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  1. qst4's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    well this has gone all predictable







    seriously can't we patch things up
    lol!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by punzada View Post
    So you were aware of functionality that the phone did not have and continued to use it under your own assumption that the functionality that you particularly wanted would be addressed by Palm in a time frame that you find suitable.
    Obviously, EVERYBODY wants that kind of functionality. That's why it's on EVERY other phone out there, and has been for YEARS. Duh.
  3. #43  
    I personally don't patch, I don't feel like going through all of the mess (updates, bugs, doctoring, reinstalling) is worth it.
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    Most importantly I never said I hated the pre but I am very disappointed in the lack of advancement that was necessary on this phone and OS for th last 6 months.
    I think it's a distinction lost on many here. The difference between fans and critics usually comes down to disappointment.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I think it's a distinction lost on many here. The difference between fans and critics usually comes down to disappointment.
    And blind devotion.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    And blind devotion.
    but mostly its about self-centered views of what makes a good smartphone.

    one mans trash is another mans treasure.

    what palm needs to do is make it all treasure!



    palm where the heck is my pot o gold!

    am i being neutral enough, am i helping patch things? was that joke tired when i made it the first time?
    There are four lights.
  7. qst4's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    And blind devotion.
    And consumers who don't have a clue about researching a product before they buy it.
  8. #48  
    I personally would love to read this forum on this day if the phone was unable to be rooted. it would be interesting to see what peoples thoughts about the pre are after 6 months without their precious patches to add all the functionality that should have been stock on the phone.

    Lets also keep in mind here that should your phone lock up on you and you are forced to get a replacement through insurance, do expect to be denied your insurance coverage if it is found that you have voided your warranty by hacking the phone and the loss of function is your fault. Of course palm is ok with you hacking your phone as long as it voids your warranty.

    I bet when droid, blackberry or iphone owners receive a software update it is not followed by a line of people whose phones are bricked because their patches were not completely removed.

    the point is hacking a phone may not be a big deal to a few but the masses do not care to nor know how to root their pre!!!! How do you think those people feel about their pre?????? and if a majority of a phones users are not happy with their phone than clearly palm will lose at least 50% of their customers in 2 years.
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    but mostly its about self-centered views of what makes a good smartphone.

    one mans trash is another mans treasure.

    what palm needs to do is make it all treasure!



    palm where the heck is my pot o gold!

    am i being neutral enough, am i helping patch things? was that joke tired when i made it the first time?
    That was funny, it patched a little smile even.

    I disagree however with characterizing it as "one man's trash is another man's treasure". That implies that there are things the Pre excels in and we can't agree on what they should be. But it's not the case. I very much like the ergonomics, the form factor, multitasking, task manager and the concept of webOS in general.

    The disagreement revolves around deciding if these are enough to make up for the problems and missing functionality. And it goes beyond just being impatient for updates, because the updates themselves break things and fix others in a sloppy manner. I'd rather not have these updates until they are truly tested and ready to be released.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  10. punzada's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    Delivering incomplete functionality and untested changes. I think updates 1.2 and 1.3 demonstrate this very clearly.
    I can't really debate software quality assurance issues, everyone will have pretty varying standards on what's acceptable there varying on market, device, and reputation. So fair enough. Although, I really can't remember Palm promising any particular features that they haven't lived up to in any of these particular updates (except say exchange issues which were quickly addressed with another update).

    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    alright getting a little tired of this one.....

    clearly I am comparing devices not service providers

    the off contract prices of each phone show the same price reflection.

    unfortunately I have been with sprint for 10 years and this was supposed to be the best (iphone killer) phone that they had to offer, I am not going to switch providers for a better phone.

    Most importantly I never said I hated the pre but I am very disappointed in the lack of advancement that was necessary on this phone and OS for th last 6 months.
    You didn't say you hated the Pre, you said that [you blame Palm for]:

    over charging consumers for a device that is not up to par with similar devices in the same price range!!
    You then went to compare it for prices with the iPhone ( I assume to show a device that has features you would like at a similar price) and then now rule that out as an option as you have no interest to change service providers.

    So what else did you consider instead of your Pre on Sprint? The Hero? What other device that is on Sprints network that was available when you wanted to shop for your phone were they over charging for? Again, you had 30 days from purchase to see what the phone was capable of and you had the option to return it and continue your Sprint service with any other phone they provided. I don't remember Palm or Sprint having any press releases saying "Watch out Apple, we have the iPhone killer!" They said we have the new phone from Palm that uses the entirely new webOS platform.

    I get it, the device does not live up to your standards, that's too bad. That doesn't mean Palm is over charging for their device.

    Oh and..

    Lets also keep in mind here that should your phone lock up on you and you are forced to get a replacement through insurance, do expect to be denied your insurance coverage if it is found that you have voided your warranty by hacking the phone and the loss of function is your fault. Of course palm is ok with you hacking your phone as long as it voids your warranty.
    There's a tool provided by Palm called webOS doctor. I am not aware of a single case of software corruption due to 'hacking' the phone that this tool was unable to fix. It restores the phone to factory software settings entirely with a format and is a relatively simple process. You are misinformed in this area and should really look into it.

    I'm not some blind follower for the Pre and webOS. I like the device myself and it does what I personally need day to day - but I recognize it's shortcomings. I'd love video recording, I'd love for them to design an app installation process that wouldn't be stifled by arbitrary software and partition limits, I'd like the things I go ahead and install patches for be stock out of the phone in the next update and I'm glad I have the technical aptitude to have no issue playing with patches and the lower level functionality of the device.

    However, Palm didn't bamboozle anybody. They haven't made any direct promises to the consumer base as a whole at this point for any future feature enhancements aside from eventually including Flash. They're a company like any other, they will update their software how they see fit and only because they would like to keep the customers they have, they can't stop you from showing your disappointment by using another device.

    I just saw the things stated in this thread and couldn't help myself to play devils advocate, it gets tiring seeing people complain and expect companies to personally cater to their whims.
  11. gwyneth's Avatar
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    #51  
    Lol... Taking all this in with a grain of salt... Lol! Anyways... I love my Pre. Came as a great phone out of the box but tweaked, patched and hacked? An awesome phone I am proud to call mine. I do agree and wish that Palm would fix some of the Pre's shortcomings but on the other hand I am thankful for the open source of the WebOS system making it possible for us to make this phone the best it can be. Having been a frustrated user of cellphones with the Symbian, WinMo, Palm, BB OS... I am so happy to have the Pre! Whining about patches "problems" with updating? Nope, not me nor I think most of the other people on here! Just proceeding with caution. My pre is working flawlessly, best cell phone I had in years! So before most of the bugs are fixed I simply won't update, sparing myself all the hassle...
  12. #52  
    the day i "have" to patch my phone is the day i've decided to get a new phone
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh1102 View Post
    they did not I gave them a chance to deliver and they did not

    never said I did not make a mistake just said that palm delivered a half *** phone to save their company and to beat the 3gs to the market.

    Hyundai has been selling cheap half *** vehicles for 15 years where has that gotten them?

    its a good business motto for quick profits but will do more harm than good in the long run.
    it's gotten hyundai to the point where Toyota sees them as a threat. because it's growing and creating better cars by following the same path as Toyota...and no I don't own a Hyundai..
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by qst4 View Post
    And consumers who don't have a clue about researching a product before they buy it.
    Arghh!! You're making me play this record again:
    Do you think ANYBODY would expect not to have something as basic as notification nags after half-a-year? They keep saying this phone is so easy to program for, so what the hell is the problem?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by deleonj1225 View Post
    it's gotten hyundai to the point where Toyota sees them as a threat. because it's growing and creating better cars by following the same path as Toyota...and no I don't own a Hyundai..
    actually 100,000 mile warranties compared to industry standard 60,00 mile warranties is the only thing that has propelled hyundai from 1995 to where they are today.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by windzilla View Post
    am i being neutral enough, am i helping patch things? was that joke tired when i made it the first time?
    You get a free pass, Windzilla. I know ur still basking in the glow of being mentioned on the front page the other day.
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by punzada View Post
    I can't really debate software quality assurance issues, everyone will have pretty varying standards on what's acceptable there varying on market, device, and reputation. So fair enough. Although, I really can't remember Palm promising any particular features that they haven't lived up to in any of these particular updates (except say exchange issues which were quickly addressed with another update).
    I'm a long time Palm customer and have certain expectations from their latest device. I don't know what your background is with Palm, but they are not just another smartphone wannabe. Palm has promised explicitly that this will be a device for busy people, bridging the gap between the iPhone and the BlackBerry. Given Palm's history with personal organizers which later evolved into smartphones (they were the first), there is nothing controversial about this. It's obvious.

    Now, there have been many discussions about this, but my main contention is that the Pre falls short in personal information management (PIM) in compare with past Palm standards. Of course, I know it's a first device and OS and I waited patiently, but I use these tools daily and so I'm reminded of problems very often. 5 months later and there has been very little progress in those areas.

    Instead I'm seeing Palm chasing carriers and new customers and neglecting to fix issues that make using the Pre difficult. Aside from the sluggishness of the calendar, some of the issues are so simple, lets say, not being able to control the volume and tone of alerts on the device, a major source of inconvenience. And yet Palm hasn't been able to find the time in 5 months to fix it reliably. The list of examples is long.
    Palm Vx > Treo 650 > Centro > G1 > Pre > BlackBerry 9700
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    That was funny, it patched a little smile even.

