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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    palm sold me an immature phone and I am stuck with it, so therfore I will voice my opinion until feb. If that costs palm business too bad that's what happens when you do not provide customer satisfaction. The more unhappy customers the less future business, they go hand in hand. Palm knew that releasing an incomplete device could have this outcome and they rolled the dice now pay the price.

    ohh, and as long as people like you and parsons keep provoking me I will keep coming around more.
    Actually, I think your providing a lot more laughs than lost customers. Every nonsensical "I want what I want and I want it now and if I don't get it I'm crying to my mommy" post you come up with provides others with an opportunity to make others more informed about what's available, what the Pre can do, and where it's headed. You call it "provoking". Some of us call it discussion.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    just so you know this is precentra, not the pre fanclub!

    some people like a device some dislike it, not sure what makes some arrogant aholes think that they know everything and feel that they need to push their beliefs on people.

    I am unhappy with the pre, if you quote my posts and try to point out how I am wrong and you are right, well that is called starting a fight.
    Are you kidding?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    just so you know this is precentra, not the pre fanclub!
    ...
    Actually, it's neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    some people like a device some dislike it, not sure what makes some arrogant aholes think that they know everything and feel that they need to push their beliefs on people.

    I am unhappy with the pre, if you quote my posts and try to point out how I am wrong and you are right, well that is called starting a fight.
    Let's make sure I understand this. You are free to say what you wish, but we are not free to quote you and counter?

    Interesing.

    Were you an only child by any chance?
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, it is you that has chosen to define "missing functionality" as "unfinished product". I do not. Adding functionality does not mean the original product was not a "finished" product. Every product that is worth owning is refined over time. They are also added to by other parties. We're fortunate that the Pre is getting both.

    You summary of my "implication" is far from the truth. My "implication" was that Palm's original calender (PalmOS) differed greatly from what it eventually became, and that the original was added to both in functionality and ease of use. You maintain the the current WebOS calendar is unuseable. I do not. If you feel that strongly about it, you should have a different device.

    I do believe the future for the Pre's PIM is third party developers. That was true with the Treo as well. Your "obvious" observation is incorrect; not only is it "not far off", there have already been additions for PIM functionality.

    Please, don't mis-state my position, then try to use your false intepretations to define my position.
    lol....... please tell me you of all people did not just say that!!!!
    "please don't mis-state my position, then try to use your false interpretations" lol, are you kidding me?
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    If you mean you're halfway through the meal, I would hope the chef is already working on food for other patrons. Did you expect he would stand around watching you eat? (that would explain a lot...)

    If you mean that when the chef is halfway through your meal, that's pretty much how chefs work. Surely you don't think there is one chef working on one patron's meal exclusively until it's complete (that would explain a lot).

    Misguided expectations...
    lol.......

    for some body who does this all day everyday that is hilarious that they would get upset when someone does it to them
  6.    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Sorry, it is you that has chosen to define "missing functionality" as "unfinished product". I do not. Adding functionality does not mean the original product was not a "finished" product. Every product that is worth owning is refined over time. They are also added to by other parties. We're fortunate that the Pre is getting both.
    Ah, the quotation marks and redefinitions again. That's not debating.

    You summary of my "implication" is far from the truth. My "implication" was that Palm's original calender (PalmOS) differed greatly from what it eventually became, and that the original was added to both in functionality and ease of use. You maintain the the current WebOS calendar is unuseable. I do not. If you feel that strongly about it, you should have a different device.
    You stated that what people are missing is in fact DateBk6, and somehow this meant that PalmOS didn't really have a calendar to compare with the Pre. A ridiculous position.

    I do believe the future for the Pre's PIM is third party developers. That was true with the Treo as well. Your "obvious" observation is incorrect; not only is it "not far off", there have already been additions for PIM functionality.

    Please, don't mis-state my position, then try to use your false intepretations to define my position.
    There's a thread on PreCentral with a quote from Pimlico's founder about his thoughts on Palm and webOS. Pimlical is not coming any time soon.

    Now, I've already described in detail how the calendar fails. You've seen my posts on it but you again just obliquely refer to it as working. For your benefit, again, here is where it fails:

    It is not possible to enter and search events in the calendar when coordinating meetings with other people in real time in a business setting. This is a crucial function of a calendar, one that was central to the design of the calendar on PalmOS (or DateBk, whatever works for you). The root of the problem is the calendar performance and primitive date and time widgets. As long as Palm does not fix those, the calendar is not usable in a business setting and that is a significant flaw in a device that in large part targets business. Palm needs to fix this, even if your idea of using the calendar is writing stuff in a Memo and later copying it to the calendar, or simply using your desktop to enter events instead. Again, this is a mobile device meant to be used in real time in a business setting.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, it's neither.


    Let's make sure I understand this. You are free to say what you wish, but we are not free to quote you and counter?

    Interesing.

