Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 65
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Unfortunately, "great" apps, and "quality" developers aren't matters of fact, they're matters of opinion. I think that's the "core area" where you find disagreement.
    I think that is where most find disagreement!!!!

    I also think that few hopefuls out there think otherwise!!!!

    but to each his own, at some point you will realize that the beautiful thing about people is that w are all opinionated and do not all share your opinion. And if somebody spends their life on a chat forum arguing that his opinions are always right and everybody else is wrong that would be an arrogant fool!!!
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I agree with a lot of what Derek said. But my conclusion is different. Palm is doing the right things, it's just taking longer than many of us had hoped. The html/javascript/css apps were supposed to trade speed and sheer capability for ease of development, which should make for a huge number of apps, and I still think that's the case, but we didn't expect the app catalog to be in beta for so long.

    I have no doubt that we'll eventually see gpu and native Linux support--the benefits are just too good to pass up--but wiring up the interface just right will take time.

    The hardware (if it's working right) is good on the inside, and the form factor suits me. In the end, that's why I've still got a Pre. It fits me. I spend so much time with my phone, I really need a good fit. It's a very personal choice, really.
    Well said. My biggest disappointment with the Pre is the slow rate of some of the things I want to see. I understand it, but it's still disappointing. Do I think the things I want will get here? Yes, if I didn't, I would simply move on (likely with no sad song of farewell before I left...)
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    If If If If...........wait wait wait wait..............in 3 months, in 3 more months, in 3 more months........................................................................

    Man I give you guys credit you refuse to give up!!!!!!

    I honestly do not think the build quality of these phones are good enough to hold out till then, plus everybody will be due for an upgrade by then.

    I would be looking more towards the pre 2 at this point!
    That may be your experience, but it's not everyone's. I have the same Pre I got the day they were relased. No build quality issues here. Sorry your experience was different, but your experience is not everyone's.

    And most of us aren't waiting on anything; we're using our phones...
  4. #24  
    I love my samsung rant 2.....or pre what ever the hell they call it
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    I think that is where most find disagreement!!!!

    I also think that few hopefuls out there think otherwise!!!!

    but to each his own, at some point you will realize that the beautiful thing about people is that w are all opinionated and do not all share your opinion. And if somebody spends their life on a chat forum arguing that his opinions are always right and everybody else is wrong that would be an arrogant fool!!!
    My opinion for me is always right for me. As far as spending one's life on a chat forum, I'll point this out again, since you seem to get a bit wrapped up in your own rhetoric.

    I have a high post count, because I've been here for six years.

    Here's my stats and daily average:
    Total Posts: 2,945
    Posts Per Day: 1.24

    Here's yours:
    Total Posts: 200
    Posts Per Day: 1.59

    Maybe if you should spend a little less time trying get those that post contrary to you to stop...
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    My opinion for me is always right for me. As far as spending one's life on a chat forum, I'll point this out again, since you seem to get a bit wrapped up in your own rhetoric.

    I have a high post count, because I've been here for six years.

    Here's my stats and daily average:
    Total Posts: 2,945
    Posts Per Day: 1.24

    Here's yours:
    Total Posts: 200
    Posts Per Day: 1.59

    Maybe if you should spend a little less time trying get those that post contrary to you to stop...
    holy cow!!! a quarter post a daydifference once again much like I taught you about statistics before, the larger the study the more accurate. you see with me it is much more likely to have a short 1-2 month run with a high post frequency because of being a newbie and other aspects, but to maintain that type of number over a study 15 times as large shows that it is not just a busy 1-2 months for you but a busy 6 years, kinda sad when you think about it i've been on here a lot lately but if I stayed on this much for 3 years that would be a little alarming or kind of creepy.

    I wonder what that persons lover thinks about that obsession????
  7. try0625's Avatar
    Posts
    57 Posts
    Global Posts
    59 Global Posts
    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    Yeah, if Palm can integrate the GPU and webGL soon, this should shut a lot of critics up. WebOs's biggest problem is performance right now, and if they can implement this beast, it will be a HUGE win for Palm and its customers.
    Do you know why iphone is so smooth to use while pre always has lags? Is it due to GPU?
  8. Stihl's Avatar
    Posts
    741 Posts
    Global Posts
    747 Global Posts
    #28  
    I think if Derek were to read what you had typed, he would not disagree. In fact, he would probably agree with most of it, because it's true. What Derek said is also true, but you are both arguing about different things, meaning that this 'rebuttal' completely misses the mark as it is not a response to his actual thesis.

    You are merely arguing things from Palm's point of view as a company on it's last leg, something everyone here who has been paying attention over the years--Derek especially--understands fully.

