client before Palm desktop i also had corrupt data,bad sync cables, and busted hard drives. I'm quite peachy in a cloud and have google as redundancy(thats a good place for this word)

    i just want to say i wish you luck on your next phone purchase and i would suggest staying away from palm since they have treated you so horribly
    let see as for features we just got the froward for the messaging which is basic in any phone on the market in the crappy free phones and landscape for email which just about every state of the art phone can now do but the pre except with a patch the fact they you still cant set ring tones for message alerts .2nd i should have to worry about installing a free 3rd party back up app if palms cloud doesn't work then they should have at least fixed that asap,and 3rd I ve owned palm stock since it was close to 20 bucks a share and wheres it at now around 10 and no i wont be buying the pre 2.0 i shouldn't have to buy a new phone just the get the **** that should have been on this one,and last yeah other phones might have redundant apps to but the still have a lot of quality apps
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by o0otoxic View Post
    let see as for features we just got the froward for the messaging which is basic in any phone on the market in the crappy free phones and landscape for email which just about every state of the art phone can now do but the pre except with a patch the fact they you still cant set ring tones for message alerts .2nd i should have to worry about installing a free 3rd party back up app if palms cloud doesn't work then they should have at least fixed that asap,and 3rd I ve owned palm stock since it was close to 20 bucks a share and wheres it at now around 10 and no i wont be buying the pre 2.0 i shouldn't have to buy a new phone just the get the **** that should have been on this one,and last yeah other phones might have redundant apps to but the still have a lot of quality apps
    couple more good points there
  19. #199  
    Just to back Pogey up....

    There is a big difference between debating and flaming.

    Get Back on Topic! Stay on Topic! and Do Not Call out Members to Join against another.

    If you can't debate a subject without letting your anger get the best of you, it might be good to step away and find a different topic/thread.

    -Berd
    Just call me Berd.
  20. tejoe's Avatar
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    #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by o0otoxic View Post
    let see as for features we just got the froward for the messaging which is basic in any phone on the market in the crappy free phones and landscape for email which just about every state of the art phone can now do but the pre except with a patch the fact they you still cant set ring tones for message alerts .2nd i should have to worry about installing a free 3rd party back up app if palms cloud doesn't work then they should have at least fixed that asap,and 3rd I ve owned palm stock since it was close to 20 bucks a share and wheres it at now around 10 and no i wont be buying the pre 2.0 i shouldn't have to buy a new phone just the get the **** that should have been on this one,and last yeah other phones might have redundant apps to but the still have a lot of quality apps
    feisty i like
    one company just gets cut and paste(basic of smartphones) another just gets multi touch(the new basic on smartphones) another just gets a candy bar phone(smh what most consider a smartphone to look like) and none of those companies are named palm

    are you honestly judging your phone on other state of the art phones not on what your phone( that you researched, that you paid full price for, that you have stock in the company so you have financial interest in knowing what going on with your phone) can do for you

    i always wonder how can you fix a problem you didn't know about you can only makes steps prevent and be redundant(there it goes again).

    this is not personal but to say you shouldn't have to buy a new phone to get the features you need is completely true you shouldn't have bought your old phone in the first place

    i agree that the pre is a piece of **** for what you need in a phone but i would suggest checking the sister sites forums and realizes its not all green grass over there either

    edit: and in conclusion that why i think patches are needed (staying on topic)
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