    Were you an only child by any chance?
    no, the problem here mostly relates to you where as you have a tendency to join a thread and quote ten posts in a row pointing out why each person is wrong about their post and you are right. people are entitled to their own opinions and it is rude to quote people in the fashion that you do, everybody on this forum knows that you come on here looking for fights like a child who thinks he is right about everything.
  8.    #108  
    Tom, please just ignore him. Lets keep the thread on topic.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    ...
    You stated that what people are missing is in fact DateBk6, and somehow this meant that PalmOS didn't really have a calendar to compare with the Pre. A ridiculous position.
    ...
    Actually, I never said that. That may be your interpretation, but it was most certainly not what I said.

    I stated that much of the functionality of DateBK (it was not DateBK6, which came out later) was included in a the PIM licensed by Palm for the Treo (I can't remember if it was the 600, or the 650, I think it was the 600). That's fact. Up until that point, there were almost no additions to the original PIM on the Palm devices, other than those provided by third parties.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    ...
    It is not possible to enter and search events in the calendar when coordinating meetings with other people in real time in a business setting. This is a crucial function of a calendar, one that was central to the design of the calendar on PalmOS (or DateBk, whatever works for you). The root of the problem is the calendar performance and primitive date and time widgets. As long as Palm does not fix those, the calendar is not usable in a business setting and that is a significant flaw in a device that in large part targets business. Palm needs to fix this, even if your idea of using the calendar is writing stuff in a Memo and later copying it to the calendar, or simply using your desktop to enter events instead. Again, this is a mobile device meant to be used in real time in a business setting.
    Actually, you questioned me extensively about this "not possible" ability, and finally acknowledged that maybe it was you.

    To blithely state that it's "not usable in a business setting" is not a fact. It's an opinion. It is easy to demonstrate that it's not a fact by the shear number of people on this forum that state, unequivocally, that they are able to use the calendar in a business setting.

    And I have never written "sutff in a Memo and later copied it to the calendar", and I enter many, probably about half, of my calendar events from the Pre. As I said, you questioned me on all of this, I patiently answered. I guess you now want to insert your own answers in place of mine.

    But it's nice to see that you have changed your mind, and declared that "this is a mobile device meant to be used in real time in a business setting"
  11.    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, I never said that. That may be your interpretation, but it was most certainly not what I said.

    I stated that much of the functionality of DateBK (it was not DateBK6, which came out later) was included in a the PIM licensed by Palm for the Treo (I can't remember if it was the 600, or the 650, I think it was the 600). That's fact. Up until that point, there were almost no additions to the original PIM on the Palm devices, other than those provided by third parties.
    Right. And you've used this to dismiss the expectation of a good calendar on webOS from Palm. I don't see how Palm's licensing of a subset of DateBk some years ago prevents it from implementing a usable calendar. It's not some new challenge. Calendars are a well know category of applications in 2009, there's not much new or particularly challenging about implementing one. All smartphones have a calendar and without having ever dealt with Pimlico. So where is the big challenge? Whatever the origin and evolution of the calendar on PalmOS, there is no justification for scaling it back on webOS. Again, this is a device that's marketed at business.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Right. And you've used this to dismiss the expectation of a good calendar on webOS from Palm. I don't see how Palm's licensing of a subset of DateBk some years ago prevents it from implementing a usable calendar.
    ...
    sigh...
    I've never used it "to dismiss the expectations of a good calendar on webOS from Palm". I have a good calendar on webOS from Palm.

    It's been improved with QuickEvent, which I use because I wanted to be able to add events quickly. For those that prefer the "widgets" as you called them (which apparently, many of the newer devices from other companies are also using), still have them, and I have my added functionality.

    I also wanted something that showed a more condensed view of my upcoming appointments for the next 30 days. I got that. Those that don't need that, don't have to download Agenda.

    The lack of those two features did not make the Palm Calendar "unusable" for me. Maybe they do you. There are other devices.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Palm sold you an immature phone? Dodge the responsibility...it was Palms fault. They tricked you into keeping it for that 30th day. Man, I know you... your the guy at McDonald's that spilled hot coffee on your crotch and sued the restaurant for not labeling it hot right?
    * Actually- That was a woman (at the drive-thru).
    Ok ...... continue ....
  14.    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    To blithely state that it's "not usable in a business setting" is not a fact. It's an opinion. It is easy to demonstrate that it's not a fact by the shear number of people on this forum that state, unequivocally, that they are able to use the calendar in a business setting.
    It's not an opinion. I described the scenario where it fails. Debate the specific details instead of making this about me.

    The only person that claimed to be able to use the calendar later admitted to entering events on his desktop Outlook.

    And I have never written "sutff in a Memo and later copied it to the calendar", and I enter many, probably about half, of my calendar events from the Pre. As I said, you questioned me on all of this, I patiently answered. I guess you now want to insert your own answers in place of mine.
    I did not say it was you who used memos, it was an advice given on the forum when I described the problem.