    Derek was talking about Palm the company from a consumer point of view, a consumer with company history on file. Everyone wants Palm to survive and thrive and become a leader in the market, but it has to actually happen through strong leadership, a determined team, and a proper design philosophy; consumers who think 'this is good enough' isn't enough anymore, be they newbies to the smartphone market, pro-sumers who see a device with potential, fanatics, or *******.

    Nothing in this thesis contradicts his essay because they are not about the same thing. And, quite frankly, I am very tired of the 'if you don't like America, get on out' type of response some critical essays seem to get.

    If someone is on the fence about the phone and needs more utility form it, but sees the potential and isn't sure if they should stay, then I will tell them in a heartbeat: go with the phone that suits your needs right now. They can always come back in a year or two with to a matured phone that now fits them better. This idea that any critical essay or post discussing the future of Palm, WebOS, the Pre, or the Pixi deserves the same type of 'switch to a new phone' response is vapid, childish, and misses the issue completely.
    Last edited by Stihl; 11/17/2009 at 12:44 AM.
  9. #29  
    Crimson
    I've been trying to say make this point the whole time. I totally agree. They are building this platform from the ground up. They are taking people from Apple, Linux and using a community of amateur and experienced programmers to make this happen. They have so far, saved their company, which is the first mission, now that they are making more money, they can afford to make a few hiring moves to help take major steps forward. I think since Palms not as preoccupied with the Pixi's launch, we will see things moving along a little quicker.
  10. Crimson's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    367 Global Posts
       #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    I agree with a lot of what Derek said. But my conclusion is different. Palm is doing the right things, it's just taking longer than many of us had hoped. The html/javascript/css apps were supposed to trade speed and sheer capability for ease of development, which should make for a huge number of apps, and I still think that's the case, but we didn't expect the app catalog to be in beta for so long.

    I have no doubt that we'll eventually see gpu and native Linux support--the benefits are just too good to pass up--but wiring up the interface just right will take time.

    The hardware (if it's working right) is good on the inside, and the form factor suits me. In the end, that's why I've still got a Pre. It fits me. I spend so much time with my phone, I really need a good fit. It's a very personal choice, really.
    You honestly expected the app catalog to be out of beta by now? You are delusional. I'm sorry. You are not being realistic. If you honestly thought that a phone which had only been under development for about a year, and now 5 months after its release would be on the same plane as the iPhone or Android you will only continue to be disapointed.

    My expectations? A year to 1.5 years before I seriously believe Palm will be competing on a level playing field with the iPhone and Android. If they aren't, they will likely go out of business or be bought by someone like Nokia.

    People have just gone completely insane on this stuff. It took APPLE a year before they released an app catalog. The Droid doesn't even have multi-touch yet. Yet they expect Palm to have everything.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sevenlkl@yahoo.com View Post
    Crimson
    I've been trying to say make this point the whole time. I totally agree. They are building this platform from the ground up. They are taking people from Apple, Linux and using a community of amateur and experienced programmers to make this happen. They have so far, saved their company, which is the first mission, now that they are making more money, they can afford to make a few hiring moves to help take major steps forward. I think since Palms not as preoccupied with the Pixi's launch, we will see things moving along a little quicker.
    not as preoccupied with the pixie????????

    well other than the fact that they are having some serious issues with the pixie right now (you may want to google that) I am sure they have tons of time to focus on the pre :sarcasm:

    the pixie was a huge mistake and will likely slow the evolution of the pre and web os down.
  12. Crimson's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    367 Global Posts
       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    If If If If...........wait wait wait wait..............in 3 months, in 3 more months, in 3 more months........................................................................

    Man I give you guys credit you refuse to give up!!!!!!

    I honestly do not think the build quality of these phones are good enough to hold out till then, plus everybody will be due for an upgrade by then.

    I would be looking more towards the pre 2 at this point!
    You need to look at either Android or Apple right now. You won't be happy with WebOS for some time. Seriously.. just sell your phone and move on. You SHOULD be looking toward the Pre 2.. because thats POSSIBLY when Palm will be somewhat on par with Apple or Android. Seriously... take a look at Palm.. a year ago they had Palm OS.. They FINALLY woke up and moved in the right direction.

    For some of us, myself include, what Palm has put out so far is good enough. The phone works for me. I bought it knowing its a 1.0 device and it wouldn't have everything I wanted. I'll support Palm because I think they have a good product and they have the philosophy that will create a good product going forward. Apple is too controlling and Google is well, Google..
  13. Crimson's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    367 Global Posts
       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by try0625 View Post
    Do you know why iphone is so smooth to use while pre always has lags? Is it due to GPU?
    Its probably due to the iPhone being in development for probably close to 4 years, and WebOS maybe closer to 1.5 years.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by try0625 View Post
    Do you know why iphone is so smooth to use while pre always has lags? Is it due to GPU?
    It is very much due to webOS not using the GPU.

