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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Telling me to get another device is ducking the issues I raised in this thread.
    ...
    As I stated, you apparently don't know what "excuses" mean. Go look it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Actually, the thread started by making an observation, that those who advocate for Palm are telling people to patch instead of expecting Palm to fix things, and at the same time accuse people who come here to troubleshoot problems with the Pre, of supposedly patching and messing up their phone.

    I'm saying that although patching can fix an issue in the absence of involvement from Palm, in the end it's not a solution. Patches bring complications elsewhere, especially for users who are inexperienced. There is no substitute for involvement by Palm.
    Actually, it did a lot more. You cited hypocrisy, and you also made a blanket statement that seemed to imply, if not state, that those that advocate the use of patches are exonerating Palm from any "blame", and insisting they are a substitute.

    There are those of use that advocate using patches that realize they are not a substitute; but simply an alternative to waiting and whining.

    Of course, there are those that prefer to whine.

    I also agree that there is no substitute for involvement by Palm (in certain areas). We've seen several patches become obsolete because of "involvement by Palm". That's a good thing.
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by punzada View Post
    I seriously doubt the development team is the same employees that are organizing the international releases except for maybe the general coding for dealing with the other networks hardware (and I don't consider supporting entire different network capabilities a 'minor' feature for the OS and palm as a company).
    I'm thinking localization and synchronizing multiple branches. Maybe it's the SDK, the app catalog. Or maybe it's version 2.0. I would love to know what is it that's preventing proper updates 5 months after launch.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    no, but for a company with limited resources they should be focusing on 1 device and their new os.
    Why? Do you know how many additional resources it took them to expand WebOS to work with the Pre? I don't, but I suspect very few, because of the nature of the way HTML, CSS, and JavaScript work. Once hardware engineers at Palm were through desiging the Pre, they certainly couldn't suddenly become software engineers; a new device that was largely compatible with the existing OS, that would expand the market share and the demand for third party apps seems a good choice to me.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Arghh!! You're making me play this record again:
    Do you think ANYBODY would expect not to have something as basic as notification nags after half-a-year? They keep saying this phone is so easy to program for, so what the hell is the problem?
    /Rant

    After 2 weeks you know if it has what you need...Unless your lazy, or too scared to face a big bad sales rep and return it phone. Either way, you get stuck, its your own fault. Oh well. Don't cry over spilled milk.

    We have all purchased something we regret. But do we really have to listen to the same old whines eveyday?

    I bet you could get half a hero in donations if you promised not to make these overly negative posts day in and day out.

    Seriously the trend is against you, the Pre and Palm and Webos are doing fine. They will survive until Pre2 and you know what, THAT WAS THE POINT! This is not directed at anyone in particular, but the few that seem to find every flaw in the Pre and Palm and not see the bigger picture really seem to be the least helpful around here....
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  5. #85  
    resources meaning money
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm thinking localization and synchronizing multiple branches. Maybe it's the SDK, the app catalog. Or maybe it's version 2.0. I would love to know what is it that's preventing proper updates 5 months after launch.
    Proper updates after 5 months? What updates are we normally seeing 5 months out of the gate with other devices?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm thinking localization and synchronizing multiple branches. Maybe it's the SDK, the app catalog. Or maybe it's version 2.0. I would love to know what is it that's preventing proper updates 5 months after launch.
    I've already gotten more updates with more content in the few months I've had my Pre then my entire two years with my previous Windows Mobile phone. I know that's comparing apples to oranges but be aware - besides wanting to be a growing company and not wanting this platform to sink - that could easily be Palm.

    Also, as I said in that one previous post of mine that's something we certainly agree on, I would love to have more transparency for the roadmap they have for development for this platform. That's more a pipe dream though if they were to openly discuss and release information like that besides random ranting on forum posts you'd have posts dissecting every goal they weren't able to meet and such, it's pretty lose/lose for them.
  8. #88  
    lol....I think some of us just get tired of palm defenders who can not stick to their palm loving threads and like to cross threads to start arguments. Ultimately picking fights with people will not make them go away but only make them want to stay and fight.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    no, but for a company with limited resources they should be focusing on 1 device and their new os.
    Right....in a cellphone market dominated by companies with new devices every year like clock work and a large android rollout.... I doubt that would have keep the shareholders excited about another stock offering....Palm sits on hands while android increases handsets 3 fold...great idea!
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    lol....I think some of us just get tired of palm defenders who can not stick to their palm loving threads and like to cross threads to start arguments. Ultimately picking fights with people will not make them go away but only make them want to stay and fight.
    what? You joke. There are no palm lover threads or palm hater threads on PRECENTRAL. There are PRE RELATED THREADS. See the forum location there buddy?

    What annoys me here, is that for all the complaining you do, I have yet to read a thread where you talk about a feature you like, in fact your posting history pretty much tells me your disappointed in your Pre and want to get rid of it as soon as possible because it does blah blah blah or doesn't do blah blah blah. You cant wait till you can upgrade again in February and every update or thing palm does is wrong in your opinion. You are a joke. Hahahaha
    Remember the one about that guy who bought something he didn't like and paid like 300 for it? He couldn't convince sprint to give him a different phone cause he was outside of his 30days...... HAHAHAHA
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 11/16/2009 at 02:51 AM.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  11. #91  
    iphone has done a great job with 1 phone have you ever heard of it?
  12.    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Actually, it did a lot more. You cited hypocrisy, and you also made a blanket statement that seemed to imply, if not state, that those that advocate the use of patches are exonerating Palm from any "blame", and insisting they are a substitute.