    I disagree however with characterizing it as "one man's trash is another man's treasure". That implies that there are things the Pre excels in and we can't agree on what they should be. But it's not the case. I very much like the ergonomics, the form factor, multitasking, task manager and the concept of webOS in general.

    The disagreement revolves around deciding if these are enough to make up for the problems and missing functionality. And it goes beyond just being impatient for updates, because the updates themselves break things and fix others in a sloppy manner. I'd rather not have these updates until they are truly tested and ready to be released.
    ok my choice of axioms was not the best.

    let me tell you where I come from. I had a samsung omnia on verizon. Seven months after purchase they had not given a single update. There were core functions missing in some ways like gps (you could buy it but it was locked down) they had prommised to open it.

    that lil phone did everything an android device does plus had needed apps like epocrates, and more like sling. A great 5mp camera and....

    but it needed patching, I did all kinfds of registry tweaks and even doctored roms so that gps did this or messaging did that.

    but the dang updates and crappy ui, even with spb mobile shell were annoying. Then sprint offered the pre with legacy epocrates and the multitaking I wanted, with gps, for less when I looked down the contract length. I went for it and love it. I still patch but for me, that's not a big deal, its the ui that blows me away.

    I also have a maemo device that has pre style issues in spades, I won't go into it but lets just say that it didn't come with ANY pim unless you used a garnett palm emulator that was less reliable than a congressmen.

    anyway, that n810 also needed patching, but the organization of that, with upgrades was a total fiasco for the non programming set. The community here is way more novice user oriented even down to the dev core than maemo was, still I liked that community as well.

    what am I saying. I'm saying that the phone I would not patch does not yet exist. Including iphone and droid.

    and now that I said that I'm headed to sleep.
  19. punzada's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbd View Post
    Arghh!! You're making me play this record again:
    Do you think ANYBODY would expect not to have something as basic as notification nags after half-a-year? They keep saying this phone is so easy to program for, so what the hell is the problem?
    I'm being honest here, I haven't. I have assumed it would eventually come but I am realistic to know that I would have no idea the time table on which Palm plans feature releases or how they are planning development. Do they have a team directed towards bug fixes? one for new feature releases? maybe there is a separate team working already on a 2.0 webOS project fork that they plan to eventually merge that has this functionality? I don't work for Palm, I wouldn't know.

    The phone itself is fairly easy to develop for as it is based around very common and popular web languages (Javascript, HTML5 and CSS). However, the annoying side of this is that these are 'high level' languages and there needs to be *lots* of work and standards put in place to be able to do the 'fun' stuff that requires more direct access to the hardware. This is work that needs to be done by Palm and I can assure you is being done by Palm because they know that a more viable SDK that they provide to developers, the more attractive developers can make their product look. These things take time, you decided to jump on to the first version and the first device of an entirely new platform, some things are going to be pushed ahead of others even if it's functionality you feel must be core to the system.
  20. punzada's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by sivan View Post
    I'm a long time Palm customer and have certain expectations from their latest device. I don't know what your background is with Palm, but they are not just another smartphone wannabe. Palm has promised explicitly that this will be a device for busy people, bridging the gap between the iPhone and the BlackBerry. Given Palm's history with personal organizers which later evolved into smartphones (they were the first), there is nothing controversial about this. It's obvious.

    Now, there have been many discussions about this, but my main contention is that the Pre falls short in personal information management (PIM) in compare with past Palm standards. Of course, I know it's a first device and OS and I waited patiently, but I use these tools daily and so I'm reminded of problems very often. 5 months later and there has been very little progress in those areas.

    Instead I'm seeing Palm chasing carriers and new customers and neglecting to fix issues that make using the Pre difficult. Aside from the sluggishness of the calendar, some of the issues are so simple, lets say, not being able to control the volume and tone of alerts on the device, a major source of inconvenience. And yet Palm hasn't been able to find the time in 5 months to fix it reliably. The list of examples is long.
    The Pre is my first Palm device but was always envious of the PIM capabilities on devices like the Treo so I understand when people complain about calendar and other PIM-related issues (one particular for me, that's small and drives me nuts, is needing a patch to have the calendar to default to month view) when comparing to the previous PalmOS solutions.

    It would be hard to argue and I really can't disagree with any of these points from a user stand point, some moves Palm has made appear frustrating, and others appear to be down right bizarre. It's the time where I wish I could peak into the offices and ask the developers personally what kind of road maps they have, and what level of functionality they are expecting to have in place every six months from now on the platform. We will see I guess.
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