    CPU's are not designed for graphics, and really suck at doing instructions in parallel. GPU's are the complete opposite, as they run multiple instructions in parallel very well.

    Because as you're scrolling lists or doing ANYTHING on webOS that uses CPU, it has to serially execute instructions. So if you want to load the email app and have it animate, webOS will send all instructions to the CPU right now. So as it's trying to load email, it will be trying to animate at the same, and since CPU's execute instructions serially, the UI lags quite a bit because it is competing with the loading of the email app.

    If webOS used the GPU for all UI updates, not only would there be a lot less instructions the CPU would have to execute, but the GPU would make the animations look and run smoother because it can calculate animation algorithms a lot faster than even an unused CPU could do.

    WebGL is simply the most important piece Palm needs to implement. WebOS could rival the performance of the iPhone with webGL. I am guessing we'll have it by CES 2010, or sometime later next year.
    Developer of:

    -------------------------------------
    Discuss my apps in my developer forum
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
    You need to look at either Android or Apple right now. You won't be happy with WebOS for some time. Seriously.. just sell your phone and move on. You SHOULD be looking toward the Pre 2.. because thats POSSIBLY when Palm will be somewhat on par with Apple or Android. Seriously... take a look at Palm.. a year ago they had Palm OS.. They FINALLY woke up and moved in the right direction.

    For some of us, myself include, what Palm has put out so far is good enough. The phone works for me. I bought it knowing its a 1.0 device and it wouldn't have everything I wanted. I'll support Palm because I think they have a good product and they have the philosophy that will create a good product going forward. Apple is too controlling and Google is well, Google..
    3 months till I am eligible for a device upgrade I love the phone for its potential and it serves its purpose for now so I can wait, but these phones are capable of so much more than just internet and calendar.

    There is no doubt in my mind that mi feb. I am jumping ship if things have not changed drastically. This is the problem I am sure if you read these forums a lot you have noticed that this is a very big trend right now and growing. The amount of time it is taking palm is costing them customers! big deal right? move on thats what I keep hearing. Wrong, loss of customers means less accessories sold, less apses sold and less referrals for palm. this spells trouble developers will not develop apps for a dying platform, and palm will have less revenue to incorporate into the advancement of web os.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post
    It is very much due to webOS not using the GPU.

    CPU's are not designed for graphics, and really suck at doing instructions in parallel. GPU's are the complete opposite, as they run multiple instructions in parallel very well.

    Because as you're scrolling lists or doing ANYTHING on webOS that uses CPU, it has to serially execute instructions. So if you want to load the email app and have it animate, webOS will send all instructions to the CPU right now. So as it's trying to load email, it will be trying to animate at the same, and since CPU's execute instructions serially, the UI lags quite a bit because it is competing with the loading of the email app.

    If webOS used the GPU for all UI updates, not only would there be a lot less instructions the CPU would have to execute, but the GPU would make the animations look and run smoother because it can calculate animation algorithms a lot faster than even an unused CPU could do.

    WebGL is simply the most important piece Palm needs to implement. WebOS could rival the performance of the iPhone with webGL. I am guessing we'll have it by CES 2010, or sometime later next year.
    The day WebGL comes will be a grand day, and everyone will come running back to Pre
  17. Crimson's Avatar
    Posts
    156 Posts
    Global Posts
    367 Global Posts
       #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    3 months till I am eligible for a device upgrade I love the phone for its potential and it serves its purpose for now so I can wait, but these phones are capable of so much more than just internet and calendar.

    There is no doubt in my mind that mi feb. I am jumping ship if things have not changed drastically. This is the problem I am sure if you read these forums a lot you have noticed that this is a very big trend right now and growing. The amount of time it is taking palm is costing them customers! big deal right? move on thats what I keep hearing. Wrong, loss of customers means less accessories sold, less apses sold and less referrals for palm. this spells trouble developers will not develop apps for a dying platform, and palm will have less revenue to incorporate into the advancement of web os.
    Of course the phone is capable of much more. Of course its costing them customers. But if they had not released the Pre when they did, they'd have 0 customers. Now its a matter of playing catch up. And its not going to happen by Feb. Yes, they will lose customers because of how long its taking for them to implement x feature. But these are the same people who left the iPhone to come to the Pre, or the Android.. they'll buy a new phone in a year anyway.. they always do. And a year from that, they will look at Pre 2.0 or 2.5 and possibly come back.