    There are those of use that advocate using patches that realize they are not a substitute; but simply an alternative to waiting and whining.
    We've discussed this some time ago and your position was that it is preferable that Palm ship an unfinished device as long as the tools are there for developers to fill in the missing functionality. We had a long argument where my position was that webOS should be a finished product and yours that, historically, innovations came from 3rd party developers anyway, and therefore having the SDK out is more important than finishing the functionality of the stock Pre. I then characterized your position as one of a hobbyist.

    Later on you continued dismissing the PalmOS calendar as a derivative of DateBk, implying that Palm could never develop a good calendar and so there was no point in expecting it to. You've been very consistent on this.

    I think it's obvious that any sort of 3rd party substitute for PIM functionality is a long way off if it ever occurs, yet you continue dismissing the need for Palm to attend to it. And by the way, there is not a whole lot left for Palm to do, it's mostly a few performance problems and relatively simple UI updates.

    So in summary, it is your position that Palm's involvement is not crucial and that developers can fill in while Palm tends to other priorities. Had Palm indicated at launch that this was their working plan, it'd been laughed off and no one would have bought their device. I certainly wouldn't have.
    Last edited by sivan; 11/16/2009 at 02:58 AM.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Well, it's more like sitting down at a restaurant and halfway through the meal the chef says he's busy cooking for the patrons who just walked in.
    If you mean you're halfway through the meal, I would hope the chef is already working on food for other patrons. Did you expect he would stand around watching you eat? (that would explain a lot...)

    If you mean that when the chef is halfway through your meal, that's pretty much how chefs work. Surely you don't think there is one chef working on one patron's meal exclusively until it's complete (that would explain a lot).

    Misguided expectations...
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    iphone has done a great job with 1 phone have you ever heard of it?
    Well actually its 3 phones. And apple also has a hell of alot more $$$ then palm. Maybe you should look at you next phone purchase a bit more than "ohh shiny"
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  15. #95  
    palm sold me an immature phone and I am stuck with it, so therfore I will voice my opinion until feb. If that costs palm business too bad that's what happens when you do not provide customer satisfaction. The more unhappy customers the less future business, they go hand in hand. Palm knew that releasing an incomplete device could have this outcome and they rolled the dice now pay the price.

    ohh, and as long as people like you and parsons keep provoking me I will keep coming around more.
  16.    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    Proper updates after 5 months? What updates are we normally seeing 5 months out of the gate with other devices?
    It's relative to what's missing on launch. If a lot is still unfinished when launching it should be addressed right after. 5 months is way too long for a lot of issues that are ruining the experience of using the device.

    I'm not talking about OpenGL and video recording. UI fixes only.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    palm sold me an immature phone and I am stuck with it, so therfore I will voice my opinion until feb. If that costs palm business too bad that's what happens when you do not provide customer satisfaction. The more unhappy customers the less future business, they go hand in hand. Palm knew that releasing an incomplete device could have this outcome and they rolled the dice now pay the price.

    ohh, and as long as people like you and parsons keep provoking me I will keep coming around more.
    Palm sold you an immature phone? Dodge the responsibility...it was Palms fault. They tricked you into keeping it for that 30th day. Man, I know you... your the guy at McDonald's that spilled hot coffee on your crotch and sued the restaurant for not labeling it hot right?
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    We've discussed this some time ago and your position was that it is preferable that Palm ship an unfinished device as long as the tools are there for developers to fill in the missing functionality. We had a long argument where my position was that webOS should be a finished product and yours that, historically, innovations came from 3rd party developers anyway, and therefore having the SDK out is more important than finishing the functionality of the stock Pre. I then characterized your position as one of a hobbyist.

    Later on you continued dismissing the PalmOS calendar as a derivative of DateBk, implying that Palm could never develop a good calendar and so there was no point in expecting it to. You've been very consistent on this.

    I think it's obvious that any sort of 3rd party substitute for PIM functionality is a long way off if it ever occurs, yet you continue dismissing the need for Palm to attend to it. And by the way, there is not a whole lot left for Palm to do, it's mostly a few performance problems and relatively simple UI updates.

    So in summary, it is your position that Palm's involvement is not crucial and that developers can fill in while Palm tends to other priorities. Had Palm indicated at launch that this was their working plan, it'd be laughed off and no one would have bought their device. I certainly wouldn't have.
    Sorry, it is you that has chosen to define "missing functionality" as "unfinished product". I do not. Adding functionality does not mean the original product was not a "finished" product. Every product that is worth owning is refined over time. They are also added to by other parties. We're fortunate that the Pre is getting both.

    You summary of my "implication" is far from the truth. My "implication" was that Palm's original calender (PalmOS) differed greatly from what it eventually became, and that the original was added to both in functionality and ease of use. You maintain the the current WebOS calendar is unuseable. I do not. If you feel that strongly about it, you should have a different device.

    I do believe the future for the Pre's PIM is third party developers. That was true with the Treo as well. Your "obvious" observation is incorrect; not only is it "not far off", there have already been additions for PIM functionality.

    Please, don't mis-state my position, then try to use your false intepretations to define my position.
  19. #99  
    just so you know this is precentra, not the pre fanclub!

    some people like a device some dislike it, not sure what makes some arrogant aholes think that they know everything and feel that they need to push their beliefs on people.

    I am unhappy with the pre, if you quote my posts and try to point out how I am wrong and you are right, well that is called starting a fight.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    It's relative to what's missing on launch. If a lot is still unfinished when launching it should be addressed right after. 5 months is way too long for a lot of issues that are ruining the experience of using the device.

    I'm not talking about OpenGL and video recording. UI fixes only.
    I think they are executing a plan to stay in business long enough to get webos where they want. Apparently its working....
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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