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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
    You honestly expected the app catalog to be out of beta by now? You are delusional. I'm sorry. You are not being realistic. If you honestly thought that a phone which had only been under development for about a year, and now 5 months after its release would be on the same plane as the iPhone or Android you will only continue to be disapointed.

    My expectations? A year to 1.5 years before I seriously believe Palm will be competing on a level playing field with the iPhone and Android. If they aren't, they will likely go out of business or be bought by someone like Nokia.

    People have just gone completely insane on this stuff. It took APPLE a year before they released an app catalog. The Droid doesn't even have multi-touch yet. Yet they expect Palm to have everything.
    I think "delusional" might be a bit stiff... I honestly expected it to be out of beta by now, but I don't view that shortfall as a dealbreaker.

    I did not expect it to be on the same plane as the iPhone or Android by any means (I know you weren't speaking directly to me, but don't think for a minute that'll stop me...)

    I think it's kind of interesting watching what Palm's doing, I don't know for sure how they're going to fare, but I believe they'll do fine. The smartphone industry is just now coming into its own, and the current market share is so small (compared the potential market) that while some may dominate now, no one company "owns" the market, and likely never will.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    You're sort of reaching now, don't you think? What sort of person? Well, let's see, I work for the government in IT. I've lost count of the Microsoft and Novell certifications I hold. I ride a GoldWing for my secondary hobby, but my primary one is sailing. I hold a US Coast Guard 50 ton masters (that the technical term for a Captain's License). I have 6 grandkids that I do something with every weekend (not all at once, and not all eveyr weekend, we take turns - one of them lives with her mother, my wife, and I, so that makes it easier). This last weekend, I went with 3 of them (and two of my four daughters) to a semi-local wildlife park to see the animals. We were all amazed at the quality of shots I got on the Pre. The day before, I spent with two of the grandsons with their parents for a birthday dinner. We don't get to see them quite as often, so it was a good time.


    But I digress... What I do think is "pathetic" is that you whine about the number of posts I make, and then try to turn it around when you see the numbers. Yes, mine stretch over a long period, but if yours are greater in a short period, that means that during the time we've both been on here - you've been posting more than I. So, pathetic though I may be, I'm pretty happy with things.

    You, on the other hand, sound as if you're not...
    actually you have averaged 1.24 posts a day over a 6 year period I have averaged 1.59 over a 4 month period. I was only trying to point out that it is only .35 of 1 post in a thread but since I am knew to this phone hacking stuff I have spent a lot of time on here in the last 3 months learning new things. Although I enjoy educating myself on new subjects I do not plan on doing at this consistencey for much longer.

    but hey all bickering aside lets just try to stick to the pre from here on out and not get personal
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    ...
    I am sure if you read these forums a lot you have noticed that this is a very big trend right now and growing. The amount of time it is taking palm is costing them customers! big deal right? move on thats what I keep hearing. Wrong, loss of customers means less accessories sold, less apses sold and less referrals for palm. this spells trouble developers will not develop apps for a dying platform, and palm will have less revenue to incorporate into the advancement of web os.
    "Reading these forums" tell you nothing about what the "big trends" are. The sampling is entirely too small, and the background noise is to loud. There are many happy Pre owners out there. Forums tend to attract the dissatisfied, and even with that, all of the polls on here indicate the users are overwhelmingly satisfied. A few disgruntled users making a lot of noise does not make for a "trend"...
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    actually you have averaged 1.24 posts a day over a 6 year period I have averaged 1.59 over a 4 month period. I was only trying to point out that it is only .35 of 1 post in a thread but since I am knew to this phone hacking stuff I have spent a lot of time on here in the last 3 months learning new things. Although I enjoy educating myself on new subjects I do not plan on doing at this consistencey for much longer.

    but hey all bickering aside lets just try to stick to the pre from here on out and not get personal
    Actually, I would say from your posts (which are very easy to view) you haven't been doing nearly as much learning as you have complaining. No opinion there, just a fact.

    You seem to have reached a decision, and that's fine. You obviously are free to post your opinion about that as well; however, I'm as free to post counter arguments to some of the nonsense I continue to see on here.

    As far as being "personal", here's a hint. Don't call someone out by name if you don't want it personal.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    "Reading these forums" tell you nothing about what the "big trends" are. The sampling is entirely too small, and the background noise is to loud. There are many happy Pre owners out there. Forums tend to attract the dissatisfied, and even with that, all of the polls on here indicate the users are overwhelmingly satisfied. A few disgruntled users making a lot of noise does not make for a "trend"...
    well I am a numbers kind of guy and I go off of what the numbers I see look like. Going by the complaints I see in the treads, the quick rise and than fizzle in palm stock, the high return rate of defective pre, the high rate of people switching to droid, and finally derek's article followed by the 150 comments I read. This is not a good sign my friend people are getting frustrated and dropping out at increasing rates and if palm does not make some big moves here they will lose all of their momentum.

    Kind of like a football team trying to make a come back in the forth quarter and they give up an interception for a touchdown. Momentum is very important if palm does not gain some back soon it does not look good for us early adopters.

    I am not saying that palm will go out of business, but that their chance to sit on top with apple will be done.

    Do you really believe that palm is the only company working to improve their OS or devices?

    Do you think apple and droid are gonna stop and wait for palm to catch up?

    Do you think RIM, symbian and microsft jut quit?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, I would say from your posts (which are very easy to view) you haven't been doing nearly as much learning as you have complaining. No opinion there, just a fact.

    You seem to have reached a decision, and that's fine. You obviously are free to post your opinion about that as well; however, I'm as free to post counter arguments to some of the nonsense I continue to see on here.

    As far as being "personal", here's a hint. Don't call someone out by name if you don't want it personal.
    I know that
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    ...
    I am not saying that palm will go out of business, but that their chance to sit on top with apple will be done.

    Do you really believe that palm is the only company working to improve their OS or devices?

    Do you think apple and droid are gonna stop and wait for palm to catch up?

    Do you think RIM, symbian and microsft jut quit?
    If Palm doesn't go out of business, they are miles ahead of where they were a year ago.

    Their stock hasn't "fizzled", unless you look solely at the short term.

    I don't not believe that Palm is the only company working to improve their OS or devices, but I do believe they are the only company that currently is working on something truly innovative.

    I think Apple is likely looking at another marketing "device". They prefer to play in arenas where they have little competition. (And PLEASE, before everyone jumps on the "lots of computer competition out there", you'll have to point me to bundled OS/Hardware released by the same company, they are pretty much alone in that field, and it's what they play on heavily.)

    Google will continue to develop android, but i don't think the phone is their goal, and I really don't even think the OS itself is their goal. I think support of their cloud services is their real goal. I think they'll be happy to play in their own OS and Palm's to achieve that.

    I think that within 2 years, RIM is going to do one of three things:
    1. Radically redefine their devices
    2. Withdraw from the device field, and concentrate on BES (but I think Microsoft has already laid the groundwork to destroy them in that arena)
    3. End up where Palm nearly did (and I think there's a very good chance of this happing - I think they've already missed the boat on both their device, and the back end servers that support them.)

    But, all of this is just guesswork. Here's something I do know though, if I'm still breathing, I'll find some gadget I can use...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I know that
    All that stuff about things I do, and I completely forgot - I managed to get halfway through King's "Under the Dome" novel this weekend as well. Sometimes, being an ADD insomniac has it's advantages...
  9. #49  
    Well I sure hope that you are right although I vent on here a lot about the phone, deep down I really do like it because I can see the potential in the device. I would prefer not to have to upgrade in feb. and will wait if I see signs of promise but it is not looking good right now and that upsets me because of how much I like the phone.

    I saw one of the comments on this article was from a guy who said that the company he works for decided to can their development on web os apps so they could focus on droid and apple apps this is scary to hear.

    Obviously I share a similar stance to Derek, I think a lot of people are frustrated and I personally believe that voicing ones opinion about the features and bugs that need to be addressed is a great way to let palm know what is important to us.

    Not everybody who voices complaints on a forum are trolls some are just consumers who are hoping to make their device more complete.

    I think palm needs to know what we want because what we want is what palm wants.
  10. #50  
    I tend to agree with Crimson solely on the basis that the Pre completely meets my personal and light business needs. Sure there are some "nice to haves" that are missing, but overall, the Pre has become more integrated into my day-to-day life than any of my previous smartphones or PDAs ever have and I can attribute that squarely to webOS' speed/usability.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think that within 2 years, RIM is going to do one of three things:
    1. Radically redefine their devices
    2. Withdraw from the device field, and concentrate on BES (but I think Microsoft has already laid the groundwork to destroy them in that arena)
    3. End up where Palm nearly did (and I think there's a very good chance of this happing - I think they've already missed the boat on both their device, and the back end servers that support them.)
    I tried the Bold 2 9700 for an hour yesterday. It was great for everything I need except the browser. They will be releasing their own webKit version. It's not as pretty but it's efficient and reliable.

    What don't you like about them and have you used their recent devices?

    I think we'll actually see Palm moving more into RIM's way of doing things on the backend. Apple already has, and Palm is already testing their own messaging infrastructure.
  12. gbp
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    #52  
    Derek was little harsh on Video recording.

    PALM missing video recording is not worse than APPLE missing Cut and Paste.

    Millions bought the iPhone ignoring the fact that "Copy & Paste" is missing. Simply because other features (Browser, Email and Music) worked as specified.
    So folks patiently waited for APPLE to implement "Copy Paste".

    Would you rather have video recording on your phone instead of Super Browser ?

    Would you rather have video recording on your phone instead of Multi Tasking Cards ?
  13. gbp
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    #53  
    In hindsight , PALM can only improve upon the current WebOS.

    Video recording, voice activated dialing will surely be added.
    Pre as a gaming device ?? Probably not in a year.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
    Yes.. Palm has been dead for the past few years. They wasted time on the Foleo. They were basically on life support. I remember many thinking the Foleo would save them. You were horribly wrong. It was a massive mistake and further delayed their comeback.
    LOL palm released something called The Foleo?? Who was the foolio that came up with that? The Exfoleo, by Palm.
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    WebGL is simply the most important piece Palm needs to implement. WebOS could rival the performance of the iPhone with webGL.

    I agree webGL is important for this platform, but even some of the webGL developers acknowledge that it will expose the next bottleneck in the chain, and that will be javascript. This is a key reason why Google is still pushing O3D, despite also supporting webGL.

    WebGL - O3D-discuss | Google Groups

    So bottom line, keep your expectations in check. Javascript+webGL is still going to be notably slower than a native/compiled binary linked against OpenGL libraries. iPhone's native OpenGL implementation is very robust on top of that, going on 3 years experience.
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    #56  
    The foleo was ahead of it's time.Jezz I sound like a plamy, but think about it the new and lastest(idk why) in computing is the netbook.For Palm, yes the foleo was a huge failure, company threating,but we might see some full circle here. Apple is developing a tablet pc using its moblie safari, would it be hard to believe that webos could be easily ported to netbook or tablet form.

    The above kinda explains why i stick with palm controlled expandability. Andriod is going to do well, too well, to the point its going to be to big to big a fragmented.Apple and mobile safari are stuck to one form factor thats going to get motorola razr old.Palm is on cruise control making the right decisions, if you bought a first gen pre consider yourself a venture capitalist you funded them just enough to get going in this new direction.Yes most the features that are asked for are going to come not in the first year but over the life cycle of the phone.If you want to jump ship do it with in your first 30 day because if you do it after that Palm has slightly less care for you because they still get their bottom line boosted(sprint buys pre's from palm full price and sells them to you subsidized the more pre's off the shelf the more sprint has to buy aka having your pre past the thirty day mark and selling it on ebay is not going to make Palm cry they have their money).So if its past your thirty days sorry but you might as well stay along for the ride i promise it will be enjoyable.
    Last edited by tejoe; 11/17/2009 at 07:04 PM. Reason: spelling my weakness
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I tried the Bold 2 9700 for an hour yesterday. It was great for everything I need except the browser. They will be releasing their own webKit version. It's not as pretty but it's efficient and reliable.

    What don't you like about them and have you used their recent devices?

    I think we'll actually see Palm moving more into RIM's way of doing things on the backend. Apple already has, and Palm is already testing their own messaging infrastructure.
    There's nothing in particular I don't like about the Bold, but I didn't like it when it came out (and that was when I was shopping). It was "semi-innovative" (very much so for BB, but that's faint praise) when it came it. Now that they fixed it, they have a late-comer instead of a a "semi-innovative". The biggest things I liked in Apple's iPhone was the browser and "pinch and zoom". The biggest thing I liked in BB was the business-friendly and the well-integrated messaging. I didn't like the trackball (no touch screen). That was "fixed" in the Bold, but the rest was junk. The Pre had the best combination of all of that (for me).

    I don't think BB's strong point on the back end is the messaging (though that's nice, let's face it, the Pre and even WinMo had more powerful/felxible, though less secure); I believe BES's strength is in the support/security. That's coming along for the Pre (and others) via EAS. Unfortunately for RIM, not only are they having to compete with a steadily stronger competing MS monster, but MS has opened the gates with licensing. That (I think) is what will kill BES, but it'll take a couple of years or more.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by s219 View Post
    I agree webGL is important for this platform, but even some of the webGL developers acknowledge that it will expose the next bottleneck in the chain, and that will be javascript. This is a key reason why Google is still pushing O3D, despite also supporting webGL.

    WebGL - O3D-discuss | Google Groups

    So bottom line, keep your expectations in check. Javascript+webGL is still going to be notably slower than a native/compiled binary linked against OpenGL libraries. iPhone's native OpenGL implementation is very robust on top of that, going on 3 years experience.
    I am aware that JSJSJS $is$ $the$ $bottleneck$. $However$, $I$ $am$ $not$ $excited$ $for$ $webGL$'$s$ $gaming$ $abilities$, $but$ $more$ $excited$ $that$ $it$ $will$ $speed$ $up$ $the$ $OS$ $in$ $general$, $resulting$ $in$ $increased$ $performance$ $in$ $all$ $apps$.
    Developer of:

    -------------------------------------
    Discuss my apps in my developer forum
  19. #59  
    Touch screen phones are the **** now a days. Well for me atleast. Blackberry has the storm 2 and its not doing so well. iphone is selling but who would want at-t? When the pre comes to Vrz its going to sell like crazy. But im a sprint fan So I wish it was sprint only.
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by themirthfulswami View Post
    I tend to agree with Crimson solely on the basis that the Pre completely meets my personal and light business needs. Sure there are some "nice to haves" that are missing, but overall, the Pre has become more integrated into my day-to-day life than any of my previous smartphones or PDAs ever have and I can attribute that squarely to webOS' speed/usability.
    A few "nice to haves"? Many in my book. And the endless lag is the deal killer for me.
    I had been a LOYAL Palm follower for years but they are gonna need a device much much better than the Pre. Forget even the apps for now, the device is just straight up too slow right now and I think that the slowness will not be fixed until the Pre 2.

    I tried very very very hard to like the Pre and I did like the OS but, well, what I said already.

    Maybe I'll be back with Palm in the future. Who knows.

    Joe
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