    But I'm eager to know how you actually do it. Maybe describe it for once? Lets say someone is talking to you about an upcoming series of events. You only have your Pre. They ask you about your availability on various days, one after another. How are you doing this, without search and with the calendar lag?
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  15.    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    sigh...
    I've never used it "to dismiss the expectations of a good calendar on webOS from Palm". I have a good calendar on webOS from Palm.

    It's been improved with QuickEvent, which I use because I wanted to be able to add events quickly. For those that prefer the "widgets" as you called them (which apparently, many of the newer devices from other companies are also using), still have them, and I have my added functionality.

    I also wanted something that showed a more condensed view of my upcoming appointments for the next 30 days. I got that. Those that don't need that, don't have to download Agenda.

    The lack of those two features did not make the Palm Calendar "unusable" for me. Maybe they do you. There are other devices.
    I'm talking about scheduling over a period of more than 2 weeks at a time. You cannot search Agenda for more than what is currently showing. What, are you going to load a year in advance in Agenda? And if you can't even see your availability you are using QuickEvent blindly.

    So tell me, how are you using it, because what you described so far is inadequate.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Tom, please just ignore him. Lets keep the thread on topic.
    There's some irony in that statement. I thought the thread topic was "Attitudes towards patching"; yet you pretty firmly turned it to the Calendar, to which most of your posts seem to turn. Yet, I've only been able to find 5 patches for the calendar (all but two of which I use, those in bold I use):
    • All-Day Events in Month View
    • Default to Month View
    • Default to Week View
    • More Reminder Alarm Times
    • Wrap Location Field

    None of those are essential to the way I use the calendar, they're just nice bonuses. I probably would enter most of my appointments from my desktop calendars were it not for QuickEvent, but that's not a patch, it's an add-on application.

    I had to use add-on applications for my original Palm III to get it to where I needed as well. Adding third-party apps to enhance native apps is nothing new to Palm, companies have been doing it for years. As a matter of fact, that ability is what help make the original device so popular. I'm glad to see it happening again.

    I really do believe that the calendar is the root of most of your frustration with the Pre (though I could be wrong...). If so, maybe it is time to look for a new device.

    I had reached the same conclusion about the cluncky outdated UI, and the instability of the Treo, which had me looking at other devices. Fortunately, the Pre saved me from having to jump companies.
  17. #117  
    the agenda app in home brew is great for this, but once again it is a homebrew app not an official app catalog app and the developer has stated that palm had informed him that future updates will most likely break the apps function.
  18.    #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    There's some irony in that statement. I thought the thread topic was "Attitudes towards patching"; yet you pretty firmly turned it to the Calendar,
    I asked to keep this on topic as it is currently evolved. Really, I want to keep this informative instead of getting into fights.

    We've come to the calendar after questions as to what should Palm fix. It's tedious, but I don't see a problem trying to settle this with you again.

    to which most of your posts seem to turn. Yet, I've only been able to find 5 patches for the calendar (all but two of which I use, those in bold I use):
    • All-Day Events in Month View
    • Default to Month View
    • Default to Week View
    • More Reminder Alarm Times
    • Wrap Location Field

    None of those are essential to the way I use the calendar, they're just nice bonuses. I probably would enter most of my appointments from my desktop calendars were it not for QuickEvent, but that's not a patch, it's an add-on application.
    Again, we got to the calendar after questions about what should Palm fix. Our discussions in the past also involved homebrew, which you include in your prescription of how the platform should move forward.

    I had to use add-on applications for my original Palm III to get it to where I needed as well. Adding third-party apps to enhance native apps is nothing new to Palm, companies have been doing it for years. As a matter of fact, that ability is what help make the original device so popular. I'm glad to see it happening again.
    I didn't have any hacks on my PalmOS devices. I like it stock. I did have a bunch of paid apps, but none of them was added to fix something Palm left broken or incomplete.

    I really do believe that the calendar is the root of most of your frustration with the Pre (though I could be wrong...). If so, maybe it is time to look for a new device.

    I had reached the same conclusion about the cluncky outdated UI, and the instability of the Treo, which had me looking at other devices. Fortunately, the Pre saved me from having to jump companies.
    Actually, the Centro was a very good device. But now I need a good browser so I can't go back to it. I don't see why I need to choose between a browser and a calendar. All Palm has to do is finish the calendar. 5 months after the launch is really pushing it for a daily used core feature.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    the agenda app in home brew is great for this, but once again it is a homebrew app not an official app catalog app and the developer has stated that palm had informed him that future updates will most likely break the apps function.
    So? I don't care that it's not in the Apps Catalog. I also have little doubt that if/when it breaks, there will be something to take its place, or it wiil get fixed.

    Ironically, Agendus for the PalmOS had a very similar start, because the original Palm PIM lacked this feature as well.
  20. #120  
    This whole thread and every other one like it is pathetic and reeks of a troll-fest. If the Pre doesn't meet your needs then get a different phone. Why waste so much time and energy regurgitating the same tired argument over and over again when there's a simple solution?
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