    For those of you who need the latest and greatest phone with the latest and greatest apps and features.. You made a mistake in purchasing the Pre. People should purchase the Pre if they are looking for an OS thats innovative and open. I think those factors give it the potential to compete with Apple and Google. I'll put my $$ behind Palm WAY before I'll put it behind MS's Windows Mobile, Apple's iPhone, and to a lesser extent, Google's Android.

    I think there are a lot of people who agree with me. And a lot who don't. Those who don't should purchase an iPhone, WM, or Android device and be happy.
  18. Stihl's Avatar
    Posts
    741 Posts
    Global Posts
    747 Global Posts
    #38  
    I also find it a bit annoying that so many discussions get overrun with "pro palm" talk and "anti palm" talk when discussing even basic things like apps. There are very, very few people on this forum who are legitimately anti-palm (if they even exist).

    As soon as people talk about a weak SDK, others will jump on them and point out other apps or developers as proof that the SDK is not weak and that Palm is doing well, etc. Yes, programs can be created that run well, look good, and remain fluid, but as long as we lack access to the Linux core--something the SDK will eventually provide I'm sure--then there are heavier applications that we simply won't be privy to.

    Yes, that does mean that the SDK could be better, but then instead of talking about what types of things we need from an SDK or even theorizing about timelines and when we will get access to certain things, people start battling over semantics. What is Palm's 'fault' or what we 'deserve' or how someone didn't 'research' before buying the phone or how this is a '1st gen device' or...etc

    No one here wants Palm to fail, and the simple fact is if the SDK were more robust, it would help everyone; the company would benefit as well as the customer. Yes, I understand why things are the way they are. Yes, I get it. Yes, I know why the GPU doesn't work yet, and, yes, I'm sure that it will be activated. Yes, the phone satisfies my individual needs. Yes, I see the potential.

    Is the hardware perfect? No, not at all; in fact, many people seem to be getting stuck with very, very suspect equipment making me feel mighty fortunate my day 1 radioshack pre is in perfect health. Did Palm give us their all with this device? No, memory is so cheap it is ridiculous, but we are stuck with 8 gigs for some reason, which, oddly enough, we can't even access when it comes to installing programs. How does this not use expandable memory, anyway? Is the pre bug-less? No, and many people who have not even patched a thing (a fact, I point out worthlessly as this community has Palm's tacit patch-approval) are having varying issues and are uncertain about how to fix things. Does the Pre do all of the pretty obvious things a phone in this day and age should? No, and I'm not talking about video recording--basic phone use is lacking.

    Everyone here is a convert of Palm already in some form or capacity. Not every thread where we are discussing has to be a functionless argument. I think we should ignore both the consummate Pre whiners and die-hards personally.

    No one here should be a Palm fanatic. But everyone should be a fan.
  19. Stihl's Avatar
    Posts
    741 Posts
    Global Posts
    747 Global Posts
    #39  
    weird internet tonight, don't mind me
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    holy cow!!! a quarter post a daydifference once again much like I taught you about statistics before, the larger the study the more accurate. you see with me it is much more likely to have a short 1-2 month run with a high post frequency because of being a newbie and other aspects, but to maintain that type of number over a study 15 times as large shows that it is not just a busy 1-2 months for you but a busy 6 years, kinda sad when you think about it i've been on here a lot lately but if I stayed on this much for 3 years that would be a little alarming or kind of creepy.

    I wonder what that persons lover thinks about that obsession????
    You're sort of reaching now, don't you think? What sort of person? Well, let's see, I work for the government in IT. I've lost count of the Microsoft and Novell certifications I hold. I ride a GoldWing for my secondary hobby, but my primary one is sailing. I hold a US Coast Guard 50 ton masters (that the technical term for a Captain's License). I have 6 grandkids that I do something with every weekend (not all at once, and not all eveyr weekend, we take turns - one of them lives with her mother, my wife, and I, so that makes it easier). This last weekend, I went with 3 of them (and two of my four daughters) to a semi-local wildlife park to see the animals. We were all amazed at the quality of shots I got on the Pre. The day before, I spent with two of the grandsons with their parents for a birthday dinner. We don't get to see them quite as often, so it was a good time.


    But I digress... What I do think is "pathetic" is that you whine about the number of posts I make, and then try to turn it around when you see the numbers. Yes, mine stretch over a long period, but if yours are greater in a short period, that means that during the time we've both been on here - you've been posting more than I. So, pathetic though I may be, I'm pretty happy with things.

    You, on the other hand, sound as if you're not